Question regarding mix etiquette

[jono]

I was recently approached by a bar/restaurant manager to come up with some appropriate CDs for background music at a bar. I figured that I have a huge collection of mixes and they would be way better (and less effort) than any mix CD that I could make myself.

Would you be offended if you heard your mix playing at a bar without your permission?

These mixes would have all been obtained by free downloads endorsed by the DJs themselves or would have been bought and copied by me but are "Promo use only" (so I shouldn't have had to pay for them myself) because the DJ didn't clear all the tracks they use.

Any of these artists that I know a way of contacting I will.

Also I'm not making any money from this (except maybe free beers cause I'm friends with the manager) and no one will be receiving any credit for the mixes except the DJ who made them if someone asks what's playing.

Am I totally off base thinking most DJs would be fine with this?

[Gusto]

i don't think they could ask for better publicity (free especially).

[-evil-duerr-]

i think it would be common courtesy to ask of their permission.

If you have the decency to ask, I'm sure they would be thrilled to know that they're work is getting played out for a crowd.

Just let them know first, to avoid any problems altogether right.

[nabs]

as long as you dont pass it off as your own mixing. it should be fine. and if anyone asks, just let them know where its from.

[Phrenetic]

this is my opinion.

i would be offended and rather pissed if my work was being shown without being asked, and its not really a promo if my name/contact isnt attatched to the mix, much like the personal promo forum is set up.

if my name/contact is on/near/ontop or said before duing or after the mix is being played or let people in the place know that these mixes were done by a person than it would be allright mabey.

so you a little off base...

but hey whocares?

[Wood]

all questions of etiquette aside, it's illegal to play any copies of copywritten music in public without obtaining a license. So if you bought a CD it's okay, a copy of a CD or an unlicensed mix CD is not okay.

that said, this goes on all the time without much risk of legal intervention. and if a DJ puts a CD out there... i don't think there's any rule (aside from the law) saying you can't listen to it where ever you like.

[jono]

Originally Posted by Wood

all questions of etiquette aside, it's illegal to play any copies of copywritten music in public without obtaining a license. So if you bought a CD it's okay, a copy of a CD or an unlicensed mix CD is not okay.

that said, this goes on all the time without much risk of legal intervention. and if a DJ puts a CD out there... i don't think there's any rule (aside from the law) saying you can't listen to it where ever you like.

What bugs me about this is that I can purchase an unlicensed mix CD and legally not be able to play it because someone else broke piracy laws somewhere down the line.

And essentially a DJ publicly playing a mix CD that they created and paid for every track they used on it is illegal? But if they do the same thing "live" it isn't.

Also, is there a definition of "public"? Cause I can't be drunk in public outside but I can play all the mix CDs I want but then I can be drunk in public in a bar but I can't play mix CDs. Doesn't this definition have something to do with profiting from the copywritten music?

Sorry I didn't really want to talk about the legality of this but I think the law in this situation is so archaic.

[-evil-duerr-]

wether its licensed or not.

thats a dj's work. and if its good enough for you to wanna have it played out.

i think its good enough for the dj to be recognized. that's just being polite.

[dj_soo]

really kind of depends on the dj - if it's me, I wouldn't mind so long as I was credited properly.

And yes, it is illegal (making unlisenced mix cds and distributing them in any way - even giving them away - is illegal). But then again, the chances of anyone caring too much is incredibly slim. J-walking is illegal too and so is marijuanna...

[jono]

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

this is my opinion.

i would be offended and rather pissed if my work was being shown without being asked, and its not really a promo if my name/contact isnt attatched to the mix, much like the personal promo forum is set up.

if my name/contact is on/near/ontop or said before duing or after the mix is being played or let people in the place know that these mixes were done by a person than it would be allright mabey.

so you a little off base...

but hey whocares?

Originally Posted by dj_soo

really kind of depends on the dj - if it's me, I wouldn't mind so long as I was credited properly.

And yes, it is illegal (making unlisenced mix cds and distributing them in any way - even giving them away - is illegal). But then again, the chances of anyone caring too much is incredibly slim. J-walking is illegal too and so is marijuanna...

By all means I think the DJ should be credited properly, but other than telling people who ask what's playing, is there anything you can do in this situation?

I really can't see a bar/restaurant giving a shoutout to their background CD every hour. Does this leave mix CDs to personal listening only?

[mekim]

have a way that the bartender could point at something and say "that's who made this" -- make it so it is zero work for them, ie. something on a computer screen that's responsible for playing the mp3.

don't listen to phrenetic, he won't even call out some no-name dj who apparently was playing his mix in public.

[Pegasus]

if it was me, i'd be totally fine with it as long as i knew about it..
if i didnt know about it and heard my mix, i'd probably ask where they got the cd and make sure i would be credited..

but still i think if every track on the mix was purchased either on vinyl or another way like mp3, then its legal for it to be played in public.
same case with the dj actually spinning in public.. its ok for a dj to play it if was purchased..

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

but still i think if every track on the mix was purchased either on vinyl or another way like mp3, then its legal for it to be played in public.
same case with the dj actually spinning in public.. its ok for a dj to play it if was purchased..

yea um - you're wrong.

it's legal if you're a dj performing but as soon as it's recorded, it needs to be licenced. Period.

[Wood]

yeah you have to own & use an official copy of a recording to be able to play it. once you make a copy you need a license. the exception is, if you buy a CD or LP, you're allowed to copy it on to one hard drive for use with a Serato type device. but still you must own a copy of the recording as released by it's record label. i don't think these laws are archaic, they're designed to protect artists & labels from theft. The way organizations like the RIAA go about enforcing these laws is heavy handed in the extreme, but the laws themselves make a lot of sense to me - even though i violate them daily.

if you do choose to play unlicensed DJ mixes in your establishment though, i don't feel there's any obligation to credit the DJ. If you play a regular CD, or music from a satellite radio system, are the artists credited? if a customer wants to know, they can ask. it seems rediculous to me to put up a sign saying "you're listening to DJ ___", if anything the artists who's records they're playing should be credited.

[Phrenetic]

Originally Posted by Wood

yeah you have to own & use an official copy of a recording to be able to play it. once you make a copy you need a license. the exception is, if you buy a CD or LP, you're allowed to copy it on to one hard drive for use with a Serato type device. but still you must own a copy of the recording as released by it's record label. i don't think these laws are archaic, they're designed to protect artists & labels from theft. The way organizations like the RIAA go about enforcing these laws is heavy handed in the extreme, but the laws themselves make a lot of sense to me - even though i violate them daily.

if you do choose to play unlicensed DJ mixes in your establishment though, i don't feel there's any obligation to credit the DJ. If you play a regular CD, or music from a satellite radio system, are the artists credited? if a customer wants to know, they can ask. it seems rediculous to me to put up a sign saying "you're listening to DJ ___", if anything the artists who's records they're playing should be credited.

im going to do a mix, drop it in cool-edit/vegas/sonar and have the preset robot guy with a delay and heavy reverb saying "your listening to phrenetic from teh richmonds" every 20 seconds.

but seriously, if you where to point people to fnk if they liked the mixes we can all be happy!

[Pegasus]

fair enough.. i'm not an expert in law, i admit :P

i did learn though that it is fully legal to play vinyl live, as long as you purchased it all.

[MatSM]

Listen to Wood, he's got it down.

Playing an unliscenced mixtape without crediting the DJ who mixed it would be like bootlegging a bootleg. I'd be more worried about ripping off the artists whose tracks are on that mix rather than ripping off the dj.

[jono]

Originally Posted by Wood

yeah you have to own & use an official copy of a recording to be able to play it. once you make a copy you need a license. the exception is, if you buy a CD or LP, you're allowed to copy it on to one hard drive for use with a Serato type device. but still you must own a copy of the recording as released by it's record label. i don't think these laws are archaic, they're designed to protect artists & labels from theft. The way organizations like the RIAA go about enforcing these laws is heavy handed in the extreme, but the laws themselves make a lot of sense to me - even though i violate them daily.

if you do choose to play unlicensed DJ mixes in your establishment though, i don't feel there's any obligation to credit the DJ. If you play a regular CD, or music from a satellite radio system, are the artists credited? if a customer wants to know, they can ask. it seems rediculous to me to put up a sign saying "you're listening to DJ ___", if anything the artists who's records they're playing should be credited.

I agree that there should be law protecting the artists but I think there's so many situations where this 'one copy to your hard drive' doesn't apply. What if I want a copy on my hard drive, one on my mp3 player to and a copy to play on my CDJ? etc. It seems a bit much to have to buy multiple copies of something you own for your own use or to play out.

Then again I guess it's a lot like marijuana laws, they're there, but not really enforced unless you go to an extreme.

[jono]

Anyways, thanks for your feedback everyone. I figure I'll run it by people if they're easy to contact but I'm not gonna bend over backwards to reach someone half way across the world to tell them their mix may be played in a small bar in Vancouver.

[mugsy]

its a little bit different, but im a painter. if someone used artwork they got off of me at some public establishment, permission or not, and they told when asked that i was the creator id be more then over joyed. publicity rocks my socks.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

really kind of depends on the dj - if it's me, I wouldn't mind so long as I was credited properly.

And yes, it is illegal (making unlisenced mix cds and distributing them in any way - even giving them away - is illegal). But then again, the chances of anyone caring too much is incredibly slim. J-walking is illegal too and so is marijuanna...

I got a jaywalking ticket just before I left Van. Apparently cops don't like it when you flyer a ghost car.

[Senior]

just giver, fuck the haters, lol.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by jono

I agree that there should be law protecting the artists but I think there's so many situations where this 'one copy to your hard drive' doesn't apply. What if I want a copy on my hard drive, one on my mp3 player to and a copy to play on my CDJ? etc. It seems a bit much to have to buy multiple copies of something you own for your own use or to play out.

Then again I guess it's a lot like marijuana laws, they're there, but not really enforced unless you go to an extreme.

It's called "Fair Use". And basically what it means is that you can copy all you want, really, but you can't distribute.

And that's really the heart of all the copyright debates within the government. It's not really so much the copying that they have a problem with. In fact, it's technically illegal for a recording company to say to me that I'm not allowed to copy something I've purchased for backup purposes. They can put copy-protection all they want, but until we have a Canadian version of the DMCA, I'm allowed to bypass that protection so that I have an archival copy of my music.

So this is why RIAA and like-minded organizations are actually attacking the people who are making the music _available_ to others, so essentially the people that are sharing the music.