beggers in downtown

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by Harp

Thats the worst thing u can do.Would you rather have them buy more drugs with the money u gave them or have them not starve?

For example one time i saw a man with a sign asking for change and he was standing where u make a left at the lights. So i noticed his sign and made a quick stop to A & W and grabbed him a good sized meal and gave it to him. After i gave it to him he was very appreciative and said thank you with a smile on his face. Sure it took some time out of my day but hey the feeling i got was priceless. That was the first time, but deffinately not the last.

I fidn it so sad that the sterotype of ppl who are homeless are addicts. Vancouver has a very high living cost and for those who require welfare can not pay rent and feed them selfs for what their given. Again alot of them also have mental illness and dont know how to get welfare or rent out or know how to budget their money in a proper manor. What else I realised is ppl who are living on the streets dont have a place to cook or store food and have no choice but to go the expencive way and eat out. It's a terribel cycle that the goverment doesnt seem to realise.

Anyways again you cant asume that most homeless are addicts. There has been a massive increse of homeless ever since the government started taking money out of programs that help them.

Intresting enough... if you were living on the streets and realised that was where you would be the rest of you life... wouldnt you want a drink?pot? smoke? or drugs to numb the pain?

[shortstopmax]

I feel bad when beggers ask me for shit, i dont wanna give them money b.c usually i dnt have that much n it'll just go for thier drugs which is usually the reason thier on the streets..Food would be good to give them..usually I just hand them a smoke. Its makes me pretty fuckinsad thou that theres no where for them to go n shit, I kno we have some places but last night I saw so many homeless people shiiiiieeeeeeet

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by C_squared

all bullshit aside.

I never give homeless people money, most of them come across as pushy and ungreatful once you give them your change. Like I've told homeless people before, there are social services in your community that can give you food and shelter. sheesh.

NO WAY!!! Dude the services in this city/province are terrible. Did you not realise that ever since these services were cut 5-10 years ago that there have been more and more ppl begging for change. Not to mention I beleive welfare has gone down and the cost of living has gone up. HELO GOVERNEMNT?

Originally Posted by whited0ve

^ true, and theyre very willing to give. a lot of homeless only want money though... take the story of my friend i saw on the bus that was homeless. he took full opporunity of the services and worked his way up. that guy was a trooper.

Ppl who are homeless are ppl just like you and me. It's like the US who would hand out food stamps. I think its kind of demining when your forced to buy or live a certian way. Alot of the shelters are run by a church and have stricked curfues and rules. I think it gets to a point were alot of ppl must feel they rather have freedom and live on the streets than do as their told. Very few can tell them selfs that they should stick it out and get it done with first and then go back to a normal life again.

[Digital Over]

I have mixed feelings on this topic....Personally I HATE getting approached asking for spare change, because it's like "Dude I work hard for my cash, sorry but no" and on the other hand, I think it should be up to our government to get more programs started to at least get the ball rolling so they can get throwen back into society a little easier, because ya, it is obvious they need help, so if we had some more social programs available which would be not really forced apon by "Field reps" for the program, but just greatly encouraged; It'd probably greatly improve the problem. It was good to see that the government motion for a agressive panhandler act which would contain some of the problem, not only down town, but almost everywhere in the north part of the city (from like even up to broadway and Alma right as east as Lougheed station).

[ninja]

Originally Posted by C_squared

most of them come across as pushy and ungreatful once you give them your change.

* Throws sandwich *

I asked for a dollar bitch!

[ninja]

Sometimes I will give a bit of money if they're either doing something for it. Like the guy in Gastown who climbs a tree and sings a song of your choice, or this one guy that had a sign that said "I'm saving up for a penis enlargment, I'm a little short". Also the musicians and other street-performers as well sometimes.

[Two_Six]

The stupidest thing I have ever heard, "give them money and they will use it to buy drugs", so let me get this every homless perso on the streets is a addict. Are you high or just stupid? That kind of additude is the problem. Some people are Disabled and have mental illenses and can't manage their own life and especially thier money.

Let me see Welfare pay's people what $500. With that said let me stick you on the street with only $500 and let's see if you can survive. $500 is nothing, its barely enough for rent, then you got to eat.

There are services, yes underfunded services, that don't even care about the people. Try going into a Employment and Assistance center, they treat people like shit there, the government doesn't like handing out money they rather say "no" rather than "yes" to the people that need the help.

I'm sorry but if I was richer I'd try to help as many people as I could, but I'm not made of money. Like I said they can do whatever with the money I give them, I can only hope they don't waste it on drugs, but if they do I can't blame them because it nums their pain. Buying them food is good, but please don't say I made a dumb move by giving a homless person $5 on new year's even when I saw him begging for change at a skytrain station in the rain. I felt so sorry for the poor guy.

[zarlon]

So... instead of coming on here and bitching about it, why don't you get off your lazy ass and volunteer to help with social programs (you know there isn't endless funding) and maybe do something to help the problem instead of beating down the self-perceptions of people who have already lost their dignity?

PS I think I know the answer already.

[Digital Over]

A.)I have no time to volenteer
B.)Not really my thing, so I figure I'd do my part by throwing out some ideas.

[zarlon]

^ that was directed to the OP

[fable]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

jesus now youre just being fucking rude alright? what am i not to have an opinion or say anything??? was I being rude? wtf seriously youre just an asshole. just fucking discussing on a forum but you have to come on here and cut me down. do you get some kind of good feeling from it? what is your problem???

You know, i sincerely feel bad about being rude to you, so i apologise. You dont seem to have a hostile bone in your body, well atleast your hands. But you come of COMPLETELY IGNORANT of everything and anything related to debate, condusive to pinpointing key realites (besides a limited number of specific brief encounters you have had) or even formulating some solutions.

Go back and read your posts. Theres a few isolated negetive experiences which in no way gives anyone an accurate representation of... well...anything. You havent displayed that you have an understanding of what the current situation is, or what it was, nor what it may be.

Ive tried to engage you in the past, i threw out some advice, and even stuck up for you for some time, admist the BCTF debate, and yet YOU still talk like the average politician - gibberish!!

THINK!!

Realistically i wasnt even rude, i was taking a shit out of you. And please note, nothing i said even came close to:

dear god. living downtown is the worst - im confronted by these ppl constantly. Has anyone else noticed that Vancouver smells of rancid urine most of the day?

get off it, you WERENT joking! You just got caught saying something extremely stupid. Now of course you have the right to say any and all stupid comments you want, i aint censoring you, but i will comment.

Your convinved that the reason you and I dont have any intelligent converstation because im always cutting you down, but im more of the opinion that its simply because you havent had anything intelligent to say.

Wrong? Prove it- no, fuck it, you dont have to prove shit to me, i aint shit. Just answer the questions for yourself.

What is your interpretation of the current landscape of homlessness and poverty in the lower mainland? What has the landscape been like over the last decade? Differences? Similarities? Improvements? Regression?

What is your interpretation of some of the causes, and contributors to current homelessness and poverty? What have they been in the past? What policies have had a negetive impact? What policies have had a positive impact?

What is, if any the correlations one can pick out between homelessness and poverty in the lower mainland, and that of the rest of the nation and the world for that matter. What are some themes that become apparent?

Think on it yo.

[whited0ve]

hey, its the punching bag forum. and it was jokingly put. an exaggeration of sorts. i just didnt figure this thread was gonna get so serious.

if youd like one day maybe we could meet over coffee and discuss our viewpoints, or maybe one day ill write a letter to the paper or an essay or something.

for now, punching bag thread, thought id throw in a punch, unknowingly that it would turn out to be so serious. so be it, maybe my sense of humor is whack. meh.
no, i dont support homeless ppl all-the-way. but the first comment was definitely an undetailed, exaggerated point of my view.

[Digital Over]

Originally Posted by zarlon

^ that was directed to the OP

aaah, gotchya....my bad.

------------------

white dove: Good point. re: the purpose of the punching bad forum.

re: posts: Agreed, ya you can't really take peoples posts too seriously, because if everyone took what I say seriously....well, ya, I won't go there. But ya, lets have some respect for other people's opinions, despite your agreement or disagreement.

[fable]

Originally Posted by zarlon

So... instead of coming on here and bitching about it, why don't you get off your lazy ass and volunteer to help with social programs (you know there isn't endless funding) and maybe do something to help the problem instead of beating down the self-perceptions of people who have already lost their dignity?

PS I think I know the answer already.

this makes no sense? Who are you talking too?

[zarlon]

read above post.. directed to the OP!

[souper salad]

tried surfing?

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by charly

i'd much rather have people asking for change, than people asking to sniff my panties.

this made me laugh so fuckin hard hahahaha.

[(val)Liam]

sometimes I'll give my change, when I actually have change to give... I have a personal rule about only giving the change in my pocket, and not in my wallet... what bothers me are the people that get persistant and follow you after you say no... there are many times where I've gone to downtown and have only had busfare left to have to say no to a guy and to start having him/her follow me hassling me... thats when I have to get defensive...

[PsyTrance4Life]

one of the guy on the street ask me for a change. i said "no... sorry"

he was like "don't be"

now i feel bad for not giving him change

[Infidel]

Very interesting thread I just stumbled onto, and I just gotta throw in my 2cents.

1) With regards to the high degree of impoverty amongst aboriginals, I feel it is more then a government problem. The problem is also perperuated by those that run and maintain the reservation system. It is this system that creates a substantial rift between the rich and the poor on the reserves, and after working at a bank near a reservation, I have witnessed this rift first hand and know it exists.

The reservations want to keep more and more familied on the reserves, and they are successfull because they are able to give "free money" and benefits which the government provides. This offers a much better solution to some then leaving the reservation to seek work and give up these benefits. Some hope to maintain the status quo because the more poeple there are on a reservation, and the worst the problem seems, the more they can demand from the government. Some of these families have learned to harness these benefits and have dug themselves out of poverty. They make these benefits work for them to improve their lives, while those that haven't leanred to make the necessary changes to get themselves out of their current state contunue to cash their cheques, and live life like they always have because the cheques will always continue to come. The only solution to this problem is proper education, not just school subjects, but also financial management. Typical example of "if i give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life."

2) Full agreement with the bad decision the government made to cut spending on programs and facilities for the mentally ill. This has cleary made the problem on the streets worst by increasing the number of homeless. Great cost saving move if you're planning on placing a time limit on how long benefits and wellfare can be claimed by homeless and unfourtune peoples. They're liberals dedicated to positive financial results. I wasn't one bit surprised by this move when I heard about it.

3) As mentioned above, government decisions have been based on financial management principles. They reduces these costs in the best short term way possible. The system currently faces a huge drag from a minority within the system who shouldn't be there. Drug addicition and poor upbringing have produced unproductive members of society, and to think we can help them all by giving them cheques or money is a huge mistake. To get someone out of poverty, they must make the choice to get out first (clearly I do not include the mentally ill). Systems of education and support should be put into place to teach people how to get off the street and handle their money, and support must be in place to keep them from reverting back to their previous way of life when roadblocks hit. Anyone who continues to demand something for nothing deserves nothing, and I wouldn't hesitate to leave that person cold and hungry on the street. If you can be productive, be productive or pay the price. Its a harsh view, but those that won't help themselves don't deserve help (personal opinion, bring on the flames).



Money is one of the biggest evils in the world because the lack of it can ruin a life, and the desire for it can drive some to ruin the lives of others. It is clear that life is not easy, especially in Vancouver with the high cost of living, but placing the onus on the general public to provide ineffective services in the form of tax funded social programs that do nothing but temporirly aleviate suffering, but do nothing to solve the problem is the wrong idea. Although this thread was about beggers, the real question should not be if we should give them money or not, but what can we do to make sure someone doesn't replace them 10 years down the road. To give money to a begger is a personal choice, because some obviously need it, while others will abuse it. I am not a politician or a social activist, but a business student, and I know that a short term solution will only lead to larger future problems. To those involved, do your research and look at the root of the problem. Then you can begin to properly understand why a problem exists and begin forming proper opinions on how that problem may be resolved.