Low-carb diet firm Atkins files for bankruptcy

[tvmann]

Yeah the bad breath is a ketone thing. If a person doesn't eat enough they can smell bad after a few hours.

My friend on that diet says this is written up in the Atkins book.

I have another friend who is a doctor and he says when he was in the States at school lots of doctors and professors down there (NY area) were on the Atkins diet.

[Goat]

carbs are not a bitch to expel. they're our most efficient source of energy!

Because they're long lasting, ie hard to break down....

and, too much protein CAN get converted to fat.

I know you're the nurse-in-training but that doesn't sound right to me.
Can you give an example and process of protein being converted into fat?

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by Goat

Because they're long lasting, ie hard to break down....

I dunno... monosaccharides are pretty easy to breakdown...

Originally Posted by Goat

I know you're the nurse-in-training but that doesn't sound right to me.
Can you give an example and process of protein being converted into fat?

I did not learn this from nursing. but anyways, here's a website that a bit more detailed:

http://www.uwstout.edu/faculty/mille...PRODUCTION.htm

read the second paragraph.


another way to explain this complex idea into simpler terms:

there are 4 calories for each gram of carb or protein. for each gram of fat, there are 9 calories.

to gain weight, generally there needs to be energy intake > energy expenditure. I believe it takes something like 3500 excess calories to gain 1 pound of fat.

so you can see how an excess of protein contributes to more calories and there, can make a person who has an excess of it, store it as fat.

--Joanne :P

[Grapes]

^ That shit is Bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

I dunno... monosaccharides are pretty easy to breakdown...




I did not learn this from nursing. but anyways, here's a website that a bit more detailed:

http://www.uwstout.edu/faculty/mille...PRODUCTION.htm

read the second paragraph.


another way to explain this complex idea into simpler terms:

there are 4 calories for each gram of carb or protein. for each gram of fat, there are 9 calories.

to gain weight, generally there needs to be energy intake > energy expenditure. I believe it takes something like 3500 excess calories to gain 1 pound of fat.

so you can see how an excess of protein contributes to more calories and there, can make a person who has an excess of it, store it as fat.

--Joanne :P

thats the dumbest thing ive heard in awhile

first of ya eating in excess of 3500calories in anything will put fat on, but as far as protien making you fat it will never EVER happen.In fact eating alot of protien aids in loosing fat. Myself TRYING to eat as much protien as i can each day I can only stomache around 250-300grams a day, thats eating 6 times a day.

in order for protien to be the cause of fat gain you would need to eat like fuck 1000+grams a day according to ur info.

thats like eating 20-30 steaks or 20-30 large chicken breasts a day. NOT gona happen.

the biggest contributor to fat gain is carbs, thats why the diet is LOW carb.

[pbreak]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

thats the dumbest thing ive heard in awhile

first of ya eating in excess of 3500calories in anything will put fat on, but as far as protien making you fat it will never EVER happen.In fact eating alot of protien aids in loosing fat. Myself TRYING to eat as much protien as i can each day I can only stomache around 250-300grams a day, thats eating 6 times a day.

in order for protien to be the cause of fat gain you would need to eat like fuck 1000+grams a day according to ur info.

thats like eating 20-30 steaks or 20-30 large chicken breasts a day. NOT gona happen.

the biggest contributor to fat gain is carbs, thats why the diet is LOW carb.

buddy, you're an idiot:

"Also note that the liver can convert amino acids to fatty acids when there is excess protein in the diet. Hence, excess calories in the diet are stored only as glycogen or fat, regardless of the form in which they entered the body; ie, one can get fat without eating fat if there is excess carbohydrate and protein in the diet."

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about whereas Joanna does. A well balanced diet is just that, balanced amongst all necessary parts of food and I dont' think you have a clue what that is.

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by pbreak

buddy, you're an idiot:

"Also note that the liver can convert amino acids to fatty acids when there is excess protein in the diet. Hence, excess calories in the diet are stored only as glycogen or fat, regardless of the form in which they entered the body; ie, one can get fat without eating fat if there is excess carbohydrate and protein in the diet."

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about whereas Joanna does. A well balanced diet is just that, balanced amongst all necessary parts of food and I dont' think you have a clue what that is.

your the fuckin idiot, the day you get ur ass to the gym and have 6years of reading book upon books on nutrion you can tell me whats what. Safe ur google info for someone who doesnt know his shit.
every single BBer on the planet eats as much protien as they can when they are cutting and they dont worry about fat, the only thing they cutt are carbs.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

your the fuckin idiot, the day you get ur ass to the gym and have 6years of reading book upon books on nutrion you can tell me whats what. Safe ur google info for someone who doesnt know his shit.
every single BBer on the planet eats as much protien as they can when they are cutting and they dont worry about fat, the only thing they cutt are carbs.

first of all, in theory, it's not just simply 3500 calories to gain 1 pound of fat. it's 3500 in EXCESS calories that will make you gain 1 pound of fat. but there are so many more variables that contribute to weight gain rather than simple mathematics. that's why I specifically wrote that this is a COMPLEX idea and I was trying to explain this using the simplest of terms.

second off, the idea that the liver converts excess amino acids into fatty acids is not something I just learned from googling off the internet. it's something that's taught in anatomy/physiology/biochemistry/nutrition university/college level classes. but since I have better things to do than to photocopy pages from my anatomy/physiology and human nutrition textbooks and cite in proper APA format, I figured this website was an easy way showing people more credible evidence. :P

and did you ever think that eating all that protein never got you fat because *gasp*, you actually burn more calories than you take in?

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

thats the dumbest thing ive heard in awhile

first of ya eating in excess of 3500calories in anything will put fat on, but as far as protien making you fat it will never EVER happen.In fact eating alot of protien aids in loosing fat. Myself TRYING to eat as much protien as i can each day I can only stomache around 250-300grams a day, thats eating 6 times a day.

I should also mention, 3500 of just any kind of calories will not necessarily lead to weight gain. for example, if you're going to eat 3500 calories from just FAT and barely anything from carbs and protein, you won't gain weight, because there won't be anything there to elicit an insulin response to later lead to an uptake of glucose to your glut-4 cells.

this is why my instructor who drank 1 1/2 litres of whipped cream and only whipped cream for 2 weeks straight ended up losing, instead of gaining weight!

oh, but I'm sure you already knew that from your 6 years of reading books on body building. :)

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by pbreak

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about whereas Joanna does. A well balanced diet is just that, balanced amongst all necessary parts of food and I dont' think you have a clue what that is.

dammit, Brian, my name is Joanne, not Joanna. how do you like getting your named spelled wrong, huh Brian?

HUH BRIAN??

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

I should also mention, 3500 of just any kind of calories will not necessarily lead to weight gain. for example, if you're going to eat 3500 calories from just FAT and barely anything from carbs and protein, you won't gain weight, because there won't be anything there to elicit an insulin response to later lead to an uptake of glucose to your glut-4 cells.

this is why my instructor who drank 1 1/2 litres of whipped cream and only whipped cream for 2 weeks straight ended up losing, instead of gaining weight!

oh, but I'm sure you already knew that from your 6 years of reading books on body building. :)

ya another reason he lost weight rather then gaining it of a whipp cream only diet is lack of protien, he put his body into a catabolic state (wheater he was eating an excess of calories or not), and when ur body decides its need protien guess where its takin it from, ur muscles, thats why when dieting properly you try and eat as much protien as posible to combat ur body eating away ur hard earned buff.

and ya i did know that, like 4 years ago, insulin is one of the most studied substances in BBing. Ive read a shit load of articals and studies on it.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

ya another reason he lost weight rather then gaining it of a whipp cream only diet is lack of protien, he put his body into a catabolic state (wheater he was eating an excess of calories or not), and when ur body decides its need protien guess where its takin it from, ur muscles, thats why when dieting properly you try and eat as much protien as posible to combat ur body eating away ur hard earned buff.

actually, your body will first try and use up their glycogen stores via glycogenolysis. it's when these glycogen stores get depleted that the body will then go for the fat and structural proteins. so it's not just because he lacked protein, but also glucose (something you can easily get from CARBS).

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

actually, your body will first try and use up their glycogen stores via glycogenolysis. it's when these glycogen stores get depleted that the body will then go for the fat and structural proteins. so it's not just because he lacked protein, but also glucose (something you can easily get from CARBS).

ya no need to tell me that considering your body can pretty much deplete its glycogen stores in one 8 hour stint of sleep.

kind of a moot point.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

ya no need to tell me that considering your body can pretty much deplete its glycogen stores in one 8 hour stint of sleep.

kind of a moot point.

I'm pointing out it's not just a lack of protein that he's missing. :D

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

I'm pointing out it's not just a lack of protein that he's missing. :D

yes i know its not the ONLY thing hes missing, eating a whipp cream only diet.

and i havent checked the label on whipp cream but i wouldnt think glycogen or insulin levels would be a problem assuming WC is mostly sugar of some kind and fat of somekind.

so the main )like 75% style) reason he's loosing weight is lack of protien.

I bet if you he ran Hydrostatic Weighing tests before and after his 2 week diet you would probly find, he lost weight yet, his fat levels slitly went up.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

yes i know its not the ONLY thing hes missing, eating a whipp cream only diet.

and i havent checked the label on whipp cream but i wouldnt think glycogen or insulin levels would be a problem assuming WC is mostly sugar of some kind and fat of somekind.

well, he's a very intelligent person, who I have a lot of respect for, so I'd like to think that if he was trying to find out what would happen in a high-fat, almost non-existent carb/protein diet, he'd be smart enough to get whipped cream sans the sugar or vanilla syrup.

and if there was enough sugar in it, don't you think it would have elicited enough insulin response to uptake the glucose to his cells and help him gain weight?

[Goat]

[quote][quote]I believe it takes something like 3500 excess calories to gain 1 pound of fat.

so you can see how an excess of protein contributes to more calories and there, can make a person who has an excess of it, store it as fat.

There's no way in hell someone can eat 3500 calories worth of protien a day. If you have any fat or carbs in that diet, those carbs/fat in excess of 3500 would be turned into fat, you're right about that.

Protein can't be turned into fat though. Period.

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

well, he's a very intelligent person, who I have a lot of respect for, so I'd like to think that if he was trying to find out what would happen in a high-fat, almost non-existent carb/protein diet, he'd be smart enough to get whipped cream sans the sugar or vanilla syrup.

and if there was enough sugar in it, don't you think it would have elicited enough insulin response to uptake the glucose to his cells and help him gain weight?

again i dont know what kind he used and im not even sure what WC is made out of :) im just assuming theres sugar and fat in it, (cause ive made homemade WC) also the kind of fat/sugar is in it will make a big defference in the out come.

and just because ur body pumps out some insulin and you have glucose going into ur cells doesnt= im gona gain weight.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by Goat

There's no way in hell someone can eat 3500 calories worth of protien a day. If you have any fat or carbs in that diet, those carbs/fat in excess of 3500 would be turned into fat, you're right about that.

Protein can't be turned into fat though. Period.

no fucking shit! first of all, 3500 excess calories is not generallly something you consume in one day, but over a period of time. second of all, I never said that all those excess calories necessarily have to come from protein. I don't know how many excess calories it would take for the actual amino acids to turn into fat. or even if those excess calories have to come from protein alone! it was just an example that eating too much in general can lead to weight gain.

how about you just forget about the point that it takes 3500 calories to gain 1 pound of fat for a second and just listen:

excess amino acids CAN be turned into fat. period.

go research the hepatic system or human metabolism and prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by hardstylin

and just because ur body pumps out some insulin and you have glucose going into ur cells doesnt= im gona gain weight.

well, duh, I know that! lol

but it certainly won't help someone lose weight if they're taking in a lot of calories from sugar!

[Goat]

Well Fuck.
We're all arguing different ideas thinking it's the same thing.
It's high time for everyone to shut the fuck up.
This conversation is over.

[-ff-]

its about time!

[diva]

eating too much protein will make you fat
eating too much anything will make you fat
if you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight, regardless of what form these calories were in
3500 excess calories will make you put on one pound of fat, regardless of what form (carbs, fat, protein)
the atkins diet is not only a low carb diet, but it's a low calorie diet as well (yes, it is)

bananas in pjs is right
hardwhatever is wrong

[diva]

Originally Posted by Goat

Because they're long lasting, ie hard to break down....


I know you're the nurse-in-training but that doesn't sound right to me.
Can you give an example and process of protein being converted into fat?

carbs are the easiest macronutrient for the body to break down
simple sugars start breaking down the second they get in contact with the saliva in our mouths

proteins start breaking down when they hit the hydrochloric acid in our stomacs

and fats start breaking down further down the line when they reach our intestines

don't you remember those stupid high school bio labs where we'd use enzymes that were supposed to mimic our own to see which ones broke down which foods?

[diva]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

your the fuckin idiot, the day you get ur ass to the gym and have 6years of reading book upon books on nutrion you can tell me whats what. Safe ur google info for someone who doesnt know his shit.
every single BBer on the planet eats as much protien as they can when they are cutting and they dont worry about fat, the only thing they cutt are carbs.

you might have read the books on nutrition, but you certainly didn't comprehend them because you're seriously misinformed

i don't need google info, i only need the knowledge i've learned from taking actual nutrition courses and having peer reviewed textbooks as references

the reason that BBers don't get fat from eating so much protein is because they burn it all up working out. if they ate as much, but didn't burn it off, they would get fat because the body only has one day of dealing with excess calories. [CONVERTING THEM INTO FAT or GLYCOGEN]

[diva]

Originally Posted by Goat

Protein can't be turned into fat though. Period.

you're wrong.
please use google or something and figure this stuff out for yourself. i feel bad for joanne. i'd never spend this much time trying to reason with an idiot.