Sep 08, 02
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September 11th
its been a year now and wow i cant beleive it.
i remember hearing about it in the afternoon that day and i honestly thought my mom was talking about a movie. I turned on the tv and was glued to it for a week. It was unreal. i was shocked to see those planes with hundreds of people inside crash into the World Trade Centers, then hearing the devasting number of deaths... especially the number of firefighters and police who died trying to save lives. It was a wake up call.... reality is the scariest thing one can ever imagine.... everyday i listened to the news, hoping for an explanation to why it happened and who was responsible. Automatically the name Osama Bin Laden came up. From then on, September 11th became the biggest discussion topic. Many different opinions arose, many supporting Bush's fight against terrorism, but many against it as well. I personally had many mixed views on this issue. As a person who had no friends or family members involved in the incident, I had the state of mind to question September 11th.... why the fuck did it happen!? Are terrorists simply terrorists for the sake of bombing people? Did all those people deserve to die in such a horrific way? Was it fair to point fingers at Osama Bin laden without any solid evidence that he was the mastermind behind it all? Why did Osama deny any involvement in the incident when he was first questioned, then admitted to masterminding it a few days later? What are your thoughts on this? Lets have some thoughtful insights please =) 
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Sep 08, 02
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This is a really touchy subject and unfortunately you're just inviting the trolls to leave nasty messages on here.
I'm in the same boat as you though. It was a wake up call to the world not just the US. It showed Canada that we're really no safer than the US, considering we are their closest allies whether we like it or not. It exposed the world to what sort of BS foreign policy the US has been forcing on the middle east for years. It woke many Americans up and probably brought that country closer together than it ever has been too. I get angry though at the way the media portrays this a great injustice against the US and how Americans should feel vindictive and head off to war. I mean the event itself was a tragedy and thousands of innocent people died. they were someones mother, father, sister, brother etc... and they had nothing to do with any of the political agendas that brought the attack on. You can't ignore, however, how the US has been exploiting the middle east and killing thoudands upon thousands of innocent people there for numerous years. In the end it should be ebough to make us take a step back and look at this from a global stand point rater than a national stand point. This event, in many ways, changed the world. Unfortunately the vast majority of the world population will forget and nothing will ever change. We'll go back to killing each other over pointless things fighting somebody elses war. I think the hippies had it right when they said 'make love, not war'. It may be a cliche, but it definitely could be used now. I'll take a bit of time on 9-11 to reflect about all the lives lost on that day and all the days before that in the middle east. Innocent people died that day, but they weren't the only ones.
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Sep 08, 02
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Osama took credit for 11-9 because he wants to be on MTV!!
http://www.peopleunderthestairs.net/animation
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Sep 08, 02
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it was a real wake up call....i still dont understand why it happened...so many people have tried to explain it and stuff....but nothing really clicks with me...i see no point in war...thats the thing bout f'n'k everyone is happy and plurry....im one totally against war but i have mixed feelings on the war on terrorism....i dont agree w/ either..innocent people dying or any dying at that...
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Sep 08, 02
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i think its stupid they are makin such a big deal out of this again
yes peopel died that was a year ago all the families are maybe just starting to get over it and nwo they're gonna be showing shit on tv all fuckign dya to remind them of it everywhere they look, theres gonna be 9-11 shit whoa i just realized something we should celebrate 7-11 every year too hahaha
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Sep 08, 02
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^well of course theyre gonna make a big deal out of it, it IS the first anniversary of the biggest terrorist attack to ever happen in the western world. Come on its just one day of television, why do u care so much? Fuck, other than Sopranos, NFL and Family Guy i dont even watch TV.
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Sep 08, 02
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I was giddy with joy when I heard what happen.
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Sep 08, 02
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honestly
i didn't give a flying fuck about 9-11 either i actually got mad at my mom for waking me up to tell me i dont care if its gonna take place of other shit on tv for one day i rarely watch tv anyways other then cartoons but i think its a bad idea for the sake of the victims families
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Sep 08, 02
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this isn't about countries, its about people.
if you don't feel for all the loss, and all the terror caused that day, then I don't understand you. what happened shook and effected the world. when I hear about the stories of families lost in the act, I get a little tear in the corner of my eye. these people didn't deserve to die, they lost everything they had for what.. for nothing! thousands of people were robbed of their LIVES because of a handful of selfish individuals. this isn't about Americans its about your fellow man and.. ahhh I donno I could go on forever about nothing. 9-11 should effect you, and everyone.. if you can honestly sit at you computer and say you don't care about what happened, and the people lost, then you are no better then the people who did this. show some respect. show some sympathy. :soak: -myles :(
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Sep 08, 02
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When I first heard it, I was in a taxi cab after just getting off the Greyhound. I was excited because it was my first day here in Vernon (having lived on the coast almost all my life, I was anxious for a change) and what was being played on the radio hardly affected me. It sounded more like a special effects synopsis for an upcoming blockbuster.
However, once I had settled in, unpacked everything, and turned a TV on, I was mesmerized by it. The world hadn't seen a man-made catastrophe like this in decades (and certainly it was the first one I'd ever seen). Weeks went by and I was given a chance to reflect on it. I realized that our safe and secure little world isn't nearly as safe and secure as we thought. Americans (and Canadians) had grown lazy and content with their place in the world, and more or less willing to ignore those less fortunate than us. Perhaps it would change things for the better, make N. Americans more aware of the world abroad and concern itself more with international politics. One year later, I really haven't seen much progress. America has withdrawn in on itself once again, focusing its attention on corporate scandals rather than world politics. As much as I wanted to see terrorist groups brought to justice, America's agenda became blatently clear when the Israel/Palestine and India/Pakistan crisises arose. Here were terrorist activities being carried out but where was America's War on Terror in these instances? Just because they aren't Americans doesn't mean the terror attacks carried out in these regions (and many, many more in other areas of the world)m are any less significant than 9/11. Terrorism is terrorism, no matter where or how it's carried out. I'm just as concerned for a safe environment as the next person. I want to be able to know I can wake up, walk down the street, and not have a suicidal terrorist make me a casualty of war. However, I seriously question America's motives in their War on Terror. If Al-Qaeda is ever routed, will America continue and focus on other regions of the world that has nothing to do with the U.S.A, or will they just pat themselves on the back for a job well done and go on with their lives until the next group gets their chance?
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Sep 08, 02
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sykonee... america hasnt withdrawn from the war on terror at all
look where afghanistan is now? the talibans are gone, women are allowed to show their faces, people are allowed to watch movies... etc etc progress has been made. point is, the war on terror can just simply never be won. terrorists are terrorists because of religious reasons which make them more dangerous than we'd ever want them to be. the western world sees them as terrorists but they call themselves freedom fighters. The US has layed on unfair foreign policies to the middle east and has caused severe inconviences to many lives... basically becuase they are fighting someone elses war. terrorism is there becuase the US asked for it. The US government is pissing off these people and these freedom fighters are willing to die for the sake of giving their people the freedom from all this exploitation and foreign policy. what i think as a whole on the war on terrorism? its fuckin stupid. the us should realize why the events of september 11th happened in the first place and make some changes so the terrorists have fewer reasons to kill another 6000 people
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Sep 08, 02
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I never said they had withdrawn from their War on Terror (although I guess I may have worded so it may have come across as such. If so, apologies.). What they've done for Afganistan was great but I hope they will continue to help rebuild until the country is self-sufficiant again.
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Sep 09, 02
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the weirdest thing for me about sept 11th was waking up in the morning and not seeing a single airplane...that was weird...the skies were closed.
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Sep 09, 02
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Stepford Citizen Syndrome: Top Ten Signs Your Neighbor is Brainwashed
September 5, 2002 By Maureen Farrell Democraticunderground.com Though much of the world is convinced the 2000 election was a coup d'etat, and many believe we're being lied to regarding 9/11, we Americans are unaware of how numb we seem. Not only are we being coerced into World War III, but at this very moment, unnamed souls are secretly locked away, the Army's drafted plans for civilian detention camps and there's a shadow government buzzing beneath our streets. And yet, we continue to ignore the oily elephant in the living room. The administration's Iraq war dance is likewise baffling, particularly when Dick Cheney says Saddam can't be trusted - even though, not too long ago, he was trusted to the tune of $73 million during Halliburton/Iraq transactions. Moreover, newly discovered memos reveal that Cheney was also involved in a 1975 cover-up involving the CIA's mind-control experiment, MK-ULTRA. Back then, the government paid $750,000 restitution to Army biochemist Dr. Frank Olson's family, after admitting the CIA slipped Dr. Olson LSD days before his 1953 fall from a New York City building. When the Ford administration finally came clean, they promised they'd revealed everything. Yet according to an article in the "Mercury News," (Scientist's death haunts family, August 8, 2002) key officials, including White House aides Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld pushed to continue to conceal information. But not only has the government tried to control people's minds, they've copped to controlling the media, too. Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's plan to infiltrate America's newsrooms, was such a success that former CIA director William Colby boasted, "the Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any major significance in the major media." Carl Bernstein substantiated this, revealing that hundreds of journalists and news organizations were involved in this subversion. And though officials have admitted to planting fabrications in the past, it seems they're still at it. Remember the story about the terrorist's passport surviving the fiery crash into the World Trade Center? What could that be but government-issued pabulum? And what else but full-scale public brainwashing accounts for the rash of Stepford Citizen Syndrome spreading throughout the country? Which brings us to the case in point. Researchers have identified the following symptoms. If you overhear anyone making the following statements, assume they've been brainwashed and intervene immediately: 1) "George Bush is a decent man." Abraham Lincoln once said, "[i]f you want to test a man's character, give him power." If he steals power, however, the nature of his character is no longer in question. This week's out of court settlement with the NAACP over Florida's foray into election fraud confirms BBC's Greg Palast's report that the election was rigged. Yet pundits ignore this travesty, while referring to Dubya's decency in much the same way our ancestors spoke of Earth's flatness. Overlooking our thrice-arrested president's blatant disregard for civil rights, human rights and the environment, they continue to downplay scandals and downgrade their role as protectors of the public trust. But with oft-repeated quips like, "lucky me, I hit the trifecta" and "if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier," G.W. offers a glimpse at his indecent inner frat boy. Especially revealing was a Talk Magazine interview, in which he mimicked death row inmate Karla Faye Tucker. "Please," Bush whimpered, mocking Tucker's plea for clemency, "don't kill me." Gallows humor is only funny when those telling jokes don't have the power to save people from the gallows. 2) "I have faith in our system of checks and balances." Certainly, the uproar over Operation TIPs and recent court decisions on FBI abuses and secret deportation hearings are healthy signs. Except, of course, that controversial findings against Ashcroft's Justice Department will most likely be appealed before the same felonious five who handed down the 2000 selection. Chief Justice Rehnquist has already warned that, "in times of war, the laws are silent." Then, too, though the Constitution grants Congress the sole right to declare war, since 1948, America has been involved in approximately 250 military incursions without one single declaration of war. The Bush regime has already said they don't need Congress' approval on Iraq. So much for checks and balances. 3) "We have to defend ourselves, and the war on terrorism is the only way to do that." Anyone who believes this war is simply a drive to eradicate terrorism must be brainwashed. The U.S. has been building military bases along proposed oil pipeline routes, and has its eye on the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian Sea region. All anyone need do is read Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" or brush up on the Wolfowitz Doctrine to understand the not-so-hidden agenda behind U.S foreign policy. In recent appearance on Crossfire, Insight Magazine's Jamie Dettmer deftly addressed America's aim to control the oil fields in Iraq. "Nobody has suggested the United States is going into Iraq to control the oil," Tucker Carlson asserted, leaving some to wonder if Tucker's bow tie isn't too tight. "Let's not be unsophisticated about this," Dettmer replied, warning that, "in the end, if America doesn't restrain itself, [it's] going to provoke groupings of countries which will restrain America instead." 4) "Since September 11, George Bush has shown strong leaderships skills." Since September 11, George Bush has led us away from progressive policies and alienated us from the rest of the world. British papers describe the biggest rift between Europe and the U.S. in more than 50 years, 85 percent of Germans no longer trust America, and veteran reporter Helen Thomas bemoans how, "friends and allies wonder what's happened to the United States." Our $7 trillion surplus has followed the president's example and gone AWOL, while unemployment, crime and intellectual numbness are on the rise. Under Bush's "leadership," the U.S. has become the kid who picks his nose in class. Those of us who love America are embarrassed; others are repulsed. 5) "Europeans don't agree with us because they're effete appeasers." Europeans don't agree with us because we're wrong. They understand the geopolitical motivations behind this war, as their press isn't as censored. In America, however, stories about Enron's involvement in the proposed oil and gas pipeline though Afghanistan were squashed, and if you wanted to know about the Taliban's trip to Texas, you had to learn about it in the National Enquirer rather than on Meet the Press. 6) "George Bush's administration is filled with solid, foreign policy pros." Aside from Colin Powell, George Bush's cabinet is swarming with neo-conservative ideologues who'd be clamoring for an attack on Iraq even if the atrocities of 9/11 hadn't occurred. Despite the chorus of countries opposed, Dick Cheney unilaterally forges ahead, while Donald Rumsfeld says he's certain America will receive backing from the international community. Meanwhile, the international community scratches its head and wonders what's become of our once great nation. 7) "George Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror." Given limited media coverage, how would anyone know? Unless one digs through foreign press and alternative media reports, there's little to go by. When one reads reports from journalists like Seymour Hersh, however, a different picture emerges. Stability in Afghanistan is but a myth, warlords carry out atrocities without intervention, and the State Department is forced to guard President Karzai. Meanwhile, many warn that Bush's plans for Iraq could lead to Armageddon. Yet "Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror?" How? 8) "People who say the Bush administration 'let 9/11 happen' are conspiracy nuts." Forget the president's odd behavior on September 11. Ignore that jets weren't scrambled from Andrews Airforce base, or that the FBI reportedly thwarted investigations. Pretend there are no connections between the Bushes, bin Ladens and the Saudis or that Bush #41 doesn't profit from this war through his connections with the Carlyle Group. Imagine, for a moment, it doesn't matter that those heading the closed-door investigation into 9/11 met twice with the former Pakistan intelligence chief, who reportedly helped finance Mohammed Atta. And never mind that, despite warnings, only 14 planes were defending our mainland on September 11. These oddities could be explained through coincidence and incompetence rather than complicity. That said, remember this: After World War II, the CIA recruited Nazi scientists to share information later used in the aforementioned MK-Ultra program. In the '60s, the Pentagon drafted plans to kill American citizens and blame it on Castro as a pretext for war with Cuba. And Army-based concentration camps aren't merely a gleam in Ashcroft's eye. The brainwashed are conditioned to hear "conspiracy" and shut down, however, immediately deducing information isn't true and the messenger is daft. But even Bill Clinton reportedly asked Webster Hubbell to find answers to two questions: "One, who killed JFK? And, two, are there UFOs? " He never found out. And odds are we won't either. Even so, it's not crazy to demand an independent investigation into 9/11. Nor is it nuts to wonder why the administration is doing everything in its power to make certain we never uncover what went wrong. 9) "The media is liberal." Ann Coulter complains about the liberal media through the "liberal media," where she's regularly given a forum, yet Michael Moore has appeared on less than a handful of shows, though his book's been a bestseller for six months. During the election, the corporately-controlled media portrayed Al Gore in a negative light, while touting Bush's phony ranch-hand charm, and according to a report in F.A.I.R (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting), 75 % of the dominant sources of opinion on all three major networks are Republican. Yet the brainwashed continue to believe the media has a liberal bias. Go figure. 10) "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction!" This phrase has replaced, "Saddam gassed his own people!" as the #1 mantra of war-mongering dittoheads. But despite former weapons' inspector Scott Ritter's assertion that there's no proof Hussein has amassed weapons of mass destruction, Dick Cheney says there's "no doubt" he's got them and plans to use them. During the Cuban missile crisis, John F. Kennedy relayed photographic evidence proving the Soviet Union was up to no good. Where's the proof now? Why hasn't the administration won over our allies? Why do so many doubt there is "no doubt?" Latest polls indicate that nearly half of all Americans believe the First Amendment "goes too far," proving that Stepford Citizen Syndrome is now a national crisis. We have an obligation to rouse our loved ones out of their stupor. If we don't, the thugs who've stolen America will steam-roll right over us. And if you can't see that, chances are, you're brainwashed. Last edited by SPK; Sep 09, 02 at 01:22 AM.
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Sep 09, 02
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What a sad day... :014:
The day that the world felt sadness, loss, but most of all, the unity that was founded among the people. Cheers to all those who have volunteered or lent a hand to those who have lost a loved on during this terrible event. And a moment of silence to all those who have lost their lives to this act of terroism. May your wings set you free from the madness of politics.
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Sep 09, 02
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It is really sad in my opinion how happy people are to be completely complacent and just eat up the slop served by the mainstream media.
When the events of 11-9 were unfolding one thing that I found shocking was how few questions were really asked about what had happened. They was little question as to who did it after a few hours (Osama of course...). There was no dout as to why it was done (well they are psycho Islamic terrorists). How were the people that did this able to (easy they high jacked a few jumbo jets)? There was no questioning what had happened (well we were attacked by terrorists obviously). Why did they name Osama as the prime suspect after only hours (BECAUSE HE IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!)? What I think people fail to see is how these events so greatly further the agenda of the corporate World. "Stay at home and shop over the internet!! It is for your own safety!" Also the push to have e card identification got what it needed in the states to trample over people's right to privacy. Soon Americans (and soon after Canadians) will be required to carry there e identification or face possible detention (without being charged) for not having it and being suspected of terorist activity. What is suspicion of terorist activity in this context defined as? Maybe organizing a protest against the WTO could be in that sort of real? What if these organizers were planing to harm a head of state? "Well this guy doesn't have his ID card maybe we should take him in and run some checks on him, could be trouble." They are planing to take away our right to privacy. What is happening right now as a direct result of these events is that we are having our rights and freedoms stripped from us. All of this being justified because it for our own good. For our safety!! I think that these events need to be examined much closer than what is offered as an explination and reason by the media. Why are there people that are ready to fly airplanes as missiles into building's and kill them selves? What has happened to people's lives and comunities that makes them act this way? Why is this anger being directed at the US? What has the US done that makes people hate them so much? Now a lot of what I have read would lead me to believe that Osama did have his part in making these things happen. By laying the blame square on Osama's shoulders they is no question as to who else was responsible, it's a simple we know who did it lets kill him and his friends. What I question though is who else (if any one) was complacent in allowing these actions? With the best intelligence gathering orginization in the World are we to believe that they (the CIA) had no idea this was going to happen? Are we to believe that there was nothing that they could have done to stop all these events from unfolding as they did? It's not that it is impossible these people could have acted on there own but it seems very improbable to me. Such a complex thing with so many people involved and NO one knew!? So why did this happen? Was it just a bunch of psycho freaks that wanted to kill a bunch of innocent people? Or was there some sort of rationalization to what they were doing? What if they could rationalize these killings in the same way the US government rationalizes killing all the innocent people that die in there "war on terror?" Maybe this was there (the "terrorists") "war on terror." Only they don't have the resources to destroy the US army so they just attacked innocent people and killed them. While the US mostly kills innocents as a byproduct of attacking military targets they also have done many things that were no more nobel than these events. My point is that there is always a justification for horrible attrocities in some one's mind. These justifications and reasons still don't make it right. These are questions for which I have no answers but they are questions that should be asked and different opinions that are needed to stimulate debate. What is best for us? Are we going to let the powers that be decide that or are we going to debate that question and come to conclusions that are true for us? Are we going to be spoon fed what is best for us or are we going to tell the powers that be what is best for us? If we don't exrcise our rights they will cease to exist. Last edited by Senior; Sep 09, 02 at 05:16 PM.
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Sep 09, 02
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They knew it was going to happen and they let it happen. Here's some links that might explain why. You should take some time to check them out...
http://www.independent.org/tii/news/011203Stinnett.html http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=1149 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-1.htm
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Sep 09, 02
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Quote:
even tho im a canadian and all, the whole 911 incident has affected me alot....think about it....america is sooo close to us, yes our government is better..(well, a little better) but it could still happen to us....one mess up and anything can happen....and everything that happened makes me realize how much i take life for granted and everyone really needs to think about how any one can be affected by the tragic happenings... RIP all the innocent victims
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Sep 09, 02
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spk has the best posts in this thread.
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Sep 09, 02
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i've given out to much today...but i'll keep you in mind.
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