Lemieux ends magnificent 17-year career.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

Not to mention before he even got cancer he was on pace for 232 points which would have completley destroyed gretz's records. Mario was Simply amazing

Gretzky was on pace for 246 points in 1983. That surpasses Mario's pace of 232 points.

You think Gretzky kept that pace of 3 points a game for the whole season I don't think so.

Point is just because their on pace doesn't mean their gonna do it.

[KenJi]

Gretzkty also had 4 200+ point seasons.

[Dj Franco]

Gretz retired at age 38 with a 1.92 goals per game average. Mario retired the first time at age 32 at the peak of his career with a 2.04 goals per game average, the only person in history to avg more then 2 goals a game to end his career. He came back in 2000 at age 35 that is the only reason why now he ended his career at a 1.88 avg. If he had never retired at 32 but then retired at 38 like Gretz he most likely would have kept his 2 goals a game average. Of course this is all debatable but all im saying is Mario basically gave Wayne a couple records by playing till 40

[Dj Franco]

Gretzky also played with the likes of Jari Kurri, Mark Messier, Glen Anderson and the list goes on. Mario had 199 points in 76 games in 1988 but the penguins missed the playoffs. He played most of that season with Rob Brown on his line who got 49 goals that year but never got 20 goals again for the rest of his career. Gretz was great, but he would have never did what he did on a bottomfeeder team like Pittsburgh in the mid 80's, theres no way. Theres night when Mario would go out and score 5 goals but he had to get Jay Caufield his trainer to tie his skates because his back was in too much pain.

[KenJi]

Dude in his prime penguins he had kevin stevens, ron francis, jaromir jagr, bryan trottier who was still alright, who else the team was stacked.

Gretzky had the ability of making everyone around him better significantlty. Look no furthur than when he got traded to L.A and single handidly took them all the way to the stanley cup finals in his second season.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

Gretz retired at age 38 with a 1.92 goals per game average. Mario retired the first time at age 32 at the peak of his career with a 2.04 goals per game average, the only person in history to avg more then 2 goals a game to end his career. He came back in 2000 at age 35 that is the only reason why now he ended his career at a 1.88 avg. If he had never retired at 32 but then retired at 38 like Gretz he most likely would have kept his 2 goals a game average. Of course this is all debatable but all im saying is Mario basically gave Wayne a couple records by playing till 40

I ALREADY SAID MARIO was the PUREST GOAL SCORER = Best goal scorer in the NHL.

I am saying I don't think he would have surpassed Gretzky's all time records of 2857 points, 1963 assists.

but he most likely would have surpassed the 894 goal record easily.

Gretzky was racking assists even when he was past his prime

[KenJi]

Mario = best goal scorer

Wayne = best play maker

[KenJi]

you really love mario don't u haha

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by KenJi

Mario = best goal scorer
Wayne = best play maker

For sure. Gretz stopped scoring half way through his career.

[KenJi]

The debate has always been who is the overall all around best player.

I think for his size and play making ability gretz was a little higher overall.

The # 1,2,3 and best hockey players in the history of the NHL will always be debated between Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr and you can throw in Gordie Howe too

[Grapes]

If durability is part of greatness, then you have to give the edge to Gretzky. Mario fans always go "What if Mario wasn't injured so often" blah blah blah. It's not Gretzky's fault Mario's spine is made of balsa wood.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by Grapes

If durability is part of greatness, then you have to give the edge to Gretzky. Mario fans always go "What if Mario wasn't injured so often" blah blah blah. It's not Gretzky's fault Mario's spine is made of balsa wood.

Don't forget Gretzky has had his share of shoulder and back problems too especially when Gary Suter hit him from behind and drove him directly into the boards.

He still got 130 points in a season. He was only a scorer in his early years. and whatever you say he still got 92 goals when he was on pace for less that season

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by KenJi

The debate has always been who is the overall all around best player.
I think for his size and play making ability gretz was a little higher overall.
The # 1,2,3 and best hockey players in the history of the NHL will always be debated between Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr and you can throw in Gordie Howe too

Fuck, if you're going overall, my vote's for #4 Bobby Orr. Everyone knows about Gretz's backchecking and Lemieux, despite his size, has never been that much of a dominant physical presence. Think about Orr leading the league in scoring as a defenseman and his +128 season. No one dominated them at both ends of the ice like Orr.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by Mangle

Fuck, if you're going overall, my vote's for #4 Bobby Orr. Everyone knows about Gretz's backchecking and Lemieux, despite his size, has never been that much of a dominant physical presence. Think about Orr leading the league in scoring as a defenseman and his +128 season. No one dominated them at both ends of the ice like Orr.

What about Paul Coffee and his 48 goals and 126, 121 and 138 point seasons as a defencemen.

Though ya Orr dominated the game.

I still pick Gretzky overall a notch above orr for number 1.

Gretzky's as a person, ambassador to the game when he went to L.A. Taking the Kings all the way to the finals on a so so team. Building excitment in California.

and just had everyone always figured gretzky was too small to do anything of value in the NHL instead he goes and breaks or holds 61 records.

With Orr there will always be comparisons to Paul Coffee.

Though I don't think Paul Coffee is in the top 5 like Gretz,Orr,Lemieux, Howe

[KenJi]

Lemiux will always be compared to power forwards with a skilled set of hands.

No one played like Gretzky cause most players don't have Gretzky's body, and no one played the thinking game as much.

Not even Adam Oates.