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Feb 21, 07
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Feb 21, 07
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Feb 21, 07
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Feb 21, 07
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Cyber's a lot of fun. I've had a blast everytime I've gone. No complaints at all :)
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Feb 21, 07
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^nice one
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Feb 21, 07
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I've been reading the posts about Cyber. I've met the owners once at Gorgomish and they were really nice. I'm going to check it out this week.
Here's some stuff that might interest the sound buffs amongst you. For the past year I've been rebuilding the whole system at 816 with JBL/Crown & custom designed quad bins. 816 has been a challenge because it's a concrete rectangle with a low ceiling and I can't put a lot of acoustic treatment anywhere. So in cases like this it's all about angles. One of the things that you might want to consider when talking about clubs like Gorgomish is that most of the tonality you hear there has to do with the amount of wood and fabric in the place and how all that marterial reacts to sound pressure as the room fills up, not the sound system itself. Their sound system is actually pretty run of the mill stuff and it's set up in a straightforward way. Quality gear yes, but no Magic sound secrets. Just good room design at the start. A wood room will always sound warmer. However you'll also notice that the trade off for them is reduced stereo separation. It sounds great and I like to dance there but it sounds like mono. The general rule is the same for a nightclub or a studio. In fact a good dance club design should be treated like a recording studio with a dance floor. The more time you spend on the room the less problems you will have with your sound system. That's also partially why clubs like Sonar have never sounded good no matter how much gear they use. Most club owners out here only build good "looking" venues then slap a sound system where they can fit it. This works for top forty & rock but not as well for electronic dance clubs. Hence, the real secret to good sound has more to do with room design than anything else. The more reflective surfaces like big flat concrete walls you have the harder it will be to tune your sound system when the room is at various capacities. Equing won't help much. In fact Most of the time Equing is just a band aid solution that fixes only one problem at the cost of another and just takes you further and further away from the original recording. Just go listen to the sound at Richards to understand what over-equing will do. There you will also painfully learn why Rock sound guys can't do techno. Acoustic issues is something you can also easely check for example if you come to our club early. We are in a concrete basement, and when the room is empty the room can sound much brighter. This has to do with the fact that we have 3 concrete surfaces and one semi-absorbent ceiling and there's little you can do to stop sound waves from bouncing around all over until people get there. The lower frequencies will go right through the concrete, but the higher frequencies will bounce around the room and create problems. It used to be unbearable when I first started working there 3 years ago. And it's taken a lot time to find the right placement for the flying wedges to try a spread the power around while reducing ear fatigue. Now it's starting to really sound good in there. But I still have work to do in the back area were all the younger crowds hang out. Over time it seems the best compromise I have found is to put more speakers around the dance floor at various angles to spread the energy around without each speaker having to scream to cover long distances. I've had to compenssate by modifying the throw of the flying bins and creating special bass bins that can concentrate most of the bass within the dance floor area. If you look around at our system when you come to the club you'll see what I mean. everything including the custom bass bins, is built at a specific an sometimes odd angle. There's a reason, it helps break standing waves and reduce phase problems. You'll find that on our floor you can pretty much walk around anywhere and it will be loud but it won't hurt you.There are a few dead spots I am still working on, one major one is on the DJ booth side all the way along the wall to the back smoking room entrance. Also our system never distorts, Ever. I've designed our system to be more powerful than the room can take and I limit the system output to around 80%. So nothing ever redlines. Red lights are bad, people who light them for fun are dumb. The only thing that can happen is that the system will cleanly reproduce any distortion that The DJ may induce at the Mixer stage. I've also inserted stereo pads in between the CD players and the mixer inputs to reduce to posibility of the DJ overcranking the gain stages, As unfortunately most DJs do. Even some Pro don't know anything about setting up proper gain stages for their tracks (red light syndrome again). Pioneer mixing DJs are usually the worst for this. Also keep in mind I actually use very little overall compression and no gating. Once again those are poor solutions that you should only set up as a last ditch protective measure. I limit my sound output by properly setting each gain stage along the audio path from the mixer output to the crossover stage. compression/limiting should only be used to protect your speakers, and has NOTHING to do with making the system "sound" better. In fact poor stereo compression will make your sound muddy. Your recordings have dynamics and you should try to preserve them. In any case, sound system design for dance music is pretty specific and not a lot of guys here in Van can do it. Most people like myself usually go on to do architectural work which is way more money, I'm a DJ so that why I use my audio engineering skills in the club scene. I don't advertise but I'm easy to find and I always help others in the industry. So If you're stuck & I can give you some advice for Cyber let me know. [email protected] Cheers Lace
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Feb 21, 07
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i would LOVE for you to work on the cyber system, but you would be there for years for sure. same goes for Plaza, the sound is 'good' as in no distortion, and not too much hi end, but you can barely hear the midrange (vocals), there are serious phaze issues (i think that's what i'm hearing wrong) and the physical distance between the speakers and bassbins creates this very strange sound in each track. at least for drum and bass it does. there is only one small part of the dancefloor where you can hear the tracks the way you should. everyone seems to think it's a wicked setup, but while i'm not saying its BAD, it's definitely not Atlantis (which i believe is also your doing Lace?)
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Feb 22, 07
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I worked on the Mars system, I think for Atlantis they added a set of 18" drivers.
I hope my post didn't read wrong. I can't do sound for anyone as a gig, each club needs a sound man and I have a full time gig at 816. But as a budding sound enthusiast, If you have a question or I can help you guys solve a problem that's totally cool, just email me. Cheers Lace
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Feb 22, 07
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Lots of fun playing there last night, thanks to everyone who showed up. Great crowd. =)
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Feb 22, 07
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now, i wouldn't go as far to say that my ears rung more after going to cyber though. but i don't really remember. the last time i was there, was for scot project. (close to 2 months ago. o__O) but besides this, i think the setup/design of cyber is great. no complains there. oh my gosh. moreso the location! :) i mean, it's pretty convenient for me. my friends will go to plush (or any club downtown for that matter) for their mainstream bullshit, & i am able to simply go next door to hear my love. = ) it's too bad that the plaza of nations is closing down this summer (or so i've heard). since i'm fairly new to this scene, it would've been nice to experience this little jem (cyber) more. but ehhh. what can ya do. =/
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Feb 22, 07
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and just because the plaza of nations main building is being repaired/closes, that doesn't affect plush and cyber i'm sure.
i find it funny how people who like trance think that cyber is awesome, and everyone else thinks it needs work. It's not about to stop anyone from missing shows, but it could be improved for sure
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Feb 22, 07
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Mar 01, 07
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