Wut is your opinion of...

[Rhianna]

Originally Posted by Jingles

I get angry at the men who get all up in this topic as if they can ever possibly understand what it would feel like to have to choose to kill a child in your womb

no matter what, no matter how powerful your parental love is, no matter how strongly you feel one way or the other - a man will never know what it feels like to have to choose
and i am not really sure that no matter how many times i say that, that some people will ever understand how hard that choice is

Ahhh thank you!

I've had so many stupid guys say stuff like "I'd make my gf get an abortion". I can't stand it when they pretend to know what it would be like to find out you were pregnant and then have to make a choice. It's easy to say when you know very well that it'll never happen to you.

[Niko]

In a world of dumbness and backspace hitting, I just lost 500+ words I wrote in response to this thread.

Sigh. Either way, being a philosophy major and just having finished my Ethics course, I got sucked in.

People should read some very important arguments on these topics:
-John T. Noonan, "An Almost Absolute Value in History" - 1970
-Judith Jarvis Thompson, "A Defense of Abortion" - 1971
-Mary Anne Warren, "On the Moral and Legal Status of Abortion" - 1973
-Rosalind Hursthouse, "Virtue Theory and Abortion" - 1991

Warren's article is probably the most important, since it is likely the greatest single philosophical argument that worked towards the actual functional legalization of abortion (and why it should be legal, immoral or not). It is also the one I have had the hardest time finding online. I'm going to try and scan it and put it up... goddamn copyrights.

Anyways, I will summarize my perspective:

I do not like abortion. Whether the fetus is or isn't a 'person' — a morally important being — before or after some point, it is unlikely that science, religion, or common sense will be able to satisfactorily find that point. I think that unless the health of the mother is at stake, or the child is sure to be abandoned (we're talking adoption-not-an-option), that the preferrable way of dealing with unwanted pregnancy is adoption. However, unless the child's rights outweigh the mothers, there is no egalitarian argument for requiring the mother to sustain the child, much less to give up her own life for it. Therefore, since it is the mother's body that must sustain the child, it is her rightful choice whether or not to allow it.

Please search out those articles, ask me to photocopy/mail them to you, or take an ethics course if you're actually interested in this topics. Too many people scream "abortion is murder!" or "pro choice!" for there to be much of a public cogent understanding of the varying possible moral situations abortion stirs up.

[Joanne]

^^ ahhh! I remember reading those articles for my moral philosophy class.... I think I may actually still have them!

these are articles are great because they allow you to see both extreme sides of abortions (ie. where at one side, even the use of condoms and contraceptives are considered abortion; and at the other end where abortion up until before labour is ethical). it is a real eye-opener and really forces you to look at both sides of the issue and may even let you see points that you may have never even thought of.

however when you are finished doing all the readings, the bottom line seemed to be that how people view whether or not this fetus is a living being is not intuitive. you can use all the arguments in the world, but unless your ideas on what a fetus is the same, you cannot reach the same conclusion.

--Joanne :P

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by daze_e

abortion is murder.
but if you cant support the baby then
you should get one.

ok, first of all, read your words before you post them
and second, you're still a baby yourself, come back to this discussion when you start having sex and then we'll talk.

[Rytalin]

Originally Posted by Niko

Whether the fetus is or isn't a 'person' — a morally important being — before or after some point, it is unlikely that science, religion, or common sense will be able to satisfactorily find that point.

Actually, it could be around the 49 day mark.
There's been a DMT surge in measured in the developing brains of many fetuses around 49 days after conception... this is pretty much in perfect sync with what the Tibetan book of the Dead says about the death/rebirth sequence. You die, go thru the other side, heaven, hell, whatever for 7 of our weeks, then get reborn.

This isn't exactly traditional science, but there's alot of stuff traditional science can't really explain.

All I can say is go read 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule'.

:D

[-ff-]

I think the answer to that question is a little too complicated to fit into a simple 'yes/no'

[MissBehavior]

I believe that it's a choice that every woman should be allowed to make. Hell, I know people who have taken ALL the precautions (condom, pill, MAP) and STILL got preggers. I know that I am in no position to raise a child and give it a decent life at this point in mine, and I KNOW that I wouldn't be able to carry a baby to term only to give it up. That would sink me into god-knows-what-depths of depression and possible suicide. I know that in my heart. I know that there are alot of other women out there who feel the same way. On the other side of the coin, I know that there are women out there who would lose it if they had an abortion.

I DO agree that it should NOT be a form of birth-control. In fact, everytime women have one, it opens the cervix a little bit more. If a woman has enough of them, she actually won't be able to hold a fetus to term if she ever wanted to.

It's not an option for everyone, but it is an option for some and it is an option that thould be readily available when necessary.

[robyn]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If I ever get pregnant, feel free to shove me down a flight of stairs.

[Rytalin]

Originally Posted by robyn

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If I ever get pregnant, feel free to shove me down a flight of stairs.

http://rytalien.tripod.com/steve_lynch-Forthe_ladies.mp3