May 15, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yoko-Ono
Quote:
Maybe you could enlighten me. As for my nick, I just asked if I could get it changed from Klaus to Sun or sungoo and that they did. I asked a whiles back, I just didn't want to pester them constantly to get my nick changed. and deviant art, hrmmm... I'm definately interested in that. maybe when I get my new computer next week and I start playing around on photoshop again, I'll put some stuff on there... 
|
|
May 15, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
Well the issue got brought up in one of my tutorials actually, we didn't really 'explore' the idea in detail so I couldn't really give you a good one, but I mean there are a lot of people out there with diverse views so there's no doubt that there's gonna be a woman that's gonna tell ya that sex is an empowering thing...
For example, some people would argue that the way some women dress, i.e. "revealing" and "suggestive" clothing is offensive to some women, and that it contradicts everything that "women have fought for RAHRARHARHAHRHA", whereas you could also argue, that the fact that women can choose to dress in the way that they most identify with (whether it be 'skanky' or conservative) is a feminist statement in itself.. ie-long time ago in the lands of harsher patriarchy women were expected to behave in a certain way, and to subordinate to the will of the man. Today, a woman can dress the way she wants to.. sure, she might get looked down for it but the fact in itself that she has the CHOICE, the fact that she may CHOOSE to dress in a way that may or may not please her male peers is a sign that things have changed... You can either view "lack of clothing" as a reflection of promiscuity or the "Appreciation of the feminine form"..you know what I mean? Last edited by yoko*; May 15, 03 at 11:33 AM.
|
|
May 15, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
but see, maybe I missed something but I don't see how it's empowering to dress in a way that is subrodinate to the will of the man. Cause if you were to dress slutty, even if it is the style you most identify with, to me, you make yourself appear inferior. to me anyways. I just don't see how even choice is very empowering. I mean, I do see that it shows that more opportunities are opening up to women but I mean in the end, hrm... actually I'm not even going to go into the whole choice thing as the viewing of the matrix 2 has furthered my philosophies on choice... anyways, here is a parralel thought. ie - A man with a gun, is he powerful? Now a man without a gun, is he powerful? To me, a person who can take a struggle upon him/herself without the chance of destroying their selves physically or mentally or those around them. If they can do it with out anything physical. ie, weapons, clothes, I think that is true empowerment. Cause what happens if you take the gun away from the man, or those types of clothes away from the girl? They have grown so accustomed to relying on these things as power that when you lose them, you don't know how to react to certain situations. That is why I believe those types of things are a false sense of power. True power comes from confidence, from inside. Another small thing, if you're truly strong, would you necessarily need to show people that your strong? Would you need to yell and scream so everybody heard you? To me that is what dressing slutty is. It's so blatant and in your face. I don't know... maybe I read too much into somethings.
|
|
May 15, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
haha I can tell that you THINK WAY TOO MUCH..
I understand what you mean in that you don't require a gun to necessarily be powerful.. that analogy is kind of, actually, very different to having a choice of clothes, but I get what you're trying to get at.. but let me also present to you this though.. Lesbian women were once not allowed to get married by law, according to your theory a legal vow of marriage is unecessary, and you don't require the law to justify or to acknowledge a couple's vow to one another... In your view, why should what the law says, MATTER? Well it does matter. Allowing injustice towards lesbian/gay couples is the same as allowing such ideologies of anti-gay/lesbianism to remain. People would justify their hatred towards lesbians/gays by saying that "it's against the law". Even if changing the laws may not necessarily change the views of those at the top who may disapprove of lesbian/gay marriages, any PHYSICAL VISIBLE change is a sign of hope. In order for something to change, the ideology for change must first be set forth... changing a law is like changing an idelology... Anyways women's freedom to choose is a reflection of change in the ideologies towards women. You might think that the freedom to choose may not be empowering, but when you are deprived of choice, i think it's a totally different issue. Another example would be women's education. It once used to be INCONCEIVABLE for a woman to receive an education. But think of education as the gun. Men had the gun, and women didn't. So easy for man to shoot a woman down (scuse the pun)Lack of education for women meant low literacy rates.Low literacy rate meant inability for women to move up in the social hierarchy. Men were the breadwinners cause they had the means to earn the bread. They, had the gun. Once women were ALLOWED into instutitutons of education, only the most wealthiest of women and the most stubborn/persistent could make it through. Learned women were seen as FREAKS OF NATURE because of the belief that was once justified by "science" that women were irrational beings, incapable of receiving education. But these women who did receive an education were able to earn status within their society... education is now a choice. you may not choose a gun to take your enemies, you may choose to face it empty-handed but it sure as hell is better when you have a choice. I don't like thinking too much, I'm done. Last edited by yoko*; May 15, 03 at 11:44 PM.
|
|
May 15, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I personally, don't skank out in my clothing... I personally don't choose to flash my boob-crack at other men... but I think that women should dress the way they want to. I admit, that when I see a hoochie'd up girl I think "wtf" but it doesn't impact me so much that I'd rag her out for being an anti-feminist.. You know, taking simple issues such as clothing to a deeper level can lead to very annoying questions.. I was even thinking about how it should be socially acceptable for women to walk around topless during the summer. THat in itself can be seen as a feminist statement. Why? Because who SEXUALIZED the breast in the first place? MEN. Female breasts should not be considered a private part if male nipples are not considered so. IN fact, women's breasts should be appreciated fully for it's nurturing function for babies.. INFACT it is a SICK THING THAT WE HAVE SEXUALIZED nature's nutrient bearing milk jugs! See what I mean?
|
|
May 16, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
hah, It's too bad you do not enjoy thinking too much...
I have this odd feeling you are a feminist yoko :p I'll leave our discussion with one last thought. I just want to clear something up. I never meant to imply that all women thought about feminist history when they were shopping. I just think that when a girl gets all hoochied up, she's unaware of the destruction that she's creating. as you're getting annoyed, I'll be done as well.
|
|
May 16, 03
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm not annoyed at ALL, no worries... OK I don't HATE thinking, cause it's good for a my brain.. but I'm just not used to forcing myself to think as much as I used to. I used to make all these long-heart-felt posts on heart2heart that I used to put so much thought into.. until the quality of posts went down on the forums in GENERAL and I saw that my effort made no difference anyway.. After a while it's easy to just become bitter and care less.
errm, i don't consider myself a feminist. Despite all that I've mentioned above, it doesn't mean that it all reflects my personal view. Not always are the perspectives I raise, my own. I just like seeing things in different ways. I don't identify myself as a feminist because I stand up for myself as an individual, and not as a woman. I expect equal respect by people, and not specifically by men... if I'm ever confronted by a chauvinist male, then I'll stand up for myself because I'm being mistreated as a person, and not as woman... I try to respect people as people, not seperately as male, or female. Not all women deserve respect and not all men do either... I am simply a female with views of my own, and if it so happens to be that they are similar to that of feminism, then it's most likely because I am a female in a society in which males still do, in some areas, dominate. I'm only trying to reflect what I see as reality, and if I come across as feminist then that's probably because I'm mirroring a society that still has it's downsides for women. Last edited by yoko*; May 16, 03 at 01:39 AM.
|
