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Nov 22, 06
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Harper 'recognizes' Quebec as a "nation within Canada"
Watching CBC, sifting through all of the bullshit. . . I'm finding this whole topic to be quite comedic. The whole issue has been numbed by semantics.
Here's my take: - Quebec will still use our currency, and not be expected to pay back their debt like they would be if they were made a sovereign nation. They are the most in-debt province in Canada. - They will still be governed by Federal Law. - They will still have the same say as the rest of Canada. - Absolutely nothing will change. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the BQ wanted sovereignty.. to be their own country. Yet all Harper had to do was call them a 'nation within Canada' and they're falling for it. Country and nation are two seperate words, meaning very different things. So this is where I bite the bullet and admit: Harper is a hell of a politician. While I may not agree with him being in office, he knows how to work the system. The only party that actually wants this is the Bloq, but by agreeing with this knowing it would be suicidal for any other party to vote for this, he's saving face value and making himself look like the fair PM he wants us to believe he is. Your thoughts? 
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Nov 22, 06
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The only difference is that the liberal with a strong french accent said that Canada is Canada and no we are not going to make an exception for these whining bastards. This is Canada, if you don't want to be Canadian...get the fuck out. /rant PS I miss Canada.
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Nov 22, 06
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being born and raised in Quebec and my whole family being there, the one thing I can tell you is that Quebec cannot and will not seperate from Canada. Now you have to understand something though now that Harper has recognized that quebec is a "nation within canada". Sure Gille Duceppe is a fuckin tool/puppet, keep in mind the show is still being ran by Lucienne Bouchard and Jacque Parizeau behind close doors to continue to move Rene Leveque's souvern movement.
What Harper doesn't seem to understand now is that even though he made the announcement that "quebec is a nation within canada" (purely to win votes against the liberals for next election) , he has now given the Bloc Quebecois fuel to bring up now before and after the recognition. The Bloc has the biggest smile on there faces for a number of reason's. Primarily being because first off they never signed the constitution/treaty or what ever it is therefore its not recognized by the "monarchy", instead now the Bloc can easily accuse since it is now recognized as a "nation" to have been held captive within the last few hundred years since it was discovered. The Bloc will also question parliament based on land and other asset's. Really they are going to bring up the subject "so since natives are recognized as a nation and have there own land (to which the government can't tell them what to do on there land), then doesn't that really make quebec independent then or where does it stand???? Next referendum will be interesting thats for damn sure Last edited by b0ld; Nov 22, 06 at 04:59 PM.
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Nov 22, 06
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Oh, for those of you who aren't following the news today:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...er-quebec.html As for you, el capitan. I firmly agree with you that Harper and his government do not deserve office. If Canada needed a conservative government, we'd still be singing God Bless the Queen and shunning dental hygiene. Also, I miss Cretien. The most interesting part of this, is how it's affecting the Liberal Leadership race. It's completely divided the candidates. I don't doubt the candidates' opinions on this matter will change more than a few votes.
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Nov 22, 06
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I don't see many Bloc supporters going the conservative path. They only vote 2 ways, Bloc and Liberal it seems. Now all the people he got so worked up about that garbage scandal are going to vote Liberal again because he will be biting this comment come poll time.
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Nov 22, 06
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Here's my take:
Harper is the prime minister leading a minority government, the opposition is united in the fact that they will support very little that the conservatives put forward, currently in that alliance are the ndp, bloc and liberal parties (they can all agree to stand against the cons. party on many issues) and what a great way this was to appease quebec and in turn, the bloc party. What a great way to even the playing field!
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Nov 22, 06
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Nov 22, 06
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Well here's the thing..... Right now Both the NDP as well as the Liberals are pissed off at the conservatives... Layton is ticked about the "clean air act" bullshit and stuff.... Things that was promised during last election. Harper knows that the Liberals and the NDP wants to dissolve parliament again and knows that that was obviously planned on the brinks. What Harper just did was win the "Bloc's" support so the Bloc will help avoid parliament being dissolved and going back into another election.
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Nov 22, 06
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Nov 22, 06
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I don't think it'll pay off for him. A lot of Western Canada is going "whaaaaat?" right now, and when the seperatists get over their initial excitement and realize it's all just a BS ploy (if they haven't already), it's not going to help him turn things around in Quebec either.
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Nov 22, 06
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I agree he does appear to take a good leadership role in some areas. My main concern is how he uses the media for his advantage. When it's asking questions or having a debate about important issues such as Afghanistan and accountability he trumps the media. When it comes to a rhetoric filled media stunt like flying to Lebanon he jumps on it. I applaud his willingness to take a harder stance on human rights with China recently but where is the same treatment for American brand torture? edit: oh and by redefining things such as Quebec as a nation within, that opens a whole head ache that can lead to constitutional debate in Quebecs favor. Last edited by decypher; Nov 22, 06 at 06:14 PM.
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Nov 22, 06
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Harper is manipulative. He seems to play politics like a game of chess; willing to lose a piece here and there, but constantly looking for the most obvious winning move. Canadian politics is a ruthless, cut-throat game with polite Canadian overtones and he seems to know how to play it well. His 'efforts' with Human Rights in China is definately respectable, but I have a feeling there's not much more to it than face value. I only hope that I'm wrong for while I won't stand behind him, a positive impact on the rest of the world will make him tolerable. After all, we can repair damage to our own government much more easily than we could ever hope to aid another's without ill effect.
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Nov 23, 06
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Quebec is utterly in its rights to separate from Canada but only if the following conditions are fulfilled:
1. Quebec alone must foot their own costs of government. If your going to try and pretend to be elitist in a country that trips over itself to be multicultural & culturally acceptant in a way that pretty much only the Swedes can rival you can pick up every last dime of you own costs. If you want to separate from Canada, you separate from Canada. No exceptions. 2. A repayment plan is put into place to ensure that Canada will receive compensation for every last sent of additional government funding Quebec has received since the last referendum (hey, you gotta draw the line somewhere) that exceeds the per capita government funding to the other provinces. This specifically means all those "cultural" slush funds & federally funded art grants. If you can't have the common decency to accept the special treatment and special funding Canada has given you since your so culturally different than the rest of your fellow countrymen/women you sure as shit are going to have to pay Canada back that funding. Oh and we’ll be taking our Federal Healthcare funding too. 3. Quebec will not have any exclusive rights to any highways, ports, parks and other federally funded & constructed facilities. Nice try, but you get what your tax dollars paid for. Feel free to offer to buy them off us, but keep in mind; we'll probably be bitter over it. 4. Quebec citizens will have to have their own passports & immigration systems, and no, Canada doesn't have to pay for this. If Quebec is separating, citizens of Quebec can have the opportunity to apply for Canadian citizenship, but normal immigration laws apply. Yes that mean you'll have to answer a questionnaire on Canadian cultural & history. Don't count on any questions on Quebec being in there other than "Which province was asinine enough to leave the greatest nation in the world?" Quebec citizens without Canadian citizenship will be restricted in their movements within Canada just as much as visiting US Citizen. 5. The Bloc Quebecois will no longer be allowed to participate in Canadian politics unless a representative is elected in a Canadian province. That means you don't get to waste our time and money pissing and moaning to try and get more of our time and money. If you have an issue with Canada you can talk to the friendly guys at the brand new Canadian Embassies we'll build for you guys in Quebec. Don't expect the guys to speak French though; they'll probably be pretty bitter about being posted in Quebec. 6. Quebec's existing seats in parliament will be redistributed between the remain provinces (excluding Ontario. you guys already have enough seats, and with Quebec gone Canada can turn back to focusing on developing its infrastructure & natural resources to benefit the whole nation. (PS. this means oil money. Seriously, you guys can't honestly not realize that it really is THAT important). I personally want to see more seats in provinces that are contributing more to the gross national product. and Finally: 7. Any Quebec citizen, regardless of wealth, who does not wish to leave Canada with the rest of Quebec is free to leave Quebec within 10 years of Quebec separating without having to pay a dime of tax on any funds they take out of Quebec (Canada can tax 'em to the hilt when they come back to Canada, but I'm thinking Revenue Canada won't loose any sleep over it. These are all reasonable conditions and they all deal with the side of this debate that Separatists love to gloss over and ignore while screaming about their cultural serfdom. Leaving Canada will cost Quebec money. A lot of money. It shouldn't cost Canada a penny. We have already gone far and above what I see is fair and reasonable treatment and compensation to Quebec over what is, at most, an elitist argument. Back in the '70s Canada became an independent country. That means you can't bitch and complain about how different you part of Canada is compared to everybody else’s because that's YOUR PART OF CANADA. There is no law that shackles you to your part of Canada. You part of Canada is not any better than anybody else’s part of Canada, especially on the basis that it was settled by the French first. You know fine rightly every last acre of land you covet was stolen from people who were clearly there first. I very much doubt you'll find Canada to be a sympathetic ear when the remaining First Nations in Quebec start separating and taking huge tracts of land with them using the legal precedent the separation of Quebec would set. Jesus fucking Christ. It boggles my mind in the 21st Century in a world that swirls with GLOBAL multiculturalism and interaction that some fool could figure that they suddenly deserve special treatment over a turf war that 3/4 of the nation honestly could not give two shits about. Call me when your culture is uprooted from its NATIVE home and you population is decimated by genocide. THEN you'll have something to bitch about. Canada shouldn't have to waste its time and money on your fascist demands purely because you have office towers of well funded lobbyists with nothing better to do than to dream up blackmail schemes to unleash on Canada. I honestly thought Harper was going to be the guy to finally end the special treatment. I could have stomached the rest of his flaws if he had only lived up to that one expectation. How rightwing of a Government are we going to need before I stop having to pay for the benefit of Quebec sticking around? Will I be goose-stepping before I have to stop paying for Fleur-de-Lis?
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Nov 23, 06
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Nov 23, 06
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you know when it boils down to it, the political definition of a nation is just a whole bunch of people who are the same culturally, basically. If a country consists of mainly the same culture, it's a nation-state. All countries are 'states'. To say Quebec is a nation within Canada is quite correct. To say the palestines are a nation without a state is also correct.
I don't think there should be that big of a hoopla over harper's comment.
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Nov 23, 06
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Our army defeated theirs, now they're under our Crown.
End of story. If they want out they can build boats and go for France or Bust Although to be honest I think most are perfectly happy to be under our flag. Seriously being Cdn is an easy ride. Medicare no draft 1st world And if you want to be a terrorist I hear our passports are mint to travel under. :(
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Nov 23, 06
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Nov 24, 06
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Quebec pretty much is a nation with in Canada. I'm sure anyone who's been would agree. But than again, so is Alberta, and British Columbia, Ontario, The Maritimes, Newfoundland, and the terretories. Every province is so radically different from each other. Quebec just happens to be the most ignorant of the bunch.
I'm actually a little pissed off, because I want to transfer to McGill to continue my studies. But as someone coming from another province, I am treated as an international student and charged 3 times a much. This is one of the many examples of things Quebec shouldn't be able to get away with.
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Nov 24, 06
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Dont look at me I voted yes for the STV. This is just to ego stroke all the seperatist, it's a tactical move on Harper's part, and a better one of his I may add. I've always been ammused when some non-francophone tries to either speak french or give Quebec a pat on their collective noggin for being the squeaky wheel. Honestly I am surprised that Quebec has stayed a part of Canada this long, last referendum there was a .2% margin on the vote to split, and I could see a push for the NAU being the drop to fill this bucket. One day Quebec will split if you ask me, and they won't be satisfied unless they leave us with the bill.
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Nov 24, 06
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anyways from some1 who just got back from quebec, u don't know how annoying it is to turn on the radio and hear people argue the semantics over the word "nation" in english and french for 5 hrs. i lived in a very pro french area in the burbs, i made a point to always speak english, and it always warms my heart to get a dirty look to know that i've annoyed another seperatist. i was way proud of harper when he stood up to the yanks on artic soverignty but i now think he should be hanged for treason.
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Nov 24, 06
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damnit..Canada should just do what Germany did (West-Germany and East-Germany) and go West-East Canada; a similar style is Western NHL Conference - Eastern NHL Conference. Seriously, and no offense to anyone somehow related to Quebec...but that province is pissing me off. In the future should they call themselves an "Independent country/nation" or whatever they see themselves as, I say build a freakin wall around the whole province! So if you have some trash to rid of you can always throw it on the other side of the wall. :) What gives Quebec the "right" to separate themselves from a united nation in the first place? I sure hope the native people go in after the land in Quebec and protest that their land is stolen. heheh...Personally, I think this whole issue is bullshit :mexitoke:
Last edited by Antenna_Boy; Nov 24, 06 at 06:06 PM.
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