Week 6

[sNyx]

The F&K clothes are ready. What do you consider the easiest way to get them?

[bob]

store would probably be the easiest/fastest way for me to get it... ALTHOUGH i really don't wanna see F&K gear in stores... that's just stupid, cuz 98.4% of the ppl looking at the clothes WON'T be a member of F&K... they'll be 12 year old teeny bopper girls that "heard" that Ra House was "THE store to shop at"... and i really don't wanna see ppl like that sportin' the F&K gear... i know ur tryin' to make a buck and all, but i think u should be a little more concerned about the 500+ members of F&K who would like to keep their dignity, and pride in F&K...

can't u get some kinda online billing thing? not just money orders...? i thought u were "THE MAN" snyx...?

[sNyx]

well we discussed online orders, but we thought that maybe 10% of the members on the site have access to credit cards, so there really is no point to go though all the trouble (ie. processing, secure orders, ect) so I don't think so, maybe in the near future.

as for the store ideas, we have been planning to pump the merchandise to stores for some time, but then when ya think about it, you are right, we are doing just that, "merchandising" and kinda not focusing on the members. its a 2 sided coin, but we also hope that the clothes also help bring in new members.

snyx

btw, yeah, im the man.

[bebe]

well.... i think that the f+k clothing should not be sold in stores.... bc of what bob said....cause that will happen i think... and also, the stores prob would charge more... like a service charge or something... like they do with tix.......
so i think winstons port-o-watever... is a good idea...like u can have a few official f+k clothing venders......(f+k members... not stores)..... and money orders too....
so i think.... venders and money orders..... are both good ideas... and they would both work.....

~elmar

[dragon boi]

i dotn think that they should be in stores
just like what bebe amd bob said the store would charge more
winston's port a store is way better
i be up for that

[MC Hammered]

Unfortunately due to business reasons as there are only 500+ members compared to thousands of people who shop in stores, a store location is ultimately required.

I'm not saying that the clothes will be sold in department stores, but in specialty locations.

As for the cost issues, we are planning to do everything we can to keep costs down, but if for some weird reason it does cost more in a shop, the cheapest way to buy any F+K product is online or via MC Hammered's Port-a-store.

If F+K are to improve and offer its members things, this requires money. Honestly speaking, 500 members can only buy so much merchandise. If you want some exclusive items, nothing is saying that there won't be items for sale only online.

Think of it this way, all those people that buy the merchandise due to the fact it looks cool will be supporting all the things we have planned for the people that support us every day.

Guess you have to trust me on this one.

Of course, none of these decisions have been set in stone.

[sNyx]

well said winston

[bob]

the only way i can see people in stores buying F&K gear is... if they go to the store, see an F&K.com hoodie... wonder what the hell it is, go home, check out the site, sign up, post for a week or so... go back to the mall, and get the hoodie...

REALITY CHECK: this of course DOES NOT HAPPEN, and if it does, i'd say it's business you DON'T WANT.

80% of the time, this will happen: kid goes to store, checks out F&K hoodie, doesn't know what the hell it is, and doesn't really wanna wear something that has a website URL on it, especially when they have no affiliation to this site (yahoo.com tried the whole t-shirt thing... does anyone see 16 year old kids wearing them? no)

20% of the time, if you're lucky, this will happen: kid goes to store, checks out F&K hoodie, doesn't know what the hell it is, but the logo is kinda cool, goes home, checks out F&K.com, signs up, becomes a total pain in the ass trying to fit in member, posting crap as a last resort to grab some kinda attention, then... a) if they fit in with the F&K.com "crew" they'll feel like they're part of the little clique, and probably run back to the store and grab the damn hoodie... or b) face the harsh facts of life, which are: YOU DON'T BELONG HERE ON F&K.COM, THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE IS BECAUSE YOU SAW A HOODIE IN THE MALL WITH YOUR 16 YEAR OLD MISS TEEN USA WANNABE SKANK FRIENDS, YOU HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO POST BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER PARTIED IN YOUR LIFE.. YOU JUST SIT AT THE MALL ALL DAY DRINKING BBT AND STEALING T-SHIRTS FROM OFF THE WALL... they will not return to the store, and they will not buy the hoodie...



FACE IT, your market is teens, aged 13 - 19... thanks to capitalism, you have NO chance in a mall... mallrats want: Nike, Adidas, Ecko... NOT F&K...

the whole E-Business hype exploited the idea that ANY small business had a chance against large corporations... i.e. billybob's_trailer_of_used_books.cjb.net vs. barnes&noble.com

this idea does work in a sense... not the sense that David will sell more than Goliath, but in a sense that at least they can sell SOMETHING rather than being completely blown out of the water...


i understand that there are stores like LARAMY, that sell their own local brand... but honestly, how successful is their franchise? when they first opened, anybody who bought a pair of their pants, was granted a perma-20% off discount... they cut that idea off 3 months down the road... that can't be a good sign... anyways...........


here's my idea...

seeing as F&K managed to gather 500+ members (approx. 375 who are active posters) with NO funds thrown towards advertisement... most members are here from word of mouth / lex telling LX'ers to come here, etc... the site is steadily growing, as is the community on it... by JUST selling F&K gear online, there will immediately be a jump in sales... most of us have been anticipating the gear for a while now, and personally i've got cash set aside for when it's available... sales will slow down after that first jump, but WHAT EXACTLY IS THE REAL GOAL OF F&K GEAR ANYWAYS? u can't possibly believe that you have any chance of becoming a large distributor of your own line of clothing... you're just 2 DJ's... does paul oakenfold, carl cox, pete tong, ltj bukem have their own line of clothing? probably not... i hate to burst anyone's bubble... but my pessimism is STRONG ... and it is FIERCE... anyways, back to the "idea"... alot of our members will be sporting the F&K gear, and since most of us are partykids, our F&K gear will be exposed at parties, no? given the average overly flyer'd party these days at the CCC or wherever, you've got a 500+ attendance... that's 500 ppl whose eyes have possibly been exposed to the "form-kaos.com" URL... and since the majority of ravers are trying to express some kinda "PLUR" (although that majority is fading RAPIDLY), they are constantly walking up to someone (usually when they're high nonetheless), and saying "hi! ... what did you pop?" or in someone walking up to an F&K member, the case mite be "hi! ...i like your hoodie, what's f&k.com? ok cool i'll check it out when i get home, what's your handle?" blah blah blah... U SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT RITE? word of mouth is INEXPENSIVE, fuck... IT'S FREE! and it's a HUGE thing in the rave scene...



fuck i gotta run... i'll argue about this later...

[MC Hammered]

Bob,

I (speaking for myself and not for all F+K crew) appriciate your input. I'm not going to try and answer all of your points but I'll try and explain what we are trying to do.

First of all your pessimism doesn't hold water with me. If someone said 'Winston, why bother starting your own computer firm? There is just too much competition and you won't survive. You are too young, inexperienced and have no idea what you are getting yourself into.'

I was 22 years old and had my goal. I told everyone who said I couldn't do it to watch me and see what happens. Within two years I was clearing $75,000 doing business MY way. What is that? Excellent customer service, great product and good prices.

I know this can work if it is approached the right way. We have our plans and we all feel that the goals are achieveable. I am not expecting F+K to make us all millionaires, but I do believe it can help make things happen.

F+K is more than just two DJ's, clothing and the web site. We have envisioned what is CAN be and now have to right people in the right places to make it come true. I myself rather take the chance and fail than wonder what would life be like if we tried.

I see people buying F+K clothing in a store this way: They see F+K clothing in a store, it looks nice (or else they wouldn't have noticed it in the first place), good quality and check the price tag and it's very reasonably priced. So why not buy it? We are trying to give people a quality piece of clothing at a good price. I think this will appeal to the masses that work hard for their money and don't like overpriced 'labelware'.

Remember, I said the clothing WILL NOT be in department stores, but shops like FF, Bassix, Hypnotik, Obstuction. We aren't going up against giants, but there is room for small players in the market.

Not all of the clothing will sport the url on it. I know that some people do not like to 'promote' companies in this manner so some of the pieces will have the choice of having the url on it or not.

I have taken the F+K images to many shops and during the journey turned a lot of heads, young and old. IMO, people could give a shit about who makes a piece of clothing as long as it looks good and priced right. I rather buy a nice t-shirt with a sharp logo for $20 over a Nike one that costs $30.

I agree with you about word of mouth advertising. In fact, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it wasn't for that one fact alone.

To answer your question of "WHAT EXACTLY IS THE REAL GOAL OF F&K GEAR ANYWAYS?"

The goal is to help promote the site and at the same time help fund other ventures like music event, stickers, CD production, other clothing lines (summer and winter), snowboards, slip covers, etc.

In other words, the goal is to get the ball rolling and go with it as long as there is momentum. I feel that the people involved with the project have more than enough energy to keep it going for a long time.

[bob]

from a business perspective, i would somewhat agree with you...

you wrote:
"I see people buying F+K clothing in a store this way: They see F+K clothing in a store, it looks nice (or else they wouldn't have noticed it in the first place), good quality and check the price tag and it's very reasonably priced. So why not buy it? We are trying to give people a quality piece of clothing at a good price. I think this will appeal to the masses that work hard for their money and don't like overpriced 'labelware'. "


how exactly can u provide the product at a low price? you have no buying power. you don't sell 20,000 shirts a day, you don't get HUGE wholesale discounts, and I HOPE you're not having your merchandise produced in a 3rd world export processing zone for 3 cents a shirt... cuz then i'd just FLIP THE FUCK OUT... and have you done any "cool hunting"? do you know what appeals to the masses, or are you just convinced that it will sell because "ravers" are supporting it...? i may have been out of high school for a couple years now, but i still see what goes on... kids still have to have the most expensive shoes/shirts/hats/etc...

you wrote:
"Remember, I said the clothing WILL NOT be in department stores, but shops like FF, Bassix, Hypnotik, Obstuction. We aren't going up against giants, but there is room for small players in the market."

granted, Nike, Adidas, and Reebok are out of the picture... that still leaves VIBE, TRIPLE5SOUL, LARAMY, PLACKA, ECKO, etc. i'm really tired rite now, even DIESEL manages to sneak in occasionally... but you are right to an extent... there is STILL SOME room for small players in the market...


--------


but honestly, that's not what i'm fighting about... so basically, i shouldn't even dip my nose into this... because half of me wants to see form & kaos become a success. cuz that is their goal... you guys have visions of big bucks, and your names immortalized... that great... a capitalists dream...

the other half of me doesn't want to be sold out.

i will be truly crushed if/when F&K becomes a huge success, and everyone that cashed in on the "company" is living it up in their mansions, and with all that money lying infront of their faces. when they can't see past that. they can't remember who the fuck that bob guy was. that's what's gonna hurt the most... when the big guys forget about the little guys, the little guys who were there from day 1, don't even feel like they're part of anything special anymore because half the country is wearing a logo that means nothing to them. the little guys who see the F&K logo more as a flag, and this message board as their homeland... think of Cheers... "you wanna go where everybody knows...your name *dododododododo*"... i doubt too many people around here have dreams of a simple life, living in a place where u can walk down the street and wave to everyone with a smile on your face and know their name, phone number, or what they had for dinner last nite...... but i've got prozac dreams like that... so i fucking fear capitalism... especially when it hits close to home... EVEN MORESO when it lands in the rave scene... cuz now i feel like the whole damn scene is turning on me... it's like we're all just a bunch of 3rd rate hippies with daddy's wallet, and a lower tolerance to corporate takeover, and it just keeps getting lower and lower with every pill we pop... seems like everyday, capitalism creeps deeper and deeper into the rave scene... and it's really sad to see people who you thought were alongside with your counter-culture, turn around, stab u in the back, and sell you out.

[MC Hammered]

how exactly can u provide the product at a low price? you have no buying power. you don't sell 20,000 shirts a day, you don't get HUGE wholesale discounts, and I HOPE you're not having your merchandise produced in a 3rd world export processing zone for 3 cents a shirt... cuz then i'd just FLIP THE FUCK OUT...

You are correct, we don't have buying power, we don't have a huge market to sell to and NO, our clothes are not made in 3rd world countries for pennies.

However, we don't have to make 200% profit on each piece of merchandise either. The goal is to make enough profit to cover costs (obviously) and whatever profit is made is fed back into the manufacturing process to help fund the next order and so on. Maybe we'll only get to recycle this plan once, maybe 1000 times, but that's all we can do to increase the amount of product we can make.

Profits are not everything. Money is not everything. Money is however, something that can allow F+K to do things we could only talk about before.

and have you done any "cool hunting"? do you know what appeals to the masses, or are you just convinced that it will sell because "ravers" are supporting it...? i may have been out of high school for a couple years now, but i still see what goes on... kids still have to have the most expensive shoes/shirts/hats/etc...

Have I done any extensive market research to see if our product might be purchased by our target age group? No.

Have I done ANYTHING that might resemble research to see if anyone might buy our product? Not really, although I've carefully noticed the initial reactions of strangers when they see our designs for the first time.

Other people looked at our designs and told me that they are terrible and WTF was I thinking. Other people really like it.

We are taking a leap of faith that we can make something out of this. Maybe we can succeed big time, maybe we'll just putt along, maybe I'll look back and say 'Bob told us so'.

I'll let you know in six months what the answer will be.

but honestly, that's not what i'm fighting about... so basically, i shouldn't even dip my nose into this... because half of me wants to see form & kaos become a success. cuz that is their goal... you guys have visions of big bucks, and your names immortalized... that great... a capitalists dream...

the other half of me doesn't want to be sold out.

I have been through the very process that you fear and hate. I worked for a small company that became very successful, very fast. When I came onboard, I busted my ass for the company because I felt that I was part of something special. When the company got REALLY big, politics and money became the focus and I got stabbed in the back and let go from the company. Why? Because I was 'not suitable for the position' even though I was the person hired to create the position in the first place. I WAS the prototype. The real answer? I took too much glory from someone elses halo. I stood in his path to the next level of 'success'.

I've learnt a lot from that experience and I look back at the company and the 'money' they dreamed of and watch their stock price plummet to the point where the employees shares aren't worth much right now. I could turn around at laugh at them, but why?

The people that do not understand where their success was borne from are not truly successful.

The people at the top have to understand that it is the people below them that got them to where they are.

I don't ever expect F+K to turn their backs to their loyal followers, and honestly, if they do they deserve to burn in hell. This isn't going to happen as long as I am around.

You have to have a little faith in us my friend.

[kiMMie]

Sorry Bob, but as one of the investors...I have to agree with Winston...

We're just trying to make a goal a realistic one. We have strategies and ambitions to try to make "F&K Clothing" a little more popular...thus, promote the site, and the DJs themselves...

We know what the target market is like...and I understand how people feel about not wanting the clothing publicized to the "non-members", I feel the same way a little - wanting it to keep it "unique", not too mainstream...

But this is how business is run...this is how we get more investors and supporters for the clothing line and F&K...Remember, the focus here is "form&kaos" themselves, NOT just the clothes, NOT just their website...We are aiming to promote them, and their music, and their work...

I hope you guys understand this....if not... :014:

[bob]

yes... i understand...

i just don't approve.

[bebe]

im with bob here..... yeah u wanna promote the site and whatever... but think abt it, the site is nuthing without its members.... and therefore, i think u should consider abt the members....and also... it'd be cheaper for everyone if u dont put the clothing in stores... so thats what i think...

~elmar

[stabmyhead]

to be honest. i am too damn lazy to read all the posts right now but i skimmed through a few.. and i get whats being argued and what not and i say....

why not sell the hoodies and such at a lil stand when you guys are having the parties/gatherings? i mean classified 3 this weekend, and im sure there will be other parties/gatherings put on.. and you guys could sell them there.. i mean when winston showed me the f&k hoodie at classified 2. i coulda bought it right there. im just wondering.. didnt you guys say that we would get our names put on them? what ever happened to that idea? im guessing if you sell them in the stores.. they wouldnt have names on them would they.

although i hate to admit it.. but i agree with a lot of what bob had to say. i kinda selfishly get pissed off when someone that doesnt know shit all about something and wants it anyways.. i could just imagine a conversation...

me: "oh. i see you got an f&k hoodie. whats your name on there? im stabmyhead btw."
girl: "wtf. f&k? whats that? i thought it was a lil mockery of the word fuck*giggle*"
me: "uh.. right.. f&k is an online message board. notice the url on the side.."
girl: "URwhat? what'd you call me? online message board? you mean like internet and stuff?"
me: "err.. yes... *resisting urge to ram blunt object in her eye*"
girl: "your name is stabmyhead? what kinda name is that?? that isnt cute at all... "
me: "you have 3 seconds to live. 3! *EXCESSIVE PAIN COMING HER WAY*"

okay. so maybe thats not what would happen exactly.. a mild exagerration. but still!!

.stabitout.

oh. btw. i vote for having clothes vendors or winstons port a potty or something if we cant do the selling at parties idea.

[stabmyhead]

for some reason.. as i was reading over this thread.. it reminded me of when ppl started partying.. or when parties first started out.. kinda underground, not much flyers, more on word of mouth. everyone was so intimate and close. and plur was in good use and wasnt used by hoochied out lil 14 year old girls that heard some "raver" say it and thought it was a new drug. relation to this? f&k was really brought to its 500 members by word of mouth. at least thats what i think.. members came. liked it. told their friends or what not.. well k. my story of how i got here is a lil different *cough*. it was more intimate and close, as the site grew, some old members kinda faded away as they were drowned out by new ones (kinda like how the transvestites and such left after all the 'hardcore ppl' came in. at least thats what i think happened...) and as the popularity of f&k grows, the less intimate itll get. and pretty soon itll turn out like plaza is for raves. k. sorry if i offend any plaza goers with that last comment. ;]

heres a thought. what if they buy the hoodie and then check out the site and dont like it and go to return it.?

paul frank has that stupid monkey, gap has the brand, off the wall has their song brand. nike is well nike. fine. you know, they are major corporate companies with lotsa mulah and slave workers. its not really that personal cuz every second person owns one of those companies clothing, and the brands arent as intimate. i mean, what do their names represent? nike = sport, paul frank = lil rich asian plaza girl. gap = preppy. song = hehe. k im not even going to get into my stereotyping. i dunno what im getting at really but i dunno this is gonna sound kinda bad but, most ppl might not wanna wear something about 2 djs.. i mean if they liked the djs. cool. cuz itd be buying a band shirt. a shirt of your favorite band or what not.. but if you put it in a store, what do you think the percent of shoppers do you think will know who form or kaos is? refer back to my "isnt f&k supposed to be a shortened form of the word FUCK?" sure enough. it is your clothing line and you could do what you want.. no sense arguing cuz im stubborn and wont change my mind..

most ppl that arent on here will just see f&k = 2 djs.. but the members here will know that f&k means a whole lot more..

im rambling so ill stop now.

.stabitout.

[dragon boi]

ok please
i just want
2 shirts (r they t shirts or sleved shirts??)
one for me and BB
red for me and white one for BB
oh stickers too haha
i just want to spend a lil cash hook me up please

[ƒORM]

F&K Clothes

I'll give my 2 bits worth of feedback just because I want to clear up some rumors and myths. This post should answer some questions that a few of you might have.

The first run of clothes are done and so are the stickers (blue,red). If you want them please contact MC Hammered on the site as he will do his best to get you the clothes/stickers. If it's not possible I will be dropping off gear to several stores maybe just to hold for members who can drop by to pick them up. As for the names on clothing: I can place your custom name on the gear for you if you like. My cost for designing a screen (that can be used over and over) is $25. Once you've paid that it will only cost you $5.00 everytime you want it on a shirt/hoodie + the cost of the garment, this will make all your clothing 100% personalized and will show that you are a true member to f&K. If you can't afford to pay that then your only option is to find another place that will personalize t-shirts and hoodies. If you do find a place please let all the other members know and leave me a message too so I can write something about it. There are many idea's for clothing and we have only begun. The initial press run was meant for members only. That's why they aren't in stores. As time goes on we may consider keeping certain clothes exclusively for members and some for general public. We realize that many of you are happy to be a part of f&k and we certainly want to keep all the members happy. The money raised from the clothing is immediately redirected to other investments relating to f&k. It paves the way for new features, better servers, clothing designs, clothing production, cd production, f&k parties, f&k contests and lex's nasty coke habit (J/K!!). But honestly it's not going in my wallet or anyones elses. It's revenue that will be used to expand f&k and it's members. Trust me I'd love to have some crazy contests going by Sept/Oct like giving away $1000 dollars of merchandise. But in order to get to that stage we need support.

As for the clothing becoming global:
It's true I've been talking to people in Toyko, China, UK, Australia, US and Jamaica who would be willing to book us if we drop in for a week on Vacation. So to say we're gonna remain locals all of our lives and stay in Vancouver is not true and it will certainly not quench my thirst for travelling. If i get a chance to play abroad I'm going to represent Canada to the fullest by laying down the phatest fucking set i've ever spun. We've focused on Vancouver a lot during the last year and aren't about to throw it all away or forget about all the little people (as previously stated). Every town has it's locals and some become liked or respected more than others. Some just spin and others give back more than they take. Chances are that if you make a good impression in a foreign city, you can slowly build on it and gain some rep.

Hope that helps...

~Form

[bob]

wow! PR skills and a nice butt...! lol...

i like the customized shirt thing... i was gonna suggest it, but thought i mite be pushing it... budget wise... i don't suppose the mods could get an "f&k staff" shirt...? lol...

u've answered most of my questions... my concerns are my own problem, don't worry bout that...

[KrAzYRiCeBoY]

I'm a new member to this site...But my thoughts on this is...Sure if I was on this site for a while like many of you who are...Why not go out and purchase a F&K clothing line? Either it be a T'shirt...Hoodie or what not! :Kimmie: I would totally show support for this forum...Already I get a sense that this site/forum community of members has a great possitive attitude compared to others! Show support amongst this special group and especially if your a fan of the 2 Dj's...

That's my 2cents on this...*hehe* :)