Apr 20, 06
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actually anywhere... 
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Apr 20, 06
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the New World Order is bad... mmmmkay?
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Apr 20, 06
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people who liken 9/11 to the reichstag fire are missing the rest of the allegory.
NAZI GERMANY WAS SET UP FOR THE FALL. In the final act, so is America. Not only was 9/11 an inside job, at this rate, it was also meant to be found out. The fat man moore made 180 million dollars off a movie that involved cutting and pasting news headlines. THEY ARE PAINTING THE US AS THE NEW EVIL EMPIRE! only a strong united nations/coalition group will be enough to stop this menace. this is the purpose of wars.
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Apr 20, 06
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holy shit,
both of you guys have serious problems. the both of make my own egoistic, narcissistic elitism pale in comparision and im one of the heartless capitalist running dog lackeys you are supposed to be agitating against. p.s sure looks like one hell of a revolution 
Last edited by SEAN!; Apr 20, 06 at 09:20 PM.
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Apr 20, 06
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Apr 21, 06
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Once again the economist in you takes a snapshot, with no context and makes a conclusion. Yours is a strength for the rich getting richer. Leave the huminatarian endevour for actual humans jackass. When are you going to crawl out of your Mullardville trailer, and come out and hang with me? :)
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Apr 21, 06
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Apr 22, 06
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Apr 22, 06
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Hey Fable, how are you able talk with 2 feet in your mouth? Your arrogant rant against Mark is pure drivel and holds no weight, you've never even met the guy! I've found Mark's comments enlightening and focused. I can relate to his comment that MAWO's slogans/mantras as being outdated and unspecific. ie. Canada out! Canada out!- Out of where? Iraq! Man, just STFU.
You may as well shout 1234 we don't need no fuckin war. At least Mark is attempting to expose corruption in the US government, media, etc... Your just wasting valuable post space with your unfounded bullshit accusations towards a so called "disgruntled counter-revolutionary." Go recycle some bottles or something you fucking long-haired spew box. Mark, don't even get peturbed by people like this, remember that they are entwined in the system and are doing the work assigned like everyone else. I think your getting closer to your goal than you think. Your posts have helped more than enough people see the reality that unfolds everyday and dissapears the next. I don't claim to be a revolutionary/protester/demonstartor, however, I am doing my part to question the powers that seek to control my life.
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Apr 22, 06
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Charlie Sheen getting smeared.....http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0421061sheen1.html
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Apr 23, 06
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Im sure there are folks here that really dislike the way I present things, but I think almost all of them admitted at the very least I know my history, my revolutionary theory and contemporary realities and my intentions towards imperialist and ultimately capitalism (non of this means fuck all if I fail to apply it to an organized, self critical COMMUNITY) Markus and I were butting heads about what we believe should be the way to organize/mobilize, focus on - but have you heard him trying to call me out on what I know in terms of the objective realities from top down and the bottom up? Do you? Ours is ongoing debate in the methodology of how we go about constructing a movement for change, not the goals or the nature of the enemies. . It was based on what our priories our in terms of what we need to be working on in terms of creating and sustaining a movement, I was not initially criticizing or dismissing the information he was bringing up. How old are you? What do you do? Student? Unions? Ethnic background? At the end of the day PARTY there is responsibility to be educated and continue to do so, whether it is the intricacies of the US, Canadian etc administration, the history of war and occupation since the 1900's, an understanding of classic revolution whether it was the Bolsheviks, or in Cuba or what is going on in Bolivia, Venezuela or even Peru for that matter BUT this isn’t a legitimizing factor for someone personally – it’s a given. Questioning powers? You wield this statement like you think it should earn someone legitimacy or integrity. You come off a tad young (but boisterous!), trying to sound like you know a thing or two and calling out people who have been doing this work far longer than you, and pull out things out of context and without any focus. If you really would like to know what I think the movement for social justice globally and domestically, then ask. Do not assume you know what I my stance is, because you do not (but this is a step in changing that) From my perspective it always comes down to the reality that a classic revolution is based on the idea of the ground up, not the other way around. And until we have a strong, organized, purposeful community, can we take further and more direct action. The alternative is a bunch of fractured groups doing isolated acts of anarchy that is more reactionary then anything. If you really want to see some change, then you are going to have to understand that it’s not about being ultra left, right, and bla bla. It’s about garnering support from the most apathetic, angry, disillusioned and cynical. MAWO is criticized by both ends of the spectrum, simply because we pay no attention to the labels, and we understand that everyone is necessary. Patience and maturity. Not frenetic irrationality. The hearts and minds of the movement must be controlled chaos. It can be a raging volcano, but must be administrated with cold precision. And in saying this I understand that this will take longer than the course of your insignificant lifespan or mine. My rawness comes from a base of genuine care for people like Markus, so if you are going to spread dissent, without even knowing me, I will find you, and we will deal with this in one way or another because once again you have no idea of my perception of others. People like Markus are needed, even little spitfires like you are (a tad condescending no?) needed. I don’t know Markus super well, but we have talked quite a bit, and I know he has burnt out once. The problem is so many organizers are burning out. I can turn around and get in bloody fist fights with WCPC members everyday, I can go head to head with stop war cats, I can butt heads with the ICL, and any small anarchist group in the city (and have at one time or another) but in the end its organization methodology that separates us, not any irrational, itchy trigger finger, two cent analysis you came up with. And within this ever-growing polarization of societal opinions and relevancies, will a movement emerge. If you are not interested in where I am coming from then that is fine, but if you’re going to pipe up little cub, then pipe up, be specific and come correct. Otherwise im going to dissect you, embarrass you and then move on. I still be in this fight in a decade from now, I hope you will too. I think you should check out the creation statements on the Fire This Time website. This was the initial basis from where MAWO sprang. In a few short sentences MAWO’s general line is for the self-determination of all OPPRESSED nations. From this comes the idea that the imperialist war that Canada wages abroad, is the same at home. The same can be said of the US, UK, France, Germany, China and several other large imperialist nations. Imperialist exist in the Petri dish that western capitalism constructed. MAWO puts it primary agenda first, and this is the creation of a self-sustainable, self critical, analytical, and methodical organization of purposeful, organizers. In antiwar organizing we find a tangible initial program that we feel would be the most efficient basis to engage regular people and get them involved. Through the course of organizing, we will construct and perpetuate an (r)evolutionary body that will be up to the task of taking more direct action, when the time is right. This is the root of true revolutionary analysis. The comprehension of objective conditions, the assessment, and prioritizing of tasks. The consistent reassessment of methodology, the application of a program that springs from the finding from research of the tangible objective conditions, and an organic process that teaches all of this exponentially. Sound familiar? It is both a representation of classic workable revolutionary, added to what my betters before my time where able to add. People like Markus will also add to this, and so will eye. But the process doesn’t haven’t to be “nice” or “comfortable” We are well beyond that. Hopefully this gives you more insight into where I am coming from, and where the several organizations I work with are coming from. I apologize if there where any serious insults in this reply, but I cant help but react but react to some of the comments you’ve put out there that echo the accusations that you made of me. I invite you to any and all events to at least come out and talk to young men and women of all walks of life. If we cannot seem to connect( im sure we will in person, my chip on my shoulder isn’t as large) than there are tons of both senior and new organizers to get into dialogue with. Hopefully Markus and I will be able to meet up and work together in the future, otherwise we will both do what we feel is needed to be done. YOU need to find out what that is for YOU, if it is indeed important to you. And just for the record, this reply has seen me more calm than I have been in a very long time. I hope this galvanizes you to do the same, because I am genuinely interested in what you have to say, and feel. In Solidarity, Shakeel Lochan http://www.mawovancouver.org http://www.firethistime.net (essential reading if you would like to know on what basis MAWO is working on, in terms of objective realities globally and domestically)
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Apr 23, 06
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Interesting video, it definitely makes some good points. I guess my take from the start has been that it was either done by the US for obvious reasons (we're going ______ because of 9/11) or in the least that they allowed it to happen for the same reason. I know it's not a new idea or anything but the scenario I see in the not so distant future (10-30 years) is another US civil war. With a looming energy crisis that has very grim implications for the US and an already widening gap between rich and poor, people are only going to become more disenfranchised.
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Apr 23, 06
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Apr 23, 06
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Things than could trigger such an event would be a major oil crises, a major economic crash like the great depression (that would in all likely hood be caused by an oil crises), a major out break of a disease (say bird flu for sake of argument), or an escalation of terrorism. I read an article about a year ago in Atlantic Monthly outlining a scenario of terrorist attacks that could completely cripple the US. Basically you start out with a multiple attack on "soft" tourism targets. The example they listed was doing simultaneous ANFO truck bombs (ammonium nitrate-fuel oil) at the major Vegas Casinos. While material damage would massive and hundreds of innocents would be killed the long term effects would be far worse. A few months latter they would hit Disney Land or a similar attraction with the same sort of attack. It would be nearly impossible for any of these industries to ever regain their former level of business. After that they would use suicide bombings in subway and rapid transit systems systems. Then they would drive a truck bomb into a nuclear power generation facility. To give you an idea of how dangerous these can be a semi trailer full of ANFO would have a blast radius of about 200 yards and leave a crater 50-60 feet deep. The Oklahoma city bombing was just a van and it blew out windows blocks away never mind destroying half of that building. Then as the government reacted with some sort of ULTRA Patriot Act they would just start going after softer and softer targets. Eventually with so much money being spent on foreign wars and massive expenditures at home for anti terrorism security the US would basically go broke. Beyond the obvious security expenses you have to imagine what these sort of attacks would do to the US economy. Not only would such a campaign be seen as retribution for attacks on Muslim nations they would also destabilize the US and force the US to withdraw troops from foreign countries. You also have to consider the possibility of home grown recruits for this sort of thing. With 2,000,000+ people in the US prison system you have an obvious pool very disenfranchised recruits right there that are non Arab US citizens and much harder to stop in these sort of attacks. Imagine how much easier it would be for a white woman with blond hair to slip through a security check point and get on a subway. Anyway...
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Apr 23, 06
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Describing the Oklahoma city bombing - "Experts were amazed at the radius of destruction: “Equivalent to 4,100 pounds of dynamite, the blast damaged 312 buildings, cracked glass as far as two miles away and inflicted 80 percent of its injuries on people outside the building up to a half-mile away.” Distant seismographs recorded it as a 6.0 earthquake on the Richter scale."
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Apr 24, 06
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Fable, I do not seek to discredit you and/or the work that MAWO is doing;
However, I will "call you," when you say Mark is a meth head, which he is not. Mark is doing his best, which he has always done to support what he believes in. As for me, I doubt that I have as much knowledge as you in the field of world history, but I would like to think that I am well read and follow current events. Some of the biggest crimes commited in history have been quietly swept under the carpet. Generations of people are suffering from wars long forgotten. ie. Rwanda, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc. Past revolutions against tyrany serve as a remider that governments are irresponsible and need to be scrutanized, especially governments that look more ficticious than real. In retrospect, I think that I should have majored in history rather than business, but that's another story. I can see that I came off looking imature, but I can assure you that I take this 9/11 situation quite seriously. The evidence points to a cover-up. There are still so many people that are unconvinced that the U.S. government had anything to do with it, just look at the people on FNK. Its important to look back at history, but even more important to stop the tyrany that is happening now. If you think that protesting Israel's occupation of Palestine is a current problem that outweighs the more pressing matters at hand, then I can only disagree with you. I think it is safe to say that attacking the tail of the giant is far less effective than attacking the eyes.
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Apr 24, 06
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I think you should check out an event or just the Web site, because I believe you are somewhat mistaken about the organizing i am involved in. Lets call it congruent organizing, to be simple. The Palestine issue is over 50 yrs old, but its roots are traced back to the Canadian reserve system, and events within have connections with Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, Aboriginal issues, working peoples and student struggles at home. What needs to be done right now, in my opinion is the unification of peoples through events and meetings that stress awareness, maximum involvement/participation, self education that is then applied to a group, as well as education within a group also. The key elements of all of this is antiwar/occupation organizing that is just as entrenched in labor unions, as it is student unions and other local concerns. We do it together, because they come from the same root or heart. Your speaking about going for the eyes, and not the tail, but i think it would be more accurate to say that the organizing i am part of, is going for the heart. No government administration is brought down by individuals whether they are highly educated, motivated, apathetic or cynical. 9/11 is serious, but considering history has seen much of the same thing from similar governments it is a reminder of what WE NEED TO STILL WORK ON. And part of this investigation is how are we going to form the largest, strongest, most dynamic and organized/disciplined movement? And in this study we realize we need to find a common grounds to first bring people into the fold. This is the where the patience part comes in. Because id like to think that the nature of 9/11 in lieu of deputy secretary of defense*( at the time) Paul Wolfawitz's manifesto would be clear, but there are still a large part of the population that still believe that Osama and Suddam were working together, and why there is still an occupation/war in Afghanistan. SOME of this might be due to people just being ignorant but another major reason is isolation/fragmentation which when fueled with apathy and cynicism turns into something far worse than ignorance. The drive for social justice is NOT just about spreading the truth (its a given) its about preparing and uniting a people to respond to that truth. And i don’t argue some things can be done at the same time in terms of organizing but lets go to the core, and branch out from there, not the other way around. Individuality is still an important component, the movement doesn’t want a pack of conformist functionaries who cant think for themselves but in the unification process there will be heated debate/conflict and grudges. but all close knit families see these occurrence, and at the end of the day, its not what happens in organizing, its how we respond, and how efficient we are. I am consistently learning myself (24/7) and this learning process is humbling, and liberating, and depressing, and inspiring, and angry all at the same time. Although i don’t say this often, its like in the heyday of my addictions/alcoholism, but in this instance i am directed, focussed, and supported and endeavor to support others and sometimes i am more successful than others. Thx for your comments bro! In Solidarity, Shak
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Apr 24, 06
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I think everyone has the ability to study, and undertstand historical events, but the context that these events happened in, how they were responded to, and the methodolgy of the process are key. This being said, one can obtain such an education on their own. If it makes you feel better, post secondary education in history more often than none, sees students have someone else subjective views pushed on them (somewhat redundant point as histroy initeself is subjective) but with little emphasis put on enabling a student to create the tools, so they may form their own system of analysis, conceptualiziation, goal setting and enactment for the betterment of humanity. There are some important lessons learned in business. I never studied it, but i was a chef for a long time, running kitchens, and some of the knowledge i managed not to fry, helps me today.
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Apr 26, 06
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You bring in nothing interesting into this conversation.
You are just frustrated because now you realize you are a fool for believing in the government for lying to you. You are a pathetic looser who will die clueless, but I don't pity you because in fact it is you who is the egoistic, narcissitic eltist. You will problem die very lonely too. Enjoy your cold hearted cash life. Quote:
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