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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Apr 09, 04
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I was summarizing Goat. Got a problem with that?
I do.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
eff eff
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
-ff- is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Of course I'm not. I was, but he's done such a poor poor poooooooor job of running the country I've made the switch to democratic. I do support some republican ideals, but he is extremely "right wing". All this BS about the war on steroids, anti-abortion shit... bush is a fool's fool. I wish howard dean won the candidacy of the democratic party... John Kerry seems like a poor leader, but anything is better than bush.

Nobody would have voted for Dean. He's too liberal for America. Kerry could win, even though he's the less than ideal candidate. Edwards would have actually been the best choice - Even the republicans were afraid of him.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
Senior's Avatar
fuck yeah
 
Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
1) Low intensity warefare by guerrillas against a well equipped regular army... Hmm sounds like Vietnam or Iraq to me. Quagmire in the sense that they went over there and are now basically stuck with no dignified way out.

You can say this about anywar...and how is there not a dignified way out?

2) The purpose of the war was to line rich weapons manufactures pockets and rape Iraq for it's oil reserves. At least this is what is being accomplished. They haven't found WMD or installed (by the way that's an oxymoron) a democracy yet.

Have to agree with this one

3) American companies got BILLIONS of $$$$$ worth of contracts fixing the oil infrastructure. Iraq has the second largest know oil reserves in the world.

Agreed

4) Are you trying to say that most of Iraq is not under American occupation and that it's mostly the Brits running things? That where the Brits are running things everything is good and jolly? Have you been reading any independant accounts of what's going on over there? Is the violence going on in the streets of Bhagdad, Nasariya and Falujaa that has taken the lives of over 18 US soldiers and 100 Iraq's a peaceful protest?

Nope, Us is in control of alot of it. Spain, Italy, Australia, England along with others all control small parts of Iraq. Did i say Bhagdad, Nasariya and Falujaa had peaceful protest? No... i said BASRA

5) The Americans can't even stage democratic elections in their own country... do I need to go further?

How so? Don't bring up the bush election thing... if thats all you got..well...

6) Please enlighten me some facts or perhaps even one. I'm off work now but if you like I can get plenty of sources for you to read that are highly credible.


What would you like to know? I've been following this war closely day by day. Although I can't say I know anymore than anyone else... everything i see is off the net/ on tv/ or in the paper. Lets discuss, I love talking politics... also if you see any error's with my facts, please inform me... there's no point talking about the war if I have the wrong information.


P.S.

BUSH IN '04!

lol...
1) Low intensity war is not the rule or the exception in modern times but does describe the conflicts in both Vietnam and Iraq. For those of you saying that Vietnam wasn't low intensity because 20 people (US soldiers that is, far more VC and civilians were killed every day) were killed every day look at high intensity wars where thousands were killed in single battles. A dignified way out of Iraq would be accomplishing the goals expressed prior to the invasion (finding WMD, installing democracy and what not) and then heading home mission completed. This is not going to happen.

4) Sorry I read your post a bit to quickly (I had 5 minutes before I was off work) and had the wrong idea there. Just to add to that though the non US "coalition" troops make up a very small amount of the total contingent.

5) I'm not trying to say that the US isn't democratic in theory or that they don't hold democratic elections. However if you care to look a little closer at the Bush versus Gore 2000 election there was some serious violations of democratic principles. Really though this is just a distraction from what we are really talking about here. I personally believe that the US has no intention of allowing fair elections in Iraq. IF, and it's a big if, the US allows all Iraqis to vote in whoever they please as their leader I still doubt that this person would really be the one running the show. Further more I bet that the candidates that are allowed to run will be very buddy buddy with the US (Ahmed Chalibi and company). Even if any one is allowed to run like Kris was saying it would still come down to money. The US interests could still finance and run so much better of a campaign for the person of their choice that they could guarantee a win for the person of their choice.

6) I do apologise if I came off a little hostile, I wasn't trying to belittle you or your knowledge of the events discussed... however on reading my comments just now there were a little charged.

Just on a side note here any one else notice that Vancouver has been abuzz lately with political activism and a lot of involvement with the democratic process. I went to go vote for the COPE executive the other day and over 1000 people showed forcing the meeting to be postponed as the room booked only held 700 people. Is it possible that people are starting to do something about what's going around them?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
Senior's Avatar
fuck yeah
 
Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -ff-
Nobody would have voted for Dean. He's too liberal for America. Kerry could win, even though he's the less than ideal candidate. Edwards would have actually been the best choice - Even the republicans were afraid of him.
I just get the sense that Kerry is basically "Bush Lite." I wouldn't really expect any big chnages from him if he got in power.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
eff eff
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
-ff- is an unknown quantity at this point
The real problem is their rediculous two party system.

as I've heard it put, the republicans and the democracts are just two branches of the same party: the business party.

There is no doubt that Kerry is just one more opportunistic professional politician. He's good at shaking hands and looking stoic on TV. Unfortuately, he's all we've got. The sad thing about modern politics is the continual process of chosing the least-worst option.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
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fuck yeah
 
Join Date: May 2001
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"This Republic was founded in part because of the arrogance of a king who expected his subjects to do as they were told, without question, without hesitation. Our forefathers overthrew that tyrant and adopted a system of government where dissent is not only important, but it is also mandatory. Questioning flawed leadership is a requirement of this government. Failing to question, failing to speak out, is failing the legacy of the Founding Fathers."

Senator Robert Byrd
Senate Floor Remarks
April 7, 2004
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Apr 10, 04
eff eff
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
-ff- is an unknown quantity at this point
^

Yeah, the US was a pretty great idea to start with (well, the myth of what America 'was' at founding - omitting all the stuff about slaves and killing Mexicans and Indians and whatnot). Real shame the way things have gone.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Apr 11, 04
Using the force
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Sir_K is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior
Even if any one is allowed to run like Kris was saying it would still come down to money. The US interests could still finance and run so much better of a campaign for the person of their choice that they could guarantee a win for the person of their choice.
Lol thanks Nolan. I was beginning to think my posts were so long that nobody bothered to read them :)

unfortunately these are complex issues which in explaining ones position require complex statements to explain and back up your words
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Apr 11, 04
Barstar.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
e_BoY is an unknown quantity at this point
Im so sick of this crap. since 911 everyday i see people killing each other in the news whether it be in Iraq, Afghanistan, or wherever. Damn you BUSH!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Apr 11, 04
gangsta!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
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After watching the Americans mess up this whole war thing... it just makes me proud to be canadian.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Apr 13, 04
Using the force
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Sir_K is an unknown quantity at this point
This Bush administration plays like an old scratch record. Talk about the move toward a non-democratic police state "in troubling times". Troubling times because of Bush administration bungling, I'd say.

Domestic politics getting you down? Start another war.

Iraq looking bad? We named three in the Axis of Evil. Lets start getting the guns pointed at target number two. Iran.

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040419/wiran.html

What a crock of shit. The Ayatollah in Iran released 20,000 POWs from the original Iran-Iraq war, returned their guns and said, "Go home to Iraq."

Considering Rumsfeld was involved in financing the Iran-Iraq war on the Iraqi side, you would think that he would be grateful and happy that the freedom-fighting soldiers financed on his policies can come home to show the ordinary Iraqi's how fantastic the US is.

Oh wait. I forgot. The US abandoned them once they were captured, like their other Shi-ite brothers and sisters when they asked them to uprise against Saddam. Guess these guys have a bone to pick with the US. Oops.

Iran obviously has a million and one reasons to chuckle at the US's misfortune iin Iraq. They must be laughing their guts out now, because they get to return 20,000 POWs in a massive humanitarin move (these fighters are now free from Saddam's persecution in Iraq, the most honorable Americans are in control now and will protect them, wont they?) and it will only add to US misfortunes in the region (the last thing these POWs remember is the US financing the Iran-Iraq war and the US pulling out).

Iran hasnt exactly been receiving fantastic reviews from the current US administration. They have some barbs to trade back: http://www.mehrnews.com/wfNewsDetail...82&t=Political , in response to http://www.payvand.com/news/04/apr/1063.html

Amazingly, the US administration is so arrogant that they dont read between the lines of http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=37983

The US is a serious threat to Iran, entering the region, the axis of evil, the US pressure on Iran, ad nauseum.

Dont they realize that every country in the region is sending people to gain positions of influence in the new government? These supposed "Iranian Agents" are merely supporters of an Islamic Revolution who want Ayatollahs in charge rather than US puppets.

What about the US? They have an army of "US agents" in the territory, and Bremner is not even clandestine about the US maintaining control in a colonial style, US friendly government.

The pot calls the kettle black, while the whole Iraqi experience is leaving the American citizen feeling a little burned - but hey - if they attack Iran - they can postpone the US election, or at least drum up some more support for that whole "War President" platform, instead of letting it slide into "blundering idiot president" like those outside of the US have known for years.

Last edited by Sir_K; Apr 13, 04 at 12:38 AM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Apr 14, 04
Senior's Avatar
fuck yeah
 
Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_K
Lol thanks Nolan. I was beginning to think my posts were so long that nobody bothered to read them :)

unfortunately these are complex issues which in explaining ones position require complex statements to explain and back up your words
This is the exact problem that most activists face when trying to get issues out into the public realm of thought.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Apr 14, 04
.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
tvmann is an unknown quantity at this point
There are reports that the US has been telling ciivilians in some areas they will be shot if they are on the street during curfew hours. On CBC TV there was a report just now that an Iraqi woman was shot by a US sniper through the head when she opened a window curtain an inch to take a look outside.

You always hear stories about dirty stuff, murders done by the Americans when they invaded foreign countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, and Iraq. The death toll of the people in the occupied lands is high, and many of these must be non-combatants and some of the survivors will want revenge.

Imagine the hatred the families and friends of the dead and injured people will have for the invaders from the USA. Yet the Americans have been brainwashed into thinking of themselves as heroes and liberators and defending the USA.

The American politicians are so clueless. You can't run around invading countries, supporting dictators, and killing people all over the world for 50 years, and expect there will be no consequences at all. But there there have been ALMOST no consquences, because the USA, as a global bully, has been smart enough to choose their targets wisely. They prefer to attack distant, small, poor countries that have almost no chance to strike back.

Last edited by tvmann; Apr 14, 04 at 06:48 AM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old May 07, 04
Using the force
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Sir_K is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior
This is the exact problem that most activists face when trying to get issues out into the public realm of thought.

amen ya
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