>On the Toronto 17

[fable]

DEFEND THE TORONTO 17!
Victims of the Anti-Muslim Witch Hunt at Home

(Mobilization Against War and Occupation-MAWO
Statement on the June 2nd 2006 arrests in the Toronto
area)

On Friday June 2nd seventeen mostly young, all Muslim
men were arrested in South-Western Ontario under
unspecified allegations of being involved in a
“terrorist plot.” Alongside the Canadian military’s
spring transition from a housekeeping occupation
presence in Kabul to a savage combat mission in
Southern Afghanistan, the arrest of the Toronto 17 has
signaled that the war at home – a couple steps behind
the war abroad – has entered its own “combat mission”
against the democratic and human rights of oppressed
people in Canada.

The Toronto 17, already found guilty of “terrorism” by
the anti-Muslim smokescreen of the government of
Canada and the mainstream media, represent something
important for working, poor and oppressed people in
Canada. The storm troopers of the right wing of
Canadian politics are entering through the window of
the arrest of the Toronto 17 into the homes of all
Muslims in Canada.

TERRORISM OR STATE TERRORIST FRAME-UP?

One week into the saga of the arrest of the Toronto 17
still no charges have been released. The “allegations”
that the Toronto 17 were involved in a “terrorist
plot” have not been elaborated beyond allegation. The
synopsis of the prosecution’s case that was presented
at the June 6th court appearance was still nothing but
a collection of imaginary police allegations.

The arrests come as result of a two-year investigation
group of 17. If there was evidence of a “terrorist
plot” the crown prosecution would have been certain to
include some of this evidence in the synopsis
documents presented at the first appearance of the
Toronto 17 in court on June 6th. But no facts were
presented. Instead, a mere 8 page summary of the case
was presented to the defense lawyers. The desperation
of the prosecution team in trying to dig up “evidence”
was evident in the ludicrous allegations that were
found in these 8 pages. These allegations have been
broadcasted through international media as fact. They
include a “plot” to bomb parliament buildings, and the
“plot” to kidnap parliamentarians and to “behead”
Prime Minister Stephen Harper. In fact, none of these
“plots” were elaborated or developed into actual
“plots” but have been presented as court evidence as
loose talk, personal desires, and thoughts. In place
of evidence of intent to carry out these “plots” the
government has substituted further allegation of
“terrorist camps” and circumstantial evidence of the
“3 tons of ammonium nitrate,” allegedly sold and
delivered to the 17 by a sting operation of the police
and government themselves.

But the lack of evidence presented against the Toronto
17 has not stopped the government or media from
convicting the 17 in the court of public opinion of
“terrorist plotting” and launching an unprecedented
fear mongering campaign. The lack of evidence has not
stopped the courts and prisons from violating every
civil, democratic, human, and legal right of the
Toronto 17 – keeping them in solitary confinement,
denying them all (including the 5 minors arrested)
access to their lawyers, families, and eachother.
“Rule of Law” indeed. And the lack of evidence against
the Toronto 17 has certainly not stopped the
government and racist war mongering ruling class from
taking the opportunity to ratchet up anti-Muslim
hysteria, hostility, and paranoia in the media and
amongst “average Canadians.”

Here we find the truth. The guilt or innocence of the
Toronto 17 is not important as far as the Canadian war
drive is concerned. The motivation for these arrests
at this particular time has nothing to do with the
alleged actions or “plots” of the Toronto 17. The
arrests have everything to do with covering up the
government’s war drive in Afghanistan, dividing Muslim
and non-Muslim oppressed and working people in Canada,
and pouring the foundation for a new round of attacks
on the rights of immigrants, refugees, and all working
and poor people in Canada.

FEAR OF TERRORISTS = SUPPORT FOR WAR

Since the May 17th vote in parliament to extend
Canada’s combat mission in Southern Afghanistan until
2009 opinion polls have found a steady climb in public
opposition to Canada’s occupation of Afghanistan. And
just two days after the arrests, and buried beneath
the Islamophobic media storm, was the news that the
occupation forces in Southern Afghanistan – forces
under Canada’s control – will be doubled so “[w]hat
you're going to see is a massive influx of new troops,
more troops than the Afghans have seen in a long
time.'' (Canadian Lt.-Col. Ian Hope, June 4th 2006)

In answer to the growing anti-war sentiment amongst
people in Canada, the government of Canada borrowed a
trick from the masters of fear mongering in the US
government. Immediately after the arrest of the 17,
Liberal MP Wajjid Khan quoted the “hateful comments”
of Qayyum Abdul Jamal, the so-called “ringleader” of
the Toronto 17 when the MP visited a Jamal’s mosque
last summer. MP Khan recalled, "[Jamal] went on saying
that we don’t need him [MP Khan] here, that our
government is telling us what to do and that the
Canadian troops in Afghanistan have gone there to rape
Muslim women."

In the halls of “justice”, parliament, and the
newspapers rang a new truth… that opposing Canada’s
occupation of Afghanistan is equal to terrorism, or at
least supporting terrorism.

The proven success of this racist and Islamophobic
campaign shows in the voices of people across Canada
on AM talk-radio call-in shows. Many of us have been
fooled. Many do not see the refusal of democratic,
civil, and legal rights to the Toronto 17 as an attack
on “our” rights – because we have been fooled. We do
not see the attack on the democratic rights of all
Muslims to express their opposition to the
government’s war drive as an attack on “our” rights –
because we have been fooled. This is the poison of the
racist and Islamophobic campaign of the government and
war mongers; they are dividing working and oppressed
people in Canada along the lines of race and religion
so that we cannot defend our collectively held rights.
This divisive campaign pops and explodes in attacks of
race hatred and Islamophobia like the June 4th
vandalism of a Toronto mosque.

In the very moment of the racist and Islamophobic heat
wave, the deputy director of the Canadian Security
Intelligence Service (CSIS)’s pronouncement was
released that about 90 percent of immigration
applicants from Pakistan and Afghanistan in the past
five years have not been sufficiently screened for
“security concerns.” The lesson is, of course, that
more restrictions are necessary to curb the threat of
“terrorism” that comes to Canada with Muslim
immigrants. Restrictions like Security Certificates –
a Canadian legal clause that allows the arrest and
indefinite detention of non-citizens of Canada for
suspicion of involvement in “terrorism” without
evidence or charges. Coincidentally, the
constitutionality of Security Certificates are set to
go before Supreme Court on Monday June 12th – just
over one week after the arrest of the 17.

NO TO ANTI-MUSLIM FEAR MONGERING! DEFEND THE TORONTO
17!

Under government driven racist and Islamophobic
hysteria, the Toronto 17 do not stand a chance of a
fair trial anywhere in Canada. For working, poor and
oppressed people in Canada, the real threat to our
“security” does not come from oppressed people –
Muslim or otherwise. The clear and present danger to
our security, our civil liberties and democratic and
human rights comes from a government that is using the
frame-up case of the Toronto 17 as a cover-up for
their war drive in Afghanistan, and their assaults on
the rights of working and oppressed people in Canada.

Mobilization Against War and Occupation (MAWO) calls
on all organizations and people committed to the cause
of peace and social justice to take a stand against
the government of Canada’s war drive, and against this
racist, anti-Muslim arrest of the Toronto 17. We must
stand in defense of the democratic, human, and civil
rights of Muslims and all oppressed people in Canada.
In the case of the Toronto 17, these rights are what
really stand trial.

End Attacks on Muslims!
Defend the Toronto 17!
End the criminal occupation of Afghanistan!
Stop the Canadian War Drive!
Stop all attacks on the rights of immigrants and
refugees!

-------------------------------
Mobilization Against War and Occupation - MAWO
www.mawovancouver.org
[email protected]
604-322-1764

[gnosis]

Whoa.
WHOA.
WHOA!!!!

*ahem*

Although, this can be spun as a US-style propagandist hype-drive, I'll not accept this interpretation without further information.

Even though it _is_ more likely that Harper's pro-US versions of life could be behind this media circus, facts must speak for themselves.

Frosty
(needs more data)

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by fable

Here we find the truth.

you mean whatever truth you decide to see? we're all blinded by our own biases. you seem to take any chance you can get to jump down the throat of the state. i don't think it would matter to you if there was a mountain of evidence against these alleged 'terrorists'. in every post i've ever read of yours, you are so biased against government that anything they do or say is going to be wrong. this so-called terrorist arrest thing only happened a week or so ago and in your post you talk as if you already had the whole thing figured out.

in that way, i don't really find your arguments convincing, even though you say some interesting things, because this bias just jumps out at me. it's funny because, i find we think alike, except that you are more extreme than i am. i don't assume that everything the government or police do is based in ill intentions...but i do agree that it is important to look critically at the world around us.

being critical is one thing, but being automatically adversarial is another.

edit: is there any hope that this won't turn into a long-winded, multi-syllabic posting war? because if that can be avoided, i would be very grateful.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by sidekick

being critical is one thing, but being automatically adversarial is another.

quoted for truth

[Goat]

Cover up for the war over yonder? Cover up what?

End Attacks on Muslims!
Defend the Toronto 17!
End the criminal occupation of Afghanistan!
Stop the Canadian War Drive!
Stop all attacks on the rights of immigrants and
refugees!

You're asking for a lot of different things here.

People hate/are afraid of foreigners. Throw in foreigners who don't speak speak english/chinese/taglog/duck/whatever the fuck you speak and who threaten your way of life (real or imagined) and you're guaranteed to have a media shitpot. I think bullshit media (pro,anti,or retalitory) broadcasting, like your post, is more the problem then whether or not some guys got arrested for planning to blow some shit up. The police (Believe it or not, they're not at all dipshits out to get you.) in our neck of the woods don't usuallylock up people for no reason what so ever.

[fable]

Originally Posted by gnosis

Whoa.
WHOA.
WHOA!!!!

*ahem*

Although, this can be spun as a US-style propagandist hype-drive, I'll not accept this interpretation without further information.

Even though it _is_ more likely that Harper's pro-US versions of life could be behind this media circus, facts must speak for themselves.

Frosty
(needs more data)

isnt history/precedent enough?

[Goat]

Nope.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Goat

Cover up for the war over yonder? Cover up what?


You're asking for a lot of different things here.

People hate/are afraid of foreigners. Throw in foreigners who don't speak speak english/chinese/taglog/duck/whatever the fuck you speak and who threaten your way of life (real or imagined) and you're guaranteed to have a media shitpot. I think bullshit media (pro,anti,or retalitory) broadcasting, like your post, is more the problem then whether or not some guys got arrested for planning to blow some shit up. The police (Believe it or not, they're not at all dipshits out to get you.) in our neck of the woods don't usuallylock up people for no reason what so ever.

=Racism + oppression is natural/Dissent is the real problem

sorry mate, im going to have to pass on your latest of opinions.

[fable]

Originally Posted by sidekick

you mean whatever truth you decide to see? we're all blinded by our own biases. you seem to take any chance you can get to jump down the throat of the state. i don't think it would matter to you if there was a mountain of evidence against these alleged 'terrorists'. in every post i've ever read of yours, you are so biased against government that anything they do or say is going to be wrong. this so-called terrorist arrest thing only happened a week or so ago and in your post you talk as if you already had the whole thing figured out.

in that way, i don't really find your arguments convincing, even though you say some interesting things, because this bias just jumps out at me. it's funny because, i find we think alike, except that you are more extreme than i am. i don't assume that everything the government or police do is based in ill intentions...but i do agree that it is important to look critically at the world around us.

being critical is one thing, but being automatically adversarial is another.

edit: is there any hope that this won't turn into a long-winded, multi-syllabic posting war? because if that can be avoided, i would be very grateful.

What is the purpose of this post? Are you calling me out personally? Are you trying to dissect the press release? Are you trying to give me some advice?

Or are you trying to paint me as someone who blindly accuses the government of corruption and oppression without fact? (of which case, i can only reference 90% of my posts on this board to date but apologies for the non committed 10% - im only human) Perhaps 4 years of UBC academia will sharpen my perception of the "real" world?

[esoter1c]

Their so-called training for al kayda was playing paintball in the woods. :285:

I haven't seen any proof of anything from either side, so, once again....

www.whatreallyhappened.com ?

[Ragga_Wh0re]

im with fable on this one.

amonium nitrate on its own is useless as tits on a bull.You need like kerosine or some other excellerant to compound it with in order for things to go boom.

The way it looks now it most definately is a witch hunt and its only a matter of time until we start to feel the reprocussions out here on the west coast.

Stephen Harper and his government have planted the seed of fear in Candians,now watch the tree grow.

[The Chucksta]

[quote=Ragga_Wh0re]im with fable on this one.

amonium nitrate on its own is useless as tits on a bull.You need like kerosine or some other excellerant to compound it with in order for things to go boom.

The way it looks now it most definately is a witch hunt and its only a matter of time until we start to feel the reprocussions out here on the west coast.

Stephen Harper and his government have planted the seed of fear in Candians,now watch the tree grow.[/quote
]

kerosine is more accesable than amonium nitrate

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

amonium nitrate on its own is useless as tits on a bull.You need like kerosine or some other excellerant to compound it with in order for things to go boom.

Actually with ammonium nitrate you need more then just kerosine or something to make it go boom....Fuels may catch fire or what not however what really triggers the ammonium nitrate to explode is a series of a chain reaction.. Often one would need a blaster cap or something used to cause a mini explosion that will trigger a more effecient explosion. However with the grade of the ammonium nitrate that they had they would either need to crush it down or purify it by boiling it to get the proper results. You have to understand that after even before 911 authorities have been monitoring sales of quantities of ammonium nitrate ever since of the oklahoma city bombing. Whats wrong with this picture if that you have individuals who live in the middle of a metropolitan suburb purchasing 3 tons of ammonium nitrate and none of there occupations involve anything to do with agricultural purposes which where ammonium nitrate is generally used for.... So ya the authorities have every right to suspect anybody with that amount of ammonium nitrate that doesn't own a farm or deals with landscaping or agricultural means to use that ammonium nitrate for possible bomb making material...

I guess the way you can put it is the way how you can only buy certain quantities of chemicals such as acetone. Acetone of course being one of the main ingredients on producing crystal meth used to be available in large bulk items however not anybody and now when you do buy in large quantities most places will ask for your drivers license and social security number and everything...

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by fable

What is the purpose of this post? Are you calling me out personally? Are you trying to dissect the press release? Are you trying to give me some advice?

i was just interested in your use of the phrase 'here we find the truth'. i thought that was kinda interesting, considering that, at this point (and maybe never), we don't know 'the truth' about this situation. we don't know what's going on with the 'plots' and the 'terrorists' and the 'investigation tactics'. we just know what we choose to believe and how we shape the few things that we know using past experience and perceptions.

everyone has a bias. you, me, the pope. i think it's impossible for one person to look at a situation objectively because the human mind seems to be such a jumble of experiences and emotions that colour what 'truth' we see. i dunno, maybe i'm getting too philosophical here.

Perhaps 4 years of UBC academia will sharpen my perception of the "real" world?

oh please, nowhere did i say my going to ubc meant that i had a better grasp of the 'real' world, or whatever. i don't believe that. i go to school because i find the stuff interesting. i like sociology and i like creative writing. but i certainly don't think that it means i know anything more about the 'real' world than anyone else. i'm sorry if it came off like that, but that's definitly not what i was intending.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Actually with ammonium nitrate you need more then just kerosine or something to make it go boom....Fuels may catch fire or what not however what really triggers the ammonium nitrate to explode is a series of a chain reaction.. Often one would need a blaster cap or something used to cause a mini explosion that will trigger a more effecient explosion. However with the grade of the ammonium nitrate that they had they would either need to crush it down or purify it by boiling it to get the proper results. You have to understand that after even before 911 authorities have been monitoring sales of quantities of ammonium nitrate ever since of the oklahoma city bombing. Whats wrong with this picture if that you have individuals who live in the middle of a metropolitan suburb purchasing 3 tons of ammonium nitrate and none of there occupations involve anything to do with agricultural purposes which where ammonium nitrate is generally used for.... So ya the authorities have every right to suspect anybody with that amount of ammonium nitrate that doesn't own a farm or deals with landscaping or agricultural means to use that ammonium nitrate for possible bomb making material...

I guess the way you can put it is the way how you can only buy certain quantities of chemicals such as acetone. Acetone of course being one of the main ingredients on producing crystal meth used to be available in large bulk items however not anybody and now when you do buy in large quantities most places will ask for your drivers license and social security number and everything...

point taken.

however,the whole sting op done w/the ammonium nitrate seems kinda sketchy to me.

This whole thing kinda reminds me of 9/11 in the sense that the "terrorists" accused of flying the planes into the WTC and the pentagon were all alive and well less then what like 3 or 4?

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

point taken.

however,the whole sting op done w/the ammonium nitrate seems kinda sketchy to me.

This whole thing kinda reminds me of 9/11 in the sense that the "terrorists" accused of flying the planes into the WTC and the pentagon were all alive and well less then what like 3 or 4?

well keep in mind that they also found unregistered firearms.... and they already found cell phones and walkie talks rigged up to be used as a remote detonator.... Let along how csis was monitoring there move's online as per the information they were seeking.

[fable]

Does Canada have "entrapment?" within its judiciary system?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by fable

Does Canada have "entrapment?" within its judiciary system?

it was illegal, now it's not, wanna buy some crack ? :285:

[fable]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Actually with ammonium nitrate you need more then just kerosine or something to make it go boom....Fuels may catch fire or what not however what really triggers the ammonium nitrate to explode is a series of a chain reaction.. Often one would need a blaster cap or something used to cause a mini explosion that will trigger a more effecient explosion. However with the grade of the ammonium nitrate that they had they would either need to crush it down or purify it by boiling it to get the proper results. You have to understand that after even before 911 authorities have been monitoring sales of quantities of ammonium nitrate ever since of the oklahoma city bombing. Whats wrong with this picture if that you have individuals who live in the middle of a metropolitan suburb purchasing 3 tons of ammonium nitrate and none of there occupations involve anything to do with agricultural purposes which where ammonium nitrate is generally used for.... So ya the authorities have every right to suspect anybody with that amount of ammonium nitrate that doesn't own a farm or deals with landscaping or agricultural means to use that ammonium nitrate for possible bomb making material...

I guess the way you can put it is the way how you can only buy certain quantities of chemicals such as acetone. Acetone of course being one of the main ingredients on producing crystal meth used to be available in large bulk items however not anybody and now when you do buy in large quantities most places will ask for your drivers license and social security number and everything...

Hmm, you wouldnt by chance know anything about flying a plane would you?

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by fable

Hmm, you wouldnt by chance know anything about flying a plane would you?

does microsoft flight simulator count?

[gnosis]

Originally Posted by fable

isnt history/precedent enough?

No.

Although I generally side w/ your views and stances, I'm just too jaded to accept anything without some kind of proof.

Frosty
(standing by...)

[miss.myra]

Hmmm.

Is this going to get more people to support the war efforts in Afganistan? Not likely. It's just going to make the voices of those who have always supported it a little bit louder.

There is a larger percentage of Canadians who think this happened because of involvement in Afghanistan than who actually support millitary efforts there.


Anyways, it's not uncommon to not release all supporting evidence this early in the trial stage to the public, not with something this big. As well as if investigations are pending and more arrests are to be made, then releasing all of the evidence in place would inhibit further efforts.

I realize that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but you really can't say that these individuals have their hands totally clean until the trial has taken place.

[gnosis]

^
A VOICE OF REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take note, kids!

Frosty
('allo, Miss!)

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by fable

Does Canada have "entrapment?" within its judiciary system?

yeah, but it can only be used as a defence during an appeal, i think.

also, entrapment is when the police entice someone into doing something criminal that they wouldn't have done without the police talking them into it. for example, it was used in this case where the police badgered this kid into selling them some weed and then arrested him after he finally sold them some. it would only work in this case if the defendents could prove that the cops enticed them to buy the fertilizer stuff. otherwise it's not entrapment. if the police just provided them with the fertilizer and didn't talk them into buying it, then it's just a sting operation.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Hmmm.

Is this going to get more people to support the war efforts in Afganistan? Not likely. It's just going to make the voices of those who have always supported it a little bit louder.

There is a larger percentage of Canadians who think this happened because of involvement in Afghanistan than who actually support millitary efforts there.


Anyways, it's not uncommon to not release all supporting evidence this early in the trial stage to the public, not with something this big. As well as if investigations are pending and more arrests are to be made, then releasing all of the evidence in place would inhibit further efforts.

I realize that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but you really can't say that these individuals have their hands totally clean until the trial has taken place.

Release all supporting evidence sure, slander no. The prosecution just won a court appointed media gag order, so if and when the defendants are vilified it becomes too late, the damage is already done.

You cannot look at this issue as only one individual case (although this seems to be the trend with a large number of injustices in this country) If you aren’t connecting with the current environment that we continue to repeat the same mistakes and the same injustice occur and increase, right under the collective noses of the status-quo-ndp-social progressive circle jerk.

I find this discussion interesting in one major critical since. That being, how many incidents in the past that involved great crimes against humanity found a portion of the population such as some of the people speaking in this thread - the very people who seem to fail to understand that such crimes against humanity could have been prevented, if people connected historical oppression with contemporary symptoms and resisting the urge to downplay such oppression.

A year ago no one knew anything about Canadian Security Certificates in spite of various movements across Canada calling out attention in countless aggressive campaigns. Now its prime time news. And while the lazy, self serving careerist bullshit status quo left sat on the issue, five men spent time in solitary confinement far beyond the stipulation of international law.

And what is the best retort that the essentially immobile and irrelevant sql comes up with? Remarks about conspiracy and tin foil hats.

If your ignore history, that you accept ignorance. If you ignore contemporary resurgence of history/or historical oppression that you are perpetuating it.

Wake up.