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Jul 13, 02
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101 Dumbass Audio Queries
Okay MC Hammered and those up to it...
#1. What are the benifits of crossovers, digital bass maximizers, pre-amp line drivers, and other processors? When would one want to use these - ie. in what kind of setup and under what circumstances? Crossovers apear simple, but are new to me. More extensive the info the better! THANKS! 
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Jul 13, 02
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#2. Current car we are working with is an '89 Plymouth Reliant (AKA "K-Car"). Sky Blue. 59,000km. Immacualte condition. Self installed alarm system. Great Grandmaz old ride. Aquired less than 2 weeks ago for $500. (Real competition material!)
-Big trunk. -3.5" in-dash. (Currently stock) -5x7" rear-dash. (Stock also) -Alpine V12 MRV-F302 4 Channel Amp mounted in trunk (Thanks to Toad Princess). -Brand new JVC Arsenal Series KD-SX8250 deck. *50 W x 4 Max. Power Output (19 watts RMS) *CD Changer modes:2 Random Play, 2 Repeat Play and 2 Intro *Scan modes *Plays CD's /CD-Rs and CD-RW *CD Player Intro Scan *Direct Disc Select (1-12) *HS-II Tuner. European Switchable Tuner *18FM+6AM Presets *Multi-Color LCD *Front Panel Auxiliary input *Auto Dimmer *Remote Control Included *Detachable Control Panel *Rotary Encoder *Power-Off Eject *Built-in Custom Equalizer *Red/Green Key color illumination *Front/Rear/Subwoofer Line Level Outputs@ 4 Volts *Subwoofer Level Controls *Digital Clock [http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...X825&display=L] -Inline fuse for amp, wires, wires, wires.... etc.. blah blah blah I am open to cutting holes in my doors if need be, and there IS some space, but I'd prefer to work with the chrysler size and placement of the speakers in the cab. Speakers are next on the shopping list. So I need some advice as to what will take advantage of the power and provide wicked sound, all at a decent price. I am hoping this can be done for $300-400...? Preferably lower even! For instance, if anyone knows of anything that sells for below what it's worth! While considering this, keep in mind that sooner rather than later I will be putting some pump in the trunk for the real low end. In my ideal world it will sound good if I let the 3.5's take care of the highs, the 5x7's lookin after the mids, and the subs crankin the nasty bass! (This is where the dedicated subwoofer volume control in the deck will come in handy!) Is this a pipe dream or will that setup turn out alright? So, again, query number two was regarding speakers... brands, models, prices, stores, etc...
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Jul 13, 02
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#3. SUBS
You now know the car. So 1 woofer or 2? 10's, 12's or 15's? What is the difference between a straight up box and a band-pass? For personal enjoyment (rather than show or competition) what brand suggestions do people have for fairly priced subs and amps? If I have a double wide box I can mount it in the trunk facing foward or back. Which is preferred? I have seen it both ways, and heard differing opinions (often depending on whether it is a sedan, SUV, hatchback, etc). I am hoping to get a used setup for the subs. Just seems SO SO SO much cheaper! And if I can hang on til the end of summer, I have been promised TWO 12" pioneers w/ a pheonix gold strapped to its back for $200!!!!!!!!!!! Fukkin rights!
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Jul 13, 02
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#4. Caps.
What kind of power do you need to be drawing to neccesitate a cap? And an in depth report on the piece would be appreciated.
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Jul 13, 02
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Re: 101 Dumbass Audio Queries
Quote:
Sub crossovers are low pass (passes low freq.) from 120Hz down. This prevents the sub from trying to reproduce freq it cannot handle which will in turn damage the woofer. Also, if the speaker is limited to reproducing the freq it was designed for it operates more efficiently. Component speakers use a crossover in order to split the freq between the midbass driver and the tweeter, once again to send the freq to the speaker designed to do the job best. Digital bass maximizers like the legendary Epicentre take harmonics from approx 40 to 80Hz and rebuilds the bass from 40Hz and down to make things really shake. It creates the notes that are normally lost during the recording of the music. Some like it, I don't as it doesn't do anything other than make the car shake. A preamp are VERY useful as it boosts the signal BEFORE (the PRE part of PREamp) it hits the amplifier. The benefit of this is that it increases the signal to noise (s/n) ratio so you do not have to jack up the gains on the amp itself. If an amp runs with the gains in mid position it is running in its optimal range so it isn't being overworked and will reproduce the signal better, you get better sound and the until doesn't heat up. My Alpine 7909 has 4V preamp so I have enough of a signal coming out of it that I don't need a seperate preamp. Make sure your amp can take a higher voltage signal to maximize the benefit, most only accept up to 2V and forget about the rest. Other processors like spatial enhancers, like an Audiocontrol ESP2 and ESP3, are pretty cool but are not needed if you position the speakers properly. They take parts of the left and right music channels and create a phantom third centre channel or makes your soundstage appear to go beyond your car doors. This is great if you have a improperly setup system. With a properly designed and tuned system the soundstage and the centre image are already defined and these gadgets are not required. Bottom line is that you want to make the signal path from head unit to speakers as CLEAN as possible. My system comes close with CD->EQ->amp>speakers. If I can get a built in parametric EQ into my McIntosh then I'll have one of the cleanests paths you can build.
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Jul 13, 02
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Quote:
Angling and placement of the speakers is key. Most people just shove them into the dash and have them reflect off the glass but that creates more reflections which cause sound cancellation and your image gets distorted. You don't need lots of speakers for good sound, I thought I did with my first car. I had a pair of Soundstream SS5.1 in the door, pair or SS4.0 coaxial and SS8 sub in the rear deck as a midbass driver and a pair of SS12 subs. 10 individual speakers is slight overkill and took forever to tune well. Now I run a set of Dynaudio System 340 components (7" midbass, 4" midrange and 1" tweeter with 3-way crossover) and a pair of ID 10's for bass. This setup sounds WAY better than what I had before in my other car. My advice is to buy the best speakers you can afford, good brands are AVI, Clif Designs, Dynaudio, KEF, Focal and JL. Remember, the speakers repoduce what is sent to them, garbage in, garbage out. Since you have the deck already use it but spend the extra cash on a good amp and speakers as you can always take these into your next ride. Anyway, I think if you get a pair for 5.25" components and a pair of subs run off a decent 4 channel amp your do fine. I ran my entire system off a 4x50W McIntosh MC420 and it POUNDED. i was impressed by the juice it output. The 5.25" are better than the coaxials due to the fact they seperate the signal to individual speakers and are more flexible in mounting. Listen to a bunch of brands and buy the ones that sound good to YOUR ears. I like Dynaudio due to the fact they sound 'neutral' meaning they do not sound bright and do not add bass to the sound. Bring music that you know and use it to demo the speakers using an A-B switch. Tell the salesperson to fuck off and you set the sound levels. All music speakers sound decent at high volumes, this is why they turn up the volume at A&B, Ralphs, etc. Make sure you demo the speakers using the same head unit and amp, not one setup one one set or equip and one set on another. Even thought the amps might be the same brand and supposed to be 'identical' in reality they never are. Pick a few brands you like and go back a couple of times to make sure they sound the same then if the price is right then buy them. For subs, once again, it is up to what you want them to do. If you have them put into a tuned ported box, they go lower (deeper bass) if you put them into a sealed box you get snappier, tighter bass.
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Jul 13, 02
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Quote:
10's are great all around subs, snappy, reproduces punchy bass really well and are small. Problem is they can't go really low due to their size. 12's go lower than the 10's but give up performance in the misbass due to the increase in size as they can't move as fast. Same for 15's, 18's and 21's. HOWEVER, these characteristics can all change depending on how the sub is mounted, is it in a sealed box? Ported? Bandpass? Aperiodic? Do you want boom or do you want bass? Decide then I'll answer the question more clearly. Sealed boxes are the smallest, reproduce tight accurate bass as the woofer cone is restricted from its range of movement. Ported is good as well, bass goes lower as the woofer and port are tuned to work together, you drive the woofer past the tuned freq of the port and the bass will sound like a fart though. Bandpass boxes reproduce bass from a section of the bass freq. Great for certain types of music that max out at the freq they work at. Anything outside this 'band' the bass drops off and doesn't get reproduced well. In a hatchback, most people have the box fire away from them and reflect off the rear hatch. What this does is allow the bass signal to travel as long as possible before it reaches your ear so if sound better. Haven't you heard a car which has great bass OUTSIDE the car but there is no snap INSIDE it? This is because the sine wave is being completed outside the cae and you only hear part of it inside.
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Jul 13, 02
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Quote:
The battery can only provide power so fast. For example, if you have a bunch of bass notes playing you might notice that the initial few sound great and the ones after sound muddy. THis is because the battery cannot replenish the current supply fast enough to power the amp which in turn powers the speakers. This is why your headlight might blink at higher volumes. This is why people have secondary batteries in their car. Anyway, what I cap does is provide a source of power to the amp. It sits between the amp and battery. Since the cap charges very quickly, it can release the stored power inside of it to the amp, charge up again and repeat this action as required. The higher the capacitance rating of the cap the more storage power it can store. There has always been a debate between one big cap ot a bunch of smaller ones wired up in parallel to create the same capacitance. IMO, you probably can't tell the difference between these two setups. You can tell the difference between a system with a cap and one without. If you turn of a system without the music will sound better at lower volumes that at higher volumes. One with a cap should sound the same regardless of volume setting as long as you are not clipping the music signal at the amp. All systems can benefit from a cap, there is no set rule but a estimate is 1/4 farad of capacitance per 100W of power. If you have more capacitance that output wattage it just means that the possibility of the cap being fully discharged during music play is lowered.
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Jul 21, 02
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Question #5
Muchos apprecianato for all the above!!! :multi:
Here is the plan that I came up with today (which is fully open to alteration and complete turn-around): The summer job that I have just gone back to, seems to only hire employees that exchange their paychecks for car audio. So after shifts I've been wandering around and looking at what people are running and asking all the questions I can. The insight is helpful from their layman's point of view, but they (sometimes admittedly) don't know all that they could know. Then I also stopped by Beam Riders today and so a large portion of my plan is based on what they had to offer. [And remember that my intention is just to have a really GOOD (but not *spectacular*) sounding system, that will play LOUD. And that there is something of a budget, but willing to pay what is required to get decent sound.] So thinking, front dash. Put in GTO series JBL 3.5" 2-ways. 25w RMS/75w Peak. 90Hz - 21kHz. $80. Rear dash. GTO JBL 5x7" 2-ways. 60w RMS/180w Peak. 50Hz - 21kHz. $109. Both sets are 92dB and 4 Ohms. In their in store display these didn't sound like anything special and they needed the sub to be on for it to really sound like it's worth listening to. But I guess that is to be expected with such small units. And of course the sound will be drastically different once in the car. These were the ONLY speakers they had at Beam Riders that fit my holes, so no doubt I will be doing much more shopping around. But even Future Shop has very limited selection of 5x7's and 3.5's... I guess I will have to hit up the higher-end independant shops for increased selection. Oh, but as far as future shop, they have Infinity 3.5's for $100 that get great reviews on their site... any personal opinion? So this is part 1 of the plan. I know with this I aint going to have anything resembling an accurate sound stage, but let me know what you think about it. Also, it is tied to part 2, which follows.
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Jul 21, 02
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Part Six
[I appologize in advance for the continued rambling style of my posts] :021:
So going with those JBL's or something equivalant I would then move on to the sub situation. There are many used equipment avenues that I am exploring, but let's run with the plan-of-the-day. I have been told that for an enclosed trunk such as in my sedan a single 10" bandpass would be decent. Supposidly louder than ported or enclosed box, but in exchange sacrificing some of the accuracy. But I wonder if due to the sub being in the trunk if that loss of accuracy would be very noticable after it has filtered through the rear seats... perhaps it may be more distortion than i would guess... i don't know...? And to answer your previous question MC Hammered about what type of bass I want... I would like both a rumble AND boom. But for the meantime if I was forced to choose, I wouldn't even know. I will have to get some instore demos to compare. If it helps at all: I DONT need my car to feel like an earthquake... hrmm... now that I think about it, maybe I would prefer boom that was capable of a little bit of rumble... if that is possible... (a good 10" bandpass would be able to handle that eh? Although I'm sure 12" would be much better suited.) Essentially though, I want to fill in the lows and I want it to pump... I'm sure in time, through experience I will aquire more of a particular taste for what I want. And at the end of the summer I may have the option to buy those 2 x 12" so that would allow me to compare to a single 10" if that is what I go for right now. All the different setups belonging to other people I only hear breifly and not under circumstances that allow me to compare them in any useful way. So if I am doing the 10" bandpass, Beam Riders has JBL packages (all made up by JBL) with the woofer and the bandpass for $250. It is odd because you can't see ANY sign of a speaker inside! It just looks like a wood box. Because it is put together in the JBL factory we can *hope* that the box is designed for optimum performance with the hardware inside! Or they have the ported option for $200 with the same woofer. I arrived at 6:00pm as they were closing so I haven't yet had a chance to listen to them. I figure comparing the ported to the bandpass in the store, along with those JBL speakers would be a good way for me to guage the difference between bandpass and ported (since the woofer and speakers would be identical - of course the amp and placement of the speakers would differ from the actual situation in my car.) -------------------------- Okay... so thus far lets say I buy these JBL items. 2 x 3.5" 2 x 5x7" 1 x 10" in bandpass (don't know the details of the woofer - and I can't find anything that appears to be the same one when looking on their website - I will find out more though.) Then the next question is can I get away with using my current low-end 4 channel Alpine amp to power the sub? I am thinking I would connect the 3.5's directly to the deck. Use 2 of 4 available channels for the rear speakers. (As they can handle more power) Bridge the remaining 2 channels and run them to the sub. The Alpine MRV-F302 only has a total RMS of 120w when running on a 12V battery (30w x 4). So I would be trying to power this 10" sub of unknown RMS-wattage with only 60watts RMS. Is that enough?? It seems low to me, but I don't know. I think I am just used to hearing of people having 300/500/1000w amps... but maybe those are peak ratings rather than RMS. I don't even know what the peak rating is on the F302... there is NOTHING out there on the net about that model. :( I would consider simply bridging all 4 channels and running that into the sub, but the man at Beam riders said 2 was the max, and so since I would have 2 remaining channels that I might as well use them to power the back speakers. Is this true? It would be very nice if I didn't need to buy another amp, since if I get those 2 12's later on they would come with a nice amp - and then I would put my Alpine back to the duty of powering the gear up front. Well... so that is that... now what's the word?
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Jul 21, 02
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#7. To get 30w out of a channel on my amp do I have to have the gain maxed out? Is it at 15w if it is set at the midpoint?
[it's specs say 30w/chan]
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Jul 21, 02
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#8. Setting the crossover.
When setting the crossover on my amp, do I just adjust to taste -ie. til it sounds best to me. Or are there suggested settings for certain speaker specs or for certain tasks. Cause if I understand correctly, the crossover sets the frequency range that the device receiving the signal will opperate at...? but is what i have it set at mean it can't go HIGER than that? or that it can't go LOWER than that? or that it is opperating precisly on that point? like, if my front 3.5's are cracking all the time, I would probably want to limit the low-end signal by using the crossover right? and if I am running a sub I would want the crossover set to send the lowest possible signal that the sounds good with the sub, right? .....? am i learning? or am i lost?
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Jul 21, 02
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I would not buy the front and rear speakers you have looked at and spend the money on one set of 5.25" component speakers for the front.
The components will allow you to seperate the highs from the midbass and provide a more accurate reproduction of the sound. The small tweeter can be flush mounted on the door pillar or on the dash, the midbass driver in the door. This solution proivide for maximum sound quality with the most flexibility for speaker placement. Trust me on this one, this is money well spent. Coaxial sprakers (2-way), triaxial (3-way) and quadaxial (4-way) are compromises in sound reproduction. All of the sound coming from a point source is a great idea but there is no crossover involved so all of the elements are trying to reproduce the entire sound spectrum. As I mentioned earlier, this is bad and inefficient. Also the high freq elements are placed in front of the midbass driver cone so this interrupts the bass wave and distorts the sound. In reality the signal from the front speakers will reflect to the back and provide rear fill anyway. You do not want rear speakers to put out too much volume or else it 'pulls' the stereo image behind your head. This is bad as what we are trying to do is put the image in front of us when we are driving. If you check out some of the high end setups there is rarely rear channel speakers, if there are, the volumes are set low (gains are set low on the rear channels of the amps) in order to limit their output.
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Jul 21, 02
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Now onto the subwoofer.
If you don't know what type of bass you want I would buy a sub and have a ported enclosure built for it for two reasons: 1) A ported enclosure has good frequency response. This means that it is able to reproduce a larger section of the sub bass spectrum without distortion and it is quite efficient. 2) If you plug up the port hole you end up with a sealed enclosure. Just plug the port, open up the box, stuff some polyfill inside of it to reduce the air volume and this will 'tighten' up the bass. What this does is limit the excursion of the subwoofer so it plays tighter and faster. You get snappier bass but sacrifice low end thump. This solution also allows for high power handling (more power = more volume). You basically can get a 2 for 1 solution this way. What a bandpass box like the JBL gives you is a plug and play solution. Drop it in and turn it up and you get bass. The problem is you don't know what type of bass you want so you are stuck with what you buy. Buy buying raw drivers and building boxes you can tune the bass to how YOU like to listen to it. Go here to learn all about box design from one of the masters: Soundstream Check out the SS series sub enclosure designs. They were, and still are today, some of the most wicked drivers money can buy. The varied enclosures they work in show the flexibiliy of a raw driver vs. a pre-made box. Look at the enclosure designs and freq charts. The top flat part of the curves are the freq you will hear the most. If you study them you will understand what I am trying to describe in terms of boom vs bass. 40 to 60hz is boom, 60 to 100hz is kick drum type bass. Back to your problem... I would pick up one 10" sub and start there. It is small so you can build enclosures yourself and play around. If you want more bass you just buy another 10" sub. I have heard cars with one 10" and they pound, obviously if you want lots of bass then start with one 12" sub instead. If you buy one sub ALWAYS match it up with another one of the same brand and model. Do not mix and match speakers or else you will never be able to tune the system. New speakers sound better after the surround material breaks down and loosens up. What this does is allow for better cone travel (excursion) and this equals to more bass. This is whay all speakers should be broken in before installation. This allows for more accurate portrayal of sound when you are trying to place the speakers in the best location. Buying all speakers from one brand doesn't mean you will get better sound, but it does give you easier bragging rights as you only have to remember one brand. :c-tard: *** VERY IMPORTANT!*** The only way you can gauge how a sub sound is in your car, not in the store. Why? In a store the sub is in an unlimited air environment, therefore, it will sound different than in your car. In your trunk the airspace is now confined, imagine a box (sub enclosure) within a bigger box (trunk), this means the sub will sound differently. With components, coaxials and infinite baffle subs this is less of a concern. Infinite baffle subs are ones designed to operate without a box or with your trunk as the enclosure itself. They do not sound bad and allow for the easiet installation of them all, a piece of wood bolted to the rear seat frame and a hole for the sub. Another small box solution is the Kicker Solobaric series of subs. What the designers did was build a sub that acts on isobaric enclosure designs. What this means is a speaker that works best with boxes UNDER ONE CUBIC FOOT! Imagine a sub designed for a box SMALLER than the box it was shipped in.
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Jul 21, 02
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Your crossover point all depends on your sub. If your sub is tuned for 80Hz and down, you set the crossover at 80, 100Hz, at 100.
If you are not sure about the response of your box then a safe bet is to set it as 80Hz and play around from there. When you say your 'front 3.5' are cracking all the time' that would mean you are driving the amp into clipping range. All front end speakers, component and multi axial, and incapable of reporducing the sub bass frequencies. If you set the crossover to 80Hz, the 'high pass' outputs go to the front speakers and anything from 80Hz and below (low pass output) goes to the sub. With your 4 channel amp, it sounds like it can run in 4/3/2 channels. I would run it 3 channel more, 2x30W and 1x60W. You aren't going to set off car alarms but it'll make good sound, better than anything a powered head unit will do. The 2x30W will go to the left and right set of speakers and the 60W bridged channel to one sub. I say one as this is not enough power to drive two subs well. The specs on alpine amps are max power (full volume at max gains), if you get to this point you should hear some pretty shitty sound. The gain setting does not specify how much power you get out of the amp, therefore, a 50% setting does not mean 15W. To setup the amp, set the volume knob of you head unit to 50% (turn the knob from one end to the other and set in the middle) and do the same with the amp gain knobs and tune from there. If you feel you don't have enough bass, turn up the gain a little, but remember, the higher the gain setting the harder you are driving the amp. I ran an Alpine amp for my first setup and it was a 4x40W and it sounded great. You will be surpriced at the sound once the system is tuned well. If you don't mind buying used, go to eBay and try to pick up a Soundstream MC300 (4x75W) or MC500 (4x125W) and this will be a excellent start for cheap. These amp retailed for $1000-$1700 when I bought them and you can pick them up for $100-400 on the used market. They are PURE power in old school amp design. This means HIGH CURRENT, lots of juice when you drive them hard, not like the pansy amps you buy now. The amps are 4/3/2 channel which means ultra flexible for setup. Either amp and run your whole system without breaking a sweat. That is all for now. Time for me to sleep. Quote:
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Jul 21, 02
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I am overwhelmed by all the various options...
I keep spending hours a day researching and window shopping. New and used. Independant pieces or packages.... on and on. And a huge problem is that if you see someone selling a 10" Alpine sub for example - there are a dozen different models that vary in price and quality. And they never tell you the model or the year of the equipment so you can't properly assess how reasonable the price is unless you can somehow gain further information from them. damn nusance
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Jul 21, 02
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The only thing I wouldn't buy used are speakers.
You don't know the environment they were used in, you don't know if they have had the crap pounded out of them or not, you can't tell if they were driven to a point of distortion or not. Not worth buying used speakers unless you know the seller and the setup they ran.
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Jul 21, 02
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Winston does indeed rock the house! Much props! And thanks!
I sincerely hope that there are some others learning something along with me... I'm feeling greedy thinking that I might be the only one taking anything from the words of this generous gentleman. Last edited by DJ A$$hole; Jul 21, 02 at 11:41 PM.
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Jul 21, 02
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... generous and *WISE*
Last edited by DJ A$$hole; Jul 21, 02 at 11:41 PM.
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Jul 22, 02
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I know your most recent piece of advice was to NOT buy used speakers! That that was the ONE single thing that should NOT be bought used... but I'm dumb.
If they are ruined, so be it. But if they are in the shape this guy says they are in, then I believe it's quite a deal. This was the ad in the Buy&Sell: PIONEER TS-C1352 packaged component system, (2) Flush-Mount 5-1/4" 150W Midrange spkrs, (2) 1" Soft-Dome Tweeters, (2) Passive Crossovers, injection molded cone, top notch sound, as new w grills & box, was $299 plus tax, asking $150 obo. ************** Then his email response was: My TS-C1352's were purchased 2 years ago. They were professionally installed when ran off my built-in deck amplifier (40Watt x 4). They have not been "pushed" or abused at all. I traded in my vehicle, so the Pioneers are back in the original box with all the components. They are in mint condition and I will guarantee that they are 100%. I must admit they are a FANTASTIC speaker. I enjoyed the crispness and clarity of the sound they put out. By the way, I am willing to let them go for $135. *************** Of course I don't know this guy personally, so who knows. But after your advice on going component style rather than coaxial, this ad stood out while I was seeing what the Buy and Sell had to offer for subs and amps. Here is the link: http://www.pioneer-racing.com/Pionee...825,50,00.html Any final cautions, or suggestions? Thanks. -A
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Jul 22, 02
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Secondly...
The proposed setup of these... I can't find the RMS handling on them. Any info on them is just copy/pasted from the pioneer website. Should I run them through the amp? Seems like they would be able to take advantage of a bit more umph. I have only worked with coaxials before, so any advice on setup would be helpful! There is room in my doors without cutting metal. Near the front of the door only. Should the tweeters be mounted at head level? Above? Below? Should they face up, to the rear, to the glass? I figure it should be obvious when setting up the crossover, which is the low pass and which is the high pass - but anything else I should know about this step? Thanks 'gain.
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Jul 22, 02
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Let me clarify on the used speaker issue. My post was in reference to subwoofers as your original question was based on a used Alpine sub
The problem with speakers at they are mechanical in nature as they move. Depending on how they are used in the car many things can go wrong, now better quality speakers have a better chance of surviving harsh treatment than cheaply made ones. In your case, if you wanted to buy used components, then do the following: Look at the speaker and play with the woofer cone. Take your finger and lightly push the back of the cone forward and back and 'feel' the resistance of the rubber surround. If it feels tight then they speakers are still in good condition. Look at the condition of the rubber surround material. Is the rubber still intact? Is it soft or is it dry and hard? Are there any tears in the material? Look at the tweeter and make sure the dome is not damaged. It should be protected by a metal grill but some people still extract it and poke them with a finger. Look at the connection tabs on the crossover. Are they still intact? Have they been flexed? Will they break off soon? Basically, examine the speakers and crossover unit, if they look like new then they should be OK to buy.
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Jul 22, 02
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Most component speaker system have ratings from 60 to 150W. This is their 'power handling' meaning how much RMS power they are able to handle before you blow them up.
Since this rating is for their 'red line' measurement, anything below that would be fine. Your 30W of power from the Alpine amp is more than adequate to drive these speakers. Most people believe the more power means more volume, but this isn't the only reason why you should have more power to speakers. More power allows for more clarity on sound reproduction. A 30W setup can sound like a 100W setup, but as the volumes go up, the 100W setup has more headroom available to it so it is less stressed when pushed harder. A simple analogy is a Chevy Sprint (30W amp) vs. a Ford Mustang (100W amp) going up a hill with four people (speakers) in the car. The faster you want to go (sound volume) the cars (amps) react differently. The lower powered one is maxed out trying to keep up and this distorts the output signal as the amp is no longer running in its optimal range but running hot instead. The higher powered amp just chugs along as it has more power reserved to handle these situations. You should have installed the head unit and amplifier first so you have an output signal to play with. Before you install the speakers make sure you have enough speaker cable first. I made this mistake with my first install and it pissed me off that I was 2 inches short from my system working. The first thing you install is the crossover unit. Find a nice, safe place under the dash to securely mount it in. Obviously, you install this in a spot that it can reach the the amp with your speaker cables. Next, you will install the woofer into the door. If the door hole is too big then buy some MDF and make a mounting ring (ring attaches to door, speaker attaches to the ring). If you want to get a bit fancy, you can make a tapered (angled)ring. What this does is aim the woofer towards the driver seat and gives a bit more imaging. There should be 6 metal conntectors on the passive crossover for the components. The input of the crossover is attached to high pass output of your amp, the low pass output of the amp goes to your sub. The tweeter goes to the HI (or however they label the output on the crossover) connections on the crossover and the woofer connects to the LOW connectors. Now you run speaker wire to the woofer from the crossover and if you have to snake it through rubber grommets in the door make sure you buy some corregated tubing from Radio Shack or Canadian Tire to wrap around the portion that is exposed between the car frame and the door to protect it. Run some speaker wire to where you think you MIGHT want to mount the tweeter but leave a couple of extra feet of excess if you plan to surface mount the tweeter (this means it is NOT installed INSIDE of the dash but on top of it): Take some double sided tape and put it on the back of the tweeter. Connect the tweeter to the speaker cable and then stick the tweeter to where you think it might 1) be able to be mounted and 2) where you think it may sound good. The tweeter should be directed toward the driver's head. Of course with this setup, everyone else in the car gets crappy sound (like in my car) but who cares? You are the driver right? Anyway, once you picked a spot then stick the tweeter there and turn on your head unit and listen to how it sounds. The reason for the tape is now you can move the tweeter around to find the best possibile location for sound. Of course you are limited to whatever mounting options you are given. If you do not have surface mount harnesses then you might have to stick them in the dash and bounce the sound off the glass, but this is a worst case scenario.
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Sep 30, 03
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*bump*
In case anyone had questions.
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