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| Coffee Lounge Talk amongst other community members. |
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Jan 19, 06
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Yes. This is why I feel bad about stratigic voting. Im a big fan of the underdogs such as the NDP and Green party and much rather give whatever money my vote gives, to them instead of the Liberals who have enough suport already. 
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Jan 19, 06
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Today a retired man on CBC newsworld asked the GST/income tax question directed towards Harper who in turn responded with running around the topic, of course. As for tactical voting, it's an inherent flaw in our plurality(first past the post) electoral system. This system causes similiar platforms in a multi-party system and an amount of seats that don't represent the majority mandated by the electorate. Last edited by decypher; Jan 19, 06 at 06:54 PM.
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Jan 20, 06
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^as for the notwithstanding clause thing. yeah, i know he can use that to over turn a charter of rights ruling, however, he said in one of the debates that he will not use that clause. he has repeatedly said that whenever someone has questionened him about it.
i know politicians lie and everything, but i hope he's not lying about this one. i just can't see canada being very happy with over-turning same-sex marriage...i mean, we're just going to have to re-do the whole thing later. it's not like the issue will just die out.
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Jan 20, 06
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even if the liberals or conservatives win. you dont want either party to have all the power... if the ndp and the green win some seats then it means we have a majority government where all parties get a chance to have there say on the issues at hand..
we all know it will be conservative or liberal... so why not give the little guys a chance to speak up and have a say in things
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Jan 20, 06
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I watched some coverage last night and the hot topic it seemed was the meging of the left. This is going to end up being a big deal.... especially if we're lucky enough that the Conservatives only manage a minority gov't.
While the Libs and the NDP have different platforms and ideals at least they BOTH stand against Harper. Now while I don't think you'll ever see the Libs and NDP merging like the Reform and the Alliance did years back at least they can unify on stalling/stopping all of Harper's right-wing agenda.
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Jan 20, 06
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edit: grr keep having to fix my atrocious spelling haha. Last edited by decypher; Jan 20, 06 at 06:20 PM.
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Jan 21, 06
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Wow. I'm surprised at all the disgust towards the Tories. You'd think they're as bad as the Neo-Cons in America. You do all realize that, in terms of gereral policies, the Tories are more left than the Democrats?
Thing about voting Libs is it's voting for the status quo. Why rock the boat when things are going fine, right? The question is why would you want things to remain the same when we could be doing so much better if we are willing to take a few chances? If folks fear some of the more extreme rightish Tories (which make up a very small percentage of the whole Tory cabinet) will take over the whole government and turn Canada into a Fundamentalist state, then they really have a lack of faith in the sound judgement of the common man to make sure their elected officials play fair. Canada's federal system needs a serious shake-up -it's the whole reason things have grown so currupt in the first place. The Reform Party promised that and one can only hope that ideology remains in the PC Party. (PS: Who do we have to thank for the surplus? Why, the Tories of course, what with the introduction of the GST and all)
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Jan 21, 06
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realistically at the core idealogy of policy making and enacting, all three of the major parties are similair. You really want to make a change, then lend your support to a revoutionary movement to instill a whole new representation of self government. Everything else has failed and will fail, because inherently in our current system it is fundementally impossible to incite realitistic and long lasting change.
The question then falls on what are the make ups of specifc supporters for the reletive parties? Only the NDP really has a base of working class peoples, immigrants, the poor, students and indegenous peoples. (however weak, divided and convoluted is still up for debate) So realisitcally the NDP would have the best chance of representing the left, currently vs, the green, or communist parties. I would love to see a merging of these four parties, because as a consequence, the people who support the respecitve parties will in turn have to unify, ratify, and come together as community to empower themselves and enact their demands for respective needs. We are not in a state to charge parliment at this point, first there needs to be an active unification of leftist supporters, a full scale organization and moblilization, through and preceeding a massive campaign of public education, and information, And only then, when the citizenry is armed with a revolutionary mindset, a true political ideaology, and information on the transgressions undertaken by past government, will be able to evoke REAL CHANGE. Quote:
This last statement is somewhat redundant in the face of the reality that the common man/women HAS and CONTINUES to let the government of CANANDA NOT PLAY FAIR. Racism, is an artificial dissension based on a true material disparity. Oprression has an material base - how? - oppression, division, subversion, illusions are all tactics to suppress civilian resistance, as to aquire the most material wealth, resources and ultimately power and control. The liberals in all their need, and wanton lust, to support and expand big business does it at the expense of oprressed peoples, but through neo-liberliast campaigns that were the disguise of "imroving the economy" and the sunsequent "quality of life for civilains" But really that means only for a few, at the EXPENSE of the many. This is the fundmental vileness of the Liberal Party. There is a freedom to consume, or be consumed. The conservative party in all there righteous rightness, will BE NO DIFFERENT except for adding more convaluted and racist/prejudiced policy to more "societal lifstyleP policies. There will be an increased war effort (that has fuck all to do with the US, we are an imperialist super power in our own right) increased attacks on immigrants, secularism, indegenous peoples, and the right to resistance. If your going to speak on, "shaking things up" and "making change" then you have to do it outside the context of current government, otherwise your supporting those who carry out the oppression and their imperialist agenda - plain and simple. Its becoming more of an us vs them thing every day, and although its simplistic at first glance, your really either oppressing or being oppressed. Its a tough pill to swallow, but these are my personal beleifs, and one shared by many in their efforts for legitimate revolutionary development and change, which is still fledgling, but grows stronger every day. You want to make a change in the context of our current electorial system nonetheless? Then vote for the greens. In gaining a specific number of seats, there funding will increase, and in turn help them develop there somewhat fragile platform into a significant contender. Or go NDP, and join others in trying to eradicate the significant level of beaurecratic corruption that has spread like wildfire through the party, robbing it of major legitimacy. Do vote conservative or liberal is reactionary(this is for you sidekick!) and a negetive blow to real change. This wasnt to dump on you, i appreciate your need to want to shake things up, and understand the inherant frustrations in trying to see significant change happen( i go through it everyday!) action + mobilization shakeel lochan 604.719.7410
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Jan 21, 06
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Highlights from a Stephen Harper speech given in 1997 to a American Think-Tank:
But seriously, your country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world. As long as there are exams, there will always be prayer in schools. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians. First, facts about Canada. Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it. In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance. the left wing agenda [is] to basically disintegrate our society in all kinds of spectrums. They [The NDP, or, by implication, left-minded parties] were in favor of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially for the entrenchment [nice word...] of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country. [So... universal healthcare is bad?] A country like Canada will never have as strong a national identity as you do in the United States.
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Jan 21, 06
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i am voting for a person, not a party.
nowhere on my ballot does it say 'stephen harper' or 'paul martin' so i'm not going to base my decision on them. fuck all that 'strategic' voting shit. if this is the only chance that i have to make my opinion known i'm not going to vote differently than i feel i am best going to be represented for any reason. sure, that might mean i might split the left wing vote or something like that because i think that my ndp candidate is better than my liberal candidate or whatever. but if everybody is going to get their panties in a knot about me not voting, then when i do decide to vote it will be for someone i want to see in parliament, not for someone who will vote for the pm i want.
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Jan 21, 06
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