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  #151 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
armed & hammered
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I would say anyone who knew this information before reading it in this post, and exactly what Soo said.



Oldschool jungle is the name given to a style of electronic music that incorporates influences from genres including breakbeat hardcore, techno, rare groove and reggae/dub/dancehall. There is significant debate as to whether Jungle is a separate genre from drum and bass as some use the terms interchangeably.

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Subgenres

Subgenres of oldschool jungle include:
  • ragga jungle; more Jamaican-Ragga influenced styles and lyrics (circa 1992-6),
  • darkside jungle; instrumental jungle with a more minimal focus (1994-today),
  • intelligent jungle; a more ambient sound, focusing on mood, synthesis and production methods (1993-today).
The fast tempos (150 to 170 bpm), breakbeats, other heavily syncopated percussive loops, samples and simple synthesized effects makes up the easily recognizable form of Jungle. Producers create the tell-tale drum patterns; sometimes completely off-beat, by cutting apart breakbeats such as the Amen break. Jungle producers incorporated classic Jamaican/Caribbean sound-system culture production-methods. The slower, deep basslines and simple melodies (which are directly descended from dub, reggae and dancehall) accentuated the overall production and hence gave Jungle its 'rolling' quality.
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The term Jungle

While the use of the word to describe what is now known as 'Jungle' music is debatable, the emergence of the term in musical circles can be roughly traced to Jamaican/Caribbean toasting (a pre-cursor to modern MCs), circa 1970. References to 'Jungle', 'Junglists' and 'Jungle music' can be found throughout dub, reggae and dancehall genres from that era up until today.
It has been suggested that the term 'Junglist' was a reference to a person either from a section of Kingston known as 'The Concrete Jungle' or from a different area, 'The Gardens', which was a leafy area colloquially referred to as 'The Jungle'.
The first documented use of the term is within a song featuring Jungle producer and lyricist Rebel MC. In which a sample was taken from a much older dancehall tune containing the lyrics "Rebel got this chant - "'alla the junglists"[1].
At one time there was even some confusion and debate as to whether the use of the word "Jungle" was a racist referral to its apparently blacker, reggae-influenced sound and fans. This seems unlikely as whilst it has been suggested that it was the black youth of Britain who fueled the early Jungle and drum and bass scenes [1]. This was only the reality very early on and is now a racially diverse mix of fans and producers alike.
Some early proponents preferred to define the "Jungle" element as representing the deeper and darker sound of the heavy beats and bass lines, while others saw a connection with tribal drumming, percussion and simplicity.
Producers and DJs of the early 90's; MC 5ive '0, Groove Connection and Kingsley Roast, place the origin of the word in the scene with pioneers like Moose and Danny Jungle.

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The emergence of the Jungle sound

In the summer of 1992, a Thursday night club in London called "Rage" was changing in response to the commercialization of the rave scene (see breakbeat hardcore). Resident DJs Fabio and Grooverider; amongst others, began to take the Hardcore sound of to a new level. The speed of the music increased from 120bpm to 145bpm, whilst more ragga and dancehall elements were brought in and Techno, Disco and House influences were decreased.
Eventually the music became too fast and different to be mixed with more traditional rave music, creating a division with the other popular electronic genres. When it lost the four-on-the-floor beat, and created percussive elements solely from raw, 'chopped up' breakbeats, the old-school ravers would complain that it had "gone all jungle-techno".
The club 'Rage' finally shut its doors in 1993, but the new legion of "Junglists" had evolved, changing dancing styles for the faster music, enjoying the off-beat rhythms and with less reliance on the chemical stimulation of the rave era.
[edit]

Jungle's decline

Jungle reached the peak of its popularity between 1994 and 1995. It was toward the end of this period that the genre diversified into drum and bass as most producers started to incorporate new sounds and rhythms into their music. The co-produced "Timeless" by Goldie and Rob Playford (released on Playford's Moving Shadow record label) is the clearest example of a track from this time period which is not considered Jungle. Showcasing the new wave of high-tech music production tools being created and computer and audio-software possibilities, 1995 ushered in many of the biggest names in drum and bass today. The term 'Jungle' was then used to describe a large range of electronic dance music and so has become too vague to be useful.
[edit]

Jungle today

Today the term "jungle" is mostly used as a synonym for drum and bass (See Jungle vs. drum and bass). There is a dissenting viewpoint which asserts that jungle exists distinctive to drum & bass, despite the progressive changes brought by the interpretations of emerging artists throughout the 90s (some examples being Reprazent, Ed Rush, LTJ Bukem, Goldie and Optical).
There is certainly a thriving underground movement producing and developing tracks in the style of a decade ago and some original (though currently mainstream drum & bass) jungle producers have noticed this new enthusiasm for the original sound. For example Shy FX, creator of "Original Nuttah", has recently launched the Digital Sound Boy label, featuring tracks with the structure and production values of modern drum & bass but with ragga vocals and multiple reggae and old school elements. It should however be noted that ragga vocals and old school elements have always featured in the the works of drum & bass producers and labels, particulary True Playaz. The vast majority of jungle artists at the end of this article could be labelled drum & bass artists and most would not recognize a distinction.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykonee
Tiedye: This scenster clique thing's been going on in music forever. It isn't anything new. However, everyone grows out of it. No one remains a junglist/trancer/b-boy/punk/mod/cowboy/metalhead/swing kid/etc forever. They either expand their musical tastes and adapt a more fluent, casual style where they can fit into a variety of scenes comfortably, or burn-out/move on with their lives.
You're right.. these cliques aren't forever. What I've got to say to that, however, is that they haven't always been so segregated. Take a look at Woodstock, for example. Hippies partying with the Angels, I saw more than one tucked in, button up shirt in the documentary, and I saw many people walking around that you couldn't even classify due to their generic clothing. And I guarantee every person you walked up to at that festival would have looked on you without a shred of animosity. The blues scene, the jazz scene, the folk scene, the early rock and roll scene.. they weren't segregated. You didn't have to be dressed like Jerry Lee Lewis to go see a rock and roll show.

My world isn't dark and grey because nobody considers me a junglist and, truth be told, with the common judgemental outlook most junglists seem to hold, I wouldn't want to be. What does bother me is the fact that out of a room of people all there to enjoy the same music, 80% of the room won't carry a conversation with you because you're not wearing camo, even though you have just as legitimate of a conversation brewing under your skull.

I'm a musician, and I see this kind of hostility wherever I go, whenever I try to meet new people into the kind of music I feel like jamming at the time. It's really hurting the entire music culture. Maybe I just spent too much of my life in a small town where it doesn't affect the music scene at all, because we're all happy to have a new imagination to jam with.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
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Drafted, Soo, C Squared, and anyone else who actually had some intelligent input.. much resepct.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
tiestn vancorstenfold
 
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this post has happened once every 6 months since the loungex days.
We've pretty much had it with responding with intelligent answers.

This is one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen.

Be yourself, dont stick into a lame stereotype.. I can hardly see anyone calling themselves a junglist when they're way older.
Grow the fuck up.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Visit Toronto.

Go to a Show... it's all about people that have the love of the Music.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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The last 2 posts are the best yet!

Who cares what you could be 'classified' as!

House Heads, Trance Addicts, Junglists, BreakBeatFreaks, whatever, we all love the music! So who gives a shit!
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
blau
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiedye
What does bother me is the fact that out of a room of people all there to enjoy the same music, 80% of the room won't carry a conversation with you because you're not wearing camo, even though you have just as legitimate of a conversation brewing under your skull
I have no idea which jungle parties you've been going to but I've never seen that in my years of going to dnb/jungle nights here in vancouver.

What *does* happen is that people in general don't get into too many random conversations with strangers (unless you party with e-tards) but in general that's more of a vancouver thing than any one scene. People are cliquey and snobby here - it's been like that for years. You'll see the same thing happen in most scenes...
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_soo
People are cliquey and snobby here - it's been like that for years. You'll see the same thing happen in most scenes...
Funny you say that.
Ive found the people in vancouver and the party scene out here to be alot nicer and such in that way then any other party scene Ive been to since I came out here!
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppcock
this post has happened once every 6 months since the loungex days.
We've pretty much had it with responding with intelligent answers.

This is one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen.

Be yourself, dont stick into a lame stereotype.. I can hardly see anyone calling themselves a junglist when they're way older.
Grow the fuck up.
This is like the third time I've had to post this. I'm not trying to be a junglist. I was trying to start a conversation about segregation and hostility in music, mostly based around appearance. I just used the jungle scene as an example because it was the scene that happened to come up in the conversation I had. I decided that the only way to get people serious on this conversation would be to just speak specifically about the jungle scene, since there's a large collective of junglists on this site, and then progress to the more general issue.

Considering the fact that you obviously didn't read anything other than the initial post, your post is anything but valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever
Visit Toronto.

Go to a Show... it's all about people that have the love of the Music.
definately planning on checking it out one day. If it's really like that, it's probably the place for me.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
tiestn vancorstenfold
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I like the industrial scene, there are a few puds.. but the majority of them know their music and dont care about who you are. Just as long as you have something interesting to say.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_soo
I have no idea which jungle parties you've been going to but I've never seen that in my years of going to dnb/jungle nights here in vancouver.

What *does* happen is that people in general don't get into too many random conversations with strangers (unless you party with e-tards) but in general that's more of a vancouver thing than any one scene. People are cliquey and snobby here - it's been like that for years. You'll see the same thing happen in most scenes...
Samurai of the Jungle would be an excellent example. I had a conversation with two people. One of which sold me E, the other one came up and actually said "any chance you might actually be interested in meeting someone? everyone else is stuck up here"
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kprojekt
^
^
Actually I noticed the opposite, too many people stand around and talk...then when a killer song comes on they just wave their hand and talk about the track. Too many dj's/producers/promoters not enough dancers
Maybe, I didnt say that isnt how it is. I just find that some areas Ive been are alot worse. But I havent been here that long yet!
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppcock
I like the industrial scene, there are a few puds.. but the majority of them know their music and dont care about who you are. Just as long as you have something interesting to say.
definately making a point of checking it out. I love industrial music, and I like friendly people. Thanks man.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever
Visit Toronto.

Go to a Show... it's all about people that have the love of the Music.
Going to parties in Toronto is actaully what turned me off from DnB for a few years. Wasnt really down with the cracked out thug vibes. Still love the music though. Just wish people wouldnt take themselfs so damn serious.. meh
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
tiestn vancorstenfold
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiedye
This is like the third time I've had to post this. I'm not trying to be a junglist. I was trying to start a conversation about segregation and hostility in music, mostly based around appearance. I just used the jungle scene as an example because it was the scene that happened to come up in the conversation I had. I decided that the only way to get people serious on this conversation would be to just speak specifically about the jungle scene, since there's a large collective of junglists on this site, and then progress to the more general issue.

Considering the fact that you obviously didn't read anything other than the initial post, your post is anything but valid.


I dont have to read anything but the inital post.. everything after it stears into the same old shit.
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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I would say love for the music...It is nothing to do with your personality...how angry you areor what you wear at all...

It is all about love for the music.
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Dubbs
Going to parties in Toronto is actaully what turned me off from DnB for a few years. Wasnt really down with the cracked out thug vibes. Still love the music though. Just wish people wouldnt take themselfs so damn serious.. meh
heh heh depends on where the Party is.

I've been to some really tight little Jams in Brampton that were great fun.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
tiestn vancorstenfold
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiedye
definately making a point of checking it out. I love industrial music, and I like friendly people. Thanks man.
Sanctuary at celebrities every sunday except long weekends, then its at red room or club 23

Blender thursdays at club 23

The bar i work at is having an industrial night this friday, come check it out if ya like.
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppcock
Sanctuary at celebrities every sunday except long weekends, then its at red room or club 23

Blender thursdays at club 23

The bar i work at is having an industrial night this friday, come check it out if ya like.
I won't be in town until Monday, but I'll definately check out the other nights fo sho.
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
blau
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
dj_soo is just really nicedj_soo is just really nicedj_soo is just really nicedj_soo is just really nicedj_soo is just really nicedj_soo is just really nice
hrm, i was at that party (samuari) but was so exhausted that I might have seemed stuck up - (stupid 6am timeslot).

I do agree that the puds in the dnb scene are total elitist puds, but there seem to be puds in every scene.

One of the biggest complaints I've heard about Vancouver from visitors and newly settled transplants from other cities is how unfriendly everyone is here. Not so much that people here are assholes, but more that people are just not very open to meeting new people. I hear tons of complaints on how difficult it is to make friends in this city and how cliquey everyone seems to be. Most of those complaints mirror what you're noticing in the dnb scene so it leads me to believe it's more of an issue with the people in this city rather than just the people in the dnb scene.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever
heh heh depends on where the Party is.

I've been to some really tight little Jams in Brampton that were great fun.
yeah for sure.. i had some good nights as well, i started going out at a bad time for the scene so that probably had more to do with it...

lol first party i went to there was sound clash 3, one of the first things i was told by some random was dont go up front and dont block the dj view, you will get stabbed...lmao ..mkay
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
black swan
 
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I think for me anyways, the need to identify myself with a certain category, eg. "I'm a junglist" dissapated somewhere around age 17 when I left highschool....
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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hahahahahaha lovely!

Sound Clash VI is coming up... might go check it out.
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
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This is one of thoes threads where its gunna go on forever!
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old Jul 24, 06
sup?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_soo
hrm, i was at that party (samuari) but was so exhausted that I might have seemed stuck up - (stupid 6am timeslot).

I do agree that the puds in the dnb scene are total elitist puds, but there seem to be puds in every scene.

One of the biggest complaints I've heard about Vancouver from visitors and newly settled transplants from other cities is how unfriendly everyone is here. Not so much that people here are assholes, but more that people are just not very open to meeting new people. I hear tons of complaints on how difficult it is to make friends in this city and how cliquey everyone seems to be. Most of those complaints mirror what you're noticing in the dnb scene so it leads me to believe it's more of an issue with the people in this city rather than just the people in the dnb scene.
Actually, now that I think about it, you're completely right. I had a hell of a time meeting people in Van. What I noticed is that in such a large place, everyone confines themself to their own little world. Although this problem isn't just a Vancouver issue, I noticed it in Edmonton, Calgary, and Kelowna. Our culture can be as stuck up as they want, but the one thing that always used to tie people together was common interest. It's a shame that's no longer the case.

BTW, what I caught of your set was deadly. You spun with DJ Wood, right? Hip hop, I think?
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