Depression from E,,, not just about serotonin.

[Crazy Dave]

Can any one (other then luke, knigel, or close friends) tell me about receptor downgrading, and how it effects you long term?

[Rytalin]

actually I don't think I can tell you about that in too much detail anyways. All I know is that it can/does happen with prolonged use.

research time.
*superhero pose*

POOF
gone

[BenGiovanni]

i can say doing e allot fucks up the receptors, some times burns the them to fuck...either they dont grrow back..and if they do...they come back gibbled as fuck.
Also theres something about the tunnels that the serotonin go though...they shorten up due to the chemical burning up the tunnels due to neurotoxins and just how it all mixes.
i might not be entirely right but most of it is theory and studies put together

[tested01]

pretty much your fuckin yourself up.

[aurora]

Originally posted by Bozga
i can say doing e allot fucks up the receptors, some times burns the them to fuck...either they dont grrow back..and if they do...they come back gibbled as fuck.
Also theres something about the tunnels that the serotonin go though...they shorten up due to the chemical burning up the tunnels due to neurotoxins and just how it all mixes.
i might not be entirely right but most of it is theory and studies put together

I don't know of any studies that have discussed how MDMA 'fucks up the receptors', but hey maybe this is a new type of abstract I'm not aware of, so I'd love to see these studies....

Cause I've read a lot of them, and I haven't read anything about gibbled receptors - I have read about *potential* axon loss in rat studies, but even this is still questionable as to it's legitimacy, permanence or significance. Of course MDMA does have after-effects on the brain - these may include lowered serotonin levels, receptor downregulation, lowered levels of tryptophan hydroxylase - but these are again, temporary changes, not signs of brainfuck.

So, post your sources, and if you would like I'll do the same. I'd love to read any Ricaurte studies you can find. ;)

Dave - Receptor downregulation basically occurs when a lot of synaptic stimulation takes place - receptors recede from the surface of the cell, reducing the potential for activity of those receptors. This is temporary, in rats the recovery period is 3-4 weeks, in humans it would be a bit longer. But to what extent does one suffer receptor downregulation after a single dose of MDMA? It's hard to say, oftentimes receptor downregulation is a result of prolonged exposure to a ligand.

But it could have something to do with depression after E - although it's still serotonin-related - receptor downregulation would mean less serotonin activity could take place. However, I'm not sure as to what extent a normal dose affects receptor downregulation, or if it's more of an issue with these insanity neurotoxic regimens they give rats and primates...

[hardstylin]

^^^ thats what i was gona say :)

[Crazy Dave]

hey aurora, I brought it up because every one talks about pots E-depression being lack of serotonin. I just wanted people to look in to the other big reason.

And yes it general has a large effect and normally lasts longer then serotonn depletion and can not be easily fix by 5htp, and other nutrition supplement that restores serotonin levels.

5htp though helps prevent axon damage and low serotonin levels, it is not a quick fix for all the effects E has on your system.

PS I will not go in to it in detail, but sleeping shortly after an E trip is about the best thing you can do to fight this.

[MissBehavior]

Isn't being able to sleep easily after an E trip a good sign that you haven't done "as much" damage to your brain?

[hardstylin]

^^um i dont know about that but it means you probly did some good E that didnt have any or very much meth in it :)

[mapleleaf4ever]

I read at dancesafe.org that Dopamine sometimes gets inside of Seratonin Axons and gets broken down into Hydrogen Peroxide... not exactly too healthy sounding to me... :toasted:

[aurora]

dave - another super addition to the MDMA regimen is antioxidants. in rats administered high doses of Vitamin C along with high doses of MDMA, one week later, their serotonin levels were the same as control... while the rats administered MDMA without Vitamin C had significantly reduced serotonin levels.

antioxidants during the roll may reduce serotonin depletion or help increase post-e serotonin levels faster. again, this has been shown in rats, so we don't know for sure for humans yet, but I believe it is wise to take vitamin C, E or ALA along with MDMA, it may be helping your brain a LOT in the long run.

MissBehavior - how soon you can sleep after a roll is more linked to the contents of the pill, the dose, your energy state before rolling and any variables that might have an effect on sleep. it's not indicative of brain damage, although it could be indicative of something more than MDMA in a pill, if you're used to sleeping soon after and find you're up for two days on a certain batch of pills.

mapleleaf - although it's quite possible that dopamine plays a role in MDMA neurotoxicity, the dancesafe slideshow is a bit out of date, consider it a theory and not definite fact....
another theory I generally follow is that MDMA neurotoxicity is caused by oxidative damage (free radicals) formed during the experience - again, dopamine may be involved...

[Goat]

Dave: from what i understand it's not so much of a depletion of seretonin in the brain so much as buggering nerve receptors so they don't fire/recieve impulses.

i went to an awesome seminar at Langley Memorial Hospital about long term affects. i have some papers lying around i'll photocopy and send your way.

[Crazy Dave]

All this information about anti-oxidants is about axon damage, NOT about receptor downgrading. And Vitamin-C is shit for an anti-oxidant in a short but strong attack on the neurons with the Peroxide/Dopamine issue. But if it all you got some thing is better then nothing.

One more thing,,, more preloading can infact lead to more depresstion in some people with post-E because with preloading, your cells can release more serotonin incressing the amount your receptors downgrade. In knowing this I would still not advoid pre/post loading, but rather it would be sugested to lower your MDMA does if you feel you must do it any way.

Originally posted by aurora
dave - another super addition to the MDMA regimen is antioxidants. in rats administered high doses of Vitamin C along with high doses of MDMA, one week later, their serotonin levels were the same as control... while the rats administered MDMA without Vitamin C had significantly reduced serotonin levels.

antioxidants during the roll may reduce serotonin depletion or help increase post-e serotonin levels faster. again, this has been shown in rats, so we don't know for sure for humans yet, but I believe it is wise to take vitamin C, E or ALA along with MDMA, it may be helping your brain a LOT in the long run.

[jib monkey]

my prof at ubc was explaining to the class about reserch they did on "ravers", i laughed. she said that there isn't enough information on the long term effects, it's hasn't been studyied long enough.for all we know ppl who popped as kids might be really prone to all kinds of problems as seniors. the good thing though, there is no final statement that e does long term damage. oh the cbc's fifth estate did a pretty good report too...kinda funny though cuz i was hella depressed after the last tab i took..irony