To everybody that voted for David Emerson

[ebbomega]

Quit yer fucking whining.

For the last time, vote for representatives, not leaders.

Nowhere on the Ballot did it say "Paul Martin", so stop bitching that this guy didn't turn out to be a big Martin backer in the end.

You voted for HIM, not Paul Martin. So his defection is nobody's fault but your own.

[decypher]

I think it's more of the principle.

[ebbomega]

The principle is: YOU VOTED FOR HIM. And yes, he turned out to be a liar. OMG A POLITICIAN WHO LIES AND DECEIVES! THE WORLD IS OVER!

Still not grounds to ask him to resign.

addendum: if you voted for a proper reprasentative instead of a party, then you really wouldn't care which party he's for, isn't it?

People keep saying that my philosophy on voting is naive and that yeah, it'd be nice to vote for the representative, but unless the rep is in the governing party it's useless, right?

Sure.

The best vote I ever made was for svend robinson in a year that the NDP had a total of 5 seats.

[b0ld]

Ya... gotta love it though... Harper indicated when he got elected that he would clean up politics in parliament.... Not only does he end up (cock sucking) emerson but he ended up putting some former conservative candidate who didn't even run as head of some dept..... Yep he's really cleaning up the politics in parliament already...

[elliot]

a lot of people who voted for him feel lied to.
they are well within their right to ask him to resign and call a byelection..
and if he wont do that, then at least he has to defend his jerk decision

[fable]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Quit yer fucking whining.

For the last time, vote for representatives, not leaders.

Nowhere on the Ballot did it say "Paul Martin", so stop bitching that this guy didn't turn out to be a big Martin backer in the end.

You voted for HIM, not Paul Martin. So his defection is nobody's fault but your own.

Hehehehe, i was at Emersons ridings all candidates meeting. He had the people there eating out of his hand. Hes one slick mutherfucker, so much so, id say he was probably the best speaker, most composed, and definetly the most confident. He has one of those shit eating grins, that makes you just want bust em in the mouth.

I cant help but laugh, at peoples reactions. The level of ignorance thats been displayed in reactions that ive been privy too, cements the fact for me, that a portion of the population have a very weak, naive, graps of their politics. Many of these people being the loudest, and most brash, when it came to defending their vote.

Hopefully some serious introspection will come out of this. Both in the sence of how it is so appealing for a rep in one party to switch over to another (parallels in party policies, and representational demographics) and in terms of what does a liberal AND conservative vote mean, in this country.

[BongMan]

bitch and complain all ya want but he is probably best suited to serve the west in the posistion Harper gave him softwood lumber hello... Also what is the difference between this and Belinda changing parties?? Atleast this guy has the skills for the job what did she do as minister of human resources and skills development??

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by elliot

a lot of people who voted for him feel lied to.
they are well within their right to ask him to resign and call a byelection..

Um. Sure.

They are within their right to ask him, he's within his right to tell them to fuck off.

Politicians lying, particularily when not under oath, has never been a reason to oust them from parliament. If that were the case, there would be nobody in there.

Fuck, Clinton lied under oath and they didn't see it fit to impeach him....

[elliot]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Um. Sure.

They are within their right to ask him, he's within his right to tell them to fuck off.

of course he can tell the people who voted for him to fuck off, hes already got what he wanted from them. he will be back before them in a few years though. running as a conservative he says. it will be interesting to see what they have to say to him at that time.

[ebbomega]

assuming he runs in the same riding.

[decypher]

Well it is the principle which has angered everyone, you have to see it from their perspective.

Your always going to have this sort of media uproar with a decision like this especially so soon after an election. Personally, it's not a huge deal for me but will affect my perception of him. Speaks of his character.

Sure he may serve our interests better in cabinet, but he also receives a 60K+bonus on top of his 100K+ MP salary.

You also have to think about how he now will vote in line with Conservative ideals, giving the government another vote towards their agenda.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by BongMan

bitch and complain all ya want but he is probably best suited to serve the west in the posistion Harper gave him softwood lumber hello... Also what is the difference between this and Belinda changing parties?? Atleast this guy has the skills for the job what did she do as minister of human resources and skills development??

EXACTLY!

-beside the guys a career politican for fuck sakes! of course hes going to cross the floor and snag a juicey cabinet seat. i mean COME ONE HES the best guy for the job and ultimatly it is going to benifit the country alot more with hime there

as shady as they all are, and as corrupt as i consider the cons to be.

POLITICALLY it was the right move.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Quit yer fucking whining.

For the last time, vote for representatives, not leaders.

Nowhere on the Ballot did it say "Paul Martin", so stop bitching that this guy didn't turn out to be a big Martin backer in the end.

You voted for HIM, not Paul Martin. So his defection is nobody's fault but your own.

i think that's a pretty unfair and almost ridiculous view of the way things work. most people are voting for the political parties and not specific MP's in their ridings. yes paul martin does not appear on the ballot...but people are voting for the Liberal MP because they want to support the Liberal party.

and in this case they got fucked over. saying that politicians lie and cheat all the time is a very weak reply to this situation. you're right they do lie and cheat...does that mean we have to roll over and take it when it happens so blatantly? that kind of apathetic thinking just sucks

this guy campaigned as a liberal and used liberal money to get elected. people volunteered to help him and the liberal party out. they donated their time and money to help this guy out BECAUSE HE WAS A LIBERAL and not just because of who he is. it's completely wrong that he walked over to the conservative party just days after the election ended.

if people really are voting for the representative MP and not the party then he should have no problem calling a by-election and then running as a conservative MP. but the fact is that the people in that riding do not support the conservatives at all and he knows he wouldn't get re-elected as a conservative. what a cheap fucking power hungry move.

i think it should be illegal for elected MP's to switch parties without holding a by-election. it is fucking so undemocratic to vote for a certain MP and a certain party and then just have that MP switch parties without you being able to do anything about it.

[se7en]

he's a total dik. if he runs again but loses, will he switch again. hes a total disgrace, esp to the people of burnaby, kingsway. im not really into politics but what he did was so stupid.

[BongMan]

Once again I ask where was the huge outcry when Stronach did this atleast he isn't proping up a failing government as was the case with Belinda..

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by BongMan

Once again I ask where was the huge outcry when Stronach did this atleast he isn't proping up a failing government as was the case with Belinda..

Well honestly belinda is out of the picture now.... keep in mind harper is the one accusing that the liberals was corrupted and that when he would come into office he would clean up politics.... So what was done by the liberals was what harper implemented as "dirty politics" and again his vision was to clean up ottawa... The fact that he has appoint not only a defector..... but a person who didn't even RUN in this election to cabinet....

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by BongMan

Once again I ask where was the huge outcry when Stronach did this atleast he isn't proping up a failing government as was the case with Belinda..

there was a huge outcry when belinda did the same thing! didn't you read the papers or watch the news around that time? you couldn't NOT hear about it.

however, i believe that it is more of a slap in the face to have your candidate switch parties just a few days after you elected him.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by BongMan

Also what is the difference between this and Belinda changing parties?? ?

The fact that when she did it, Harper made a very passionate speech in Parlaiment about how his party will not ever play politics like that.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

i think that's a pretty unfair and almost ridiculous view of the way things work. most people are voting for the political parties and not specific MP's in their ridings. yes paul martin does not appear on the ballot...but people are voting for the Liberal MP because they want to support the Liberal party.

and now you see why that's a stupid way to vote. you're voting for the party based on the platform of the leader. but THE LEADER'S NAME ISN'T ON THE BALLOT, SO STOP ASSUMING THAT THAT'S WHO YOU'RE VOTING FOR! If you voted based on party rather than representative, you might as well have not voted at all because it seems fairly obvious that you didn't pay attention to who you were voting for.

and in this case they got fucked over. saying that politicians lie and cheat all the time is a very weak reply to this situation. you're right they do lie and cheat...does that mean we have to roll over and take it when it happens so blatantly? that kind of apathetic thinking just sucks

Okay, so the liberal government got re-elected three times after they broke just about every campaign promise in their big red book. i'm not being apathetic, i'm saying that a politician blatantly lying is no new thing and isn't about to get him ousted from parliament, nor should it.

this guy campaigned as a liberal and used liberal money to get elected. people volunteered to help him and the liberal party out. they donated their time and money to help this guy out BECAUSE HE WAS A LIBERAL and not just because of who he is. it's completely wrong that he walked over to the conservative party just days after the election ended.

sadly, that is NOT what you are saying when you cross off the checkmark on your ballot. what you are saying is "i would like david emerson to represent me in parliament". the fact that his campaign was funded by the liberal party is really just a side-note, and is always subject to change. plenty of people have gone independent or defected post-election. why should this be any different?

if people really are voting for the representative MP and not the party then he should have no problem calling a by-election and then running as a conservative MP. but the fact is that the people in that riding do not support the conservatives at all and he knows he wouldn't get re-elected as a conservative. what a cheap fucking power hungry move.

My point is that people didn't vote for the representative mp and now they're getting their panties in a knot. but that falls under "your own damn fault" because they technically lied on their ballot. they weren't saying "i want david emerson", they were saying "i want the liberal party". which is not what the ballot is asking, i'm afraid.

i think it should be illegal for elected MP's to switch parties without holding a by-election. it is fucking so undemocratic to vote for a certain MP and a certain party and then just have that MP switch parties without you being able to do anything about it.

So what you're saying is that the election serves no purpose except to get a prime minister elected. i'm sorry, but that's not what the purpose is. the purpose is to fill legislature seats. once the government has been called, THEN they can select a prime minister.

NOT a vote on the ballot transfers to a vote for the PM. Paul Martin's name was not on the ballot, David Emerson's was. Anybody who voted for him thinking they were voting for Paul Martin is deluded and also lied on their ballot.

What can we learn from this? Maybe next time it would benefit you if you showed up at an all candidate's debate and actually learned who it was in your riding that you are voting for. pay attention to their platform and what they will fight for, and vote based on that. stop worrying about 'strategic voting' and all of the national party issues... usually the ones that are pertinent to your riding show up in the all candidate's debates anyways. and if they don't you can always ask about them there. Maybe if that were the case, you'd take the attitude a few here have: Maybe he _is_ the best person for the job? CHRIST, YOU HAVE AN MP IN CABINET NOW... which means he has a decent amount of power. which means if you voted for emerson, your vote means a shitload more than it would have if he had been a Liberal backbencher. you'd think that people would be enthused.

but of course they're not. because they thought they were voting for Paul Martin. maybe people just need a lesson in spelling. because last i heard "Martin" didn't start with an E.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Up until the point we start placing a vote for both our local representative AND our leader it will always be a vote for the party leader regardless of what it says on that ballot. I completley disagree with you Dave.

I mean hell.... what's all that kissing hands and shaking babies for if not to get the LEADER noticed?

[ebbomega]

^^ distracting from the major issues so that you don't realize the person you're voting for is a tool and really doesn't know much about parliament and will just vote however the leader tells them to.

parliament would be in a lot better shape if people like that just didn't get elected. but because the distractions work, people blindly vote based on party. why should there be an expensive and time-consuming by-election to cover the ass of all the people who couldn't be bothered to pay attention to their local candidates?

It's not like his defection gives harper a majority, nor does not defecting put Martin as prime minister, so let's get over it already and deal with the asshole politician you elected, like it's been since democracy began.

[Cdn_Brdr]

I'm not disagreeing with you over the defection... although I will admit that if it had been a candidate that I voted for in my riding I'd be pissed.

In the end you won't convince me to think otherwise on the voting situation though. Well' have to agree to disagree Dave.

AND NOW FOR SOME GOOD OLD FASHIONED POLITICAL LIKE MUD SLINGING!

YOU'RE WRONG DAVE... I ATTRIBUTE IT TO THE FACT THAT YOU'RE MADE UP OF 99.9% DUMMY HEAD!

[Ryan Ross]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Quit yer fucking whining.

For the last time, vote for representatives, not leaders.

Nowhere on the Ballot did it say "Paul Martin", so stop bitching that this guy didn't turn out to be a big Martin backer in the end.

You voted for HIM, not Paul Martin. So his defection is nobody's fault but your own.

Does it not say "Liberal" next to his name on the ballot?

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

The principle is: YOU VOTED FOR HIM. And yes, he turned out to be a liar. OMG A POLITICIAN WHO LIES AND DECEIVES! THE WORLD IS OVER!
Still not grounds to ask him to resign.

Yeah, it is. How do you take $100,000 from one party and the first time it loses in ten years skip to the winning team and a cabinet post.

[miss.myra]

ebbo- because you vote for the person and not the party, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone to vote for the party before the person.