MDMA vs. MDA

[Berta]

hmm i like them both...in the summer i got into doing alot of pure mda instead of e, but i think when it comes down to it i'd pick mdma over it

[Knigel]

“knigel, not to sound like an ass, but you sound as if your withholding a wealth of information. whynot share with others like me whove been through the sites you list and still dont fully understand, other wise maybee crtisicsing info on here without any info of your own isnt the best idea. i know you know what your talking about, so show us.”

***There is a wealth of information everywhere but it’s how it gets processed that makes it useable. One can go through all of those links and more and still know nothing if they cannot process information correctly or cannot filter viable information from corrupt data. I’m personally not a big fan of researching information and then just tossing the data to others. This can lead to a lot of error from being misread, misinterpreted, taken out of context, and misunderstood, etc. I greatly prefer people to learn how to think for themselves instead of just accepting a mentality of taking an easy answer. Critical thought is very important in this process so I’ll go through his posts and make a few pointers using logical fallacy links. Remember if you’re into different substance use and you don’t have critical thought understanding it may be likely that you’ll make a lot of mistakes from believing the wrong information.

These may be useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy


'If you can't explain something to a six year old, you really don't understand it yourself.'
- Albert Einstein

~~~Ask all Questions~~~
~~~Question all Answers~~~
***

OK Rytalin’s Post with some information added to them, I’ll let you come to your own conclusions:

“(yeah I meant methyl group, woops)

Maybe I said it more matter-of-factly than I should have.
I'm basing it on observations of both MDMA, MDA and methamphetamine in my own brain, observations of other people's usage patterns with those substances, and other people's thoughts/observations of the effects mdma, mda, meth and amphetamine have on their brain.
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization ***

A chemist friend of mine confirmed with me what I thought about the methyl group or absence thereof in those substances. *** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority ***

What I've found is that the methyl group seems to add a boxed in, egocentric aspect to the said substances.***What would you make you think that this is a methyl group? Why don’t other chemicals with Methyl groups do the same? What about the theory of the Methyl group Vs. your own constructed perception? Is there any data saying this is the molecule at work besides you just thinking it is for some reason?*** With methamphetamine its sort of a glassy feeling, with MDMA its adds to the super fluffy huggy sorta feeling. (yes I know the seretonin release is the main cause of this)
I suspect the methyl group may also have to do with the heightened OCD sort of effects that MDMA and meth can cause.
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent ***

As far as Amphetamine goes, I've never tried it myself, but I've read lots of literature on it, saying it is alot less psycho than meth.


As for MDMA being more habit forming than MDA, look around. How hard is it to find MDMA at a party, vs MDA? People seem to like MDMA alot more in general.
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur ***
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent ***
***http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope ***

Neither are really all that habit forming, but as for which is more, I would definetly say MDMA. It's alot more convenient. Only a 4 hour high, and it puts you into a seretonin saturated self focused state where you can easily let go of anything that's bugging you. Sounds perfect for the working person, eh?

Habit forming does not always mean bad.”

*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_implies_causation_(logical_f allacy) - Throwing this one in for the correlation of Methamphetamine and MDMA since MDMA in some variants of it’s chemical name portray Methamphetamine, so a fallacy of assuming a similarity is pointed out. The assumption of more then a coincidence can lead to faulty information, specifically if one doesn’t have a further understanding of the subject. This seems to be a common mistake possibly more common in the case of people going to erowid here: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma.shtml and seeing that the chemical name is: (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) failing to go further into the chemical names section here: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma...hemistry.shtml and noticing that MDMA has more variants of name structure such as:

N, alpha-Dimethyl-1,3-benzodioxole-5-ethanamine
3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine
3,4-methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine
methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine
N-methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenylisopropylamine;

MethAmphetamine chemical names include:

(S)-N,a-Dimethylbenzene-ethanamine; d-N-methylamphetamine;
d-deoxyephedrine; d-disoxyephedrine;
1-phenyl-2-methylaminopropane; d-phenylisopropylmethyl-amine

Methyl is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl and can be found in many Organic compounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound and the slightest change in chemistry such as a placement of a molecule greatly influences it’s actions and reactions. Just ask Alexander Shulgin http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/ about his 2C’s and other chemicals and how the slightest tinkering will make one absolutely useless on the human mind while another will throw you into space:
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...l/tihkal.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...l/pihkal.shtml

[Knigel]

After finishing writing this response I noticed someone already asked for all of us, it would have been nice to have found that quick answer before I started writing this post but then it would have been too easy and no fun at all:

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shul.../mdmavmeth.htm.

Dear Dr. Shulgin:
Is MDMA the same as methamphetamine? Is it a type of methamphetamine?
--Michael
Dear Michael:
MDMA is totally different from methamphetamine. It is a compound that is build upon the basic carbon skeleton of methamphetamine (this is the "MA" in the code name), but there has been added to the structure two additional oxygen atoms and another carbon atom. This is the methylenedioxy ring, and this is the "MD" in the name.

The prototypic nucleus for these, and many other structurally related compounds, is the term "amphetamine." This word has
three entirely separate meanings, depending on who is defining it.
To the law enforcement crowd, "amphetamines" are most of the drugs that are entered in the Controlled Substances Act under the heading "stimulants," regardless of their structure or pharmacology.
To the pharmacologists, "amphetamines" are a class of compounds that act on the central nervous system to cause eye-dilation, increased wakefulness and loss of appetite.
To the chemist, "amphetamines" are chemicals that contain the carbon skeleton of alpha-methyl-beta-phenethylamine.
-- Dr. Shulgin

[ebbomega]

Hey knigel, know what would really rule? If you didn't put all those ***s in your links. Thanks.

[Knigel]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Hey knigel, know what would really rule? If you didn't put all those ***s in your links. Thanks.

As I said before I'm not going to give the easy answers to info! :P

[ebbomega]

Y'see, that's not so much being cryptic as it is being an asshole, though.

edit: I see you fixed them. I take that back.

[Rytalin]

Well... after reading some of those links you posted, knigel..... I still stand by my belief that there is SOMETHING up with the methyl group in both mdma and meth.

It must be totally psychological though, cos it doesn't seem there's any research info supporting it. All I have is a bunch of other random people I've talked to who've said they notice it too.

Just remember... just cos CURRENT research shows no link doesn't nessassarily mean there is no link.
I wish I was a scientist/chemist/pharmacologist so I could actually research deeper into it and not have to rely on my own intuition.

[Knigel]

I'm sure in many probable realities you are correct, and I'm sure you were able to prove it in each.

Keep up the good work!



*Runs off to finally prove that Elephants are more habit forming then Ants because there is an E in Elephant and not in Ant*




..wait there are two E's isn't there? *Slaps forehead*

[Knigel]

P.S. I'm sure you can ask george Ricaurte to help you prove a link between Meth and MDMA, I'm sure he would do it for free knowing how bad he could make MDMA sound in the Media. Yet possibly him and all other "researchers" out there who are getting paid by governments and institutions to find the "dangers" and "horrors" of MDMA just somehow looked over the process of linking MDMA to METH that your chemist friend confirmed.

[MissBehavior]

I myself am partial to the MDA.

It makes me see fractal-y keleidoscopic rainbows. :)

[Knigel]

Remember that we all have the power to change our own personal reality but it does take a little more effort to show others how to change theirs.

[N888]

^^^ Well said.

[QuanNeur]

if one's going to be more habit-forming than the other then i imagine it would be mda seeing as it causes a greater dopamine release than mdma. we can all agree that dopamine release and addiction are strongly associated, can't we?

[Rytalin]

whatever dude.

ants are WAY more addictive.
evertried the chocolate covered ones?


Besides, Ant starts with A and A is for amphetamine.

or some shit.