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  #151 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
semblence within chaos.
 
Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekim View Post
lol, i've been on more voyages through more mindscapes than you would believe. i've also come to the knowledge that it's just drugs and if you can't reach those realizations that are imparted without the drugs, you're just getting wasted.
Just because you have experience doesn't mean you understand or garner meaning from something. Talking about some of the last surviving oral cultures of indigenous people as "getting wasted" is a bit naive. I'm talking about ceremonial stuff not sitting around in your room staring at blacklights sort of thing.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
total rapture
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
obscure is an unknown quantity at this point
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Originally Posted by decypher View Post
Just because you have experience doesn't mean you understand or garner meaning from something. Talking about some of the last surviving oral cultures of indigenous people as "getting wasted" is a bit naive. I'm talking about ceremonial stuff not sitting around in your room staring at blacklights sort of thing.
sorry to interupt here, but why can't sitting around my room staring at blacklights be ceremonial?
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
semblence within chaos.
 
Join Date: May 2003
decypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the rough
^Well if you have developed a set of rituals that establish meaning by staring at a blacklight then all the better for you. I was mainly using it as an example for what Mekim thinks ceremonies that involve Ibogaine or Ayahuasca equate to. I find it naive to trivialize cultural practices that have been a staple for many historical societies.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
black swan
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
prozac is just really niceprozac is just really niceprozac is just really niceprozac is just really niceprozac is just really niceprozac is just really nice
^who are you to say what someone else "thinks" ?!

(just being a shit disturber and throwing some alternative points in there)
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
taco.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
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it's called ESP!
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
disillusionist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
mekim will become famous soon enough
how does a middle class suburnanite travelling to a third world country on a $1000+ plane ticket to take their drugs equate to the same thing as the shamens of that culture using these same drugs within their ceremonies to better communicate with their gods / elders / etc? where was i trivializing the culture and not simply the outsiders thinking they were part of it?

(heffy still ain't a playa)
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
I'm on the trail!
 
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STOP RUINING PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUALITIES, MEKIM! WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKES.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
disillusionist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
mekim will become famous soon enough
i would appreciate it if the snowflakes falling outside of my house would relocate to whistler/blackcomb, i'm tired of shovelling snow.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by Carrie View Post
it's called ESP!
i get that channel on the Television :)
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
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1up motherfucker
 
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HOLY SHIT NABS SAID SOMETHING FUNNY!
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
black swan
 
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i would appreciate it if the snowflakes falling outside of my house would relocate to whistler/blackcomb, i'm tired of shovelling snow.
cosign.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
I'm on the trail!
 
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i wait in the rain for 30 mins for my bus (1st one never came, 2nd was late), get onto campus, it's snowing, we're told to hand in papers and go home b/c campus is closing.

f you snow, i wanted my 4 hour God class today.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Trying to find a balance
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Page 7 Baby Yea Yea!!!
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
funktastic styles of doom
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Heffy is on a distinguished road
workin on page 8 now! boh!
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Trying to find a balance
 
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B-rizzo is on a distinguished road
Hey at the rate we're going it could be possible to break 10!
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
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This is exciting Heffy way too much, I bet he jerks off to fnk.
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Tacos Rule!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by stabmyhead View Post
This is exciting Heffy way too much, I bet he jerks off to fnk.

I know I do!
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
total rapture
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
obscure is an unknown quantity at this point
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Originally Posted by bias dj View Post
I know I do!
who doesn't?
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Straight Outta Mocash
 
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
semblence within chaos.
 
Join Date: May 2003
decypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the roughdecypher is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekim View Post
how does a middle class suburnanite travelling to a third world country on a $1000+ plane ticket to take their drugs equate to the same thing as the shamens of that culture using these same drugs within their ceremonies to better communicate with their gods / elders / etc? where was i trivializing the culture and not simply the outsiders thinking they were part of it?

(heffy still ain't a playa)

You still don't get it? Someone's status in society has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Shamanism is one of the earliest forms of communication. The Egyptian hierophant, the shaman, they were all specialists who imparted the knowledge they gained from these ceremonies to the community. It influenced art, astronomy and their religious beliefs.

Your attempting to sway the argument away from your trivialization of the practice to trivialization of persons who take part in these ceremonies. The whole area of study is fascinating and certain people make great use of these healing plants that have proved to be beneficial.

The link between the past and present users is the search for something more and the ability to communicate with the self in relation to the singularity. Just because someone is an "outsider" doesn't mean they can't appreciate the practices and go about it in a serious and academic fashion. Some travel half way around the world to eat McDonalds and snap a couple pictures. Some people travel around the world to be apart of something.

Your inability to see the difference between someone who wants a high from mushrooms to watch movies and someone who goes through personal hell to break through the barriers of the mind is the point.

I'm overstepping borders here though. The initial remark by you was obviously an attempt to trivialize something that was important to another person in an effort to make yourself feel better. You use ad hominem statements as an escape wrote from active discussion.

/the end.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekim View Post
how does a middle class suburnanite travelling to a third world country on a $1000+ plane ticket to take their drugs equate to the same thing as the shamens of that culture using these same drugs within their ceremonies to better communicate with their gods / elders / etc? where was i trivializing the culture and not simply the outsiders thinking they were part of it?

(heffy still ain't a playa)
cause it DOSE equate to the same thing.

ive sat in ceremony far up the ucalyi river where i was the only white surrounded by only locals.participated in many andean and quero rites,sat in ceremony with the gaurdian shaman of machu picchu, the only one who is allowed to practice at the site. its taken me two years of hard work and trial and error to seek out and learn from these experinces. and all on my own.things you cant really find in guidebooks.

its not a case of me being a 'outsider' and 'thinking' that i am apart of it. I AM APART OF IT!

i am a student of their traditions and healings. and i will be for the rest of my life.

you indeed are, trivializing the entire culture by your reeking ignorance.

again, i take no personal offence to anything that you say. but you must realize the entire subject gose far beyond your idea of mere shamanic tourisim.

Last edited by Revolver; Jan 18, 07 at 06:37 PM.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
total rapture
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
obscure is an unknown quantity at this point
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funny.
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
Registered User
 
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i always wondered what these shamans in south america must think of all these white bread north american college student types who are searching for some profound truth from a ceremony that isn't even part of their own religion or coulture.

just a thought.
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old Jan 18, 07
I'm on the trail!
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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