drum and bass is better than trance

[kir mokum]

i don't buy it. promoters are the ones who tend underestimate the audience and then under promote or poorly promote their shows with acts that van is familiar with because they don't want to loose their shirts. which i find quite understandable. promoters seem to stick with what they know or what they think the city knows. i personally think promoters need to bring in acts that are fresh and actually different (not the newest hardstep/wobble whatever) but people doing fresh shit either as DJs or as producers (turned DJs). like the calibre show or the london elek show or the elements sundays. [someone needs to bring in fanu or breakage or seba or big bud]. but i think what's been lacking in the past is building and retaining a following that's outside of the ndub/fnk top poster roster. i mean, i love you guys an' all, but you can all fit in my living room and at least half of you are going to expect/deserve to get guestlisted.

i'm going to be pretty honest here for a sec at the risk of irritating some people i respect: i think that almost all the d'n'b promoters that have been operating in this city since i got here (2004) have taken a lot of their cues from the automatic crew. i think that the automatic crew got used to how hot d'n'b was in van in the 98-01 era and didn't really know how to deal with the decline in popularity of d'n'b and electronic music in general in the last couple of years and wound up riding their own coattails into 06-07 and weren't sure how to adjust. [i think they also grew up a lot and naturally lost a lot of the energy and hype that's needed to be a promoter, especially for a weekly]. what happened was they kept doing things the way they always did them and it stopped working. they seemed to only promote within the scene; preaching to the dwindling choir. the crowds became all too familiar. just from my going on ndub i knew who 2/3 of the people were at shows without ever meeting them. almost all of them were DJs, promoter, or producers and their closest friends. i think automatic forgot how to build an actual audience. how to get regular folks excited about d'n'b. i think the promoters that have followed simply tried that formula but changed the names.
[*this is just based on the information i've gathered over the years and is simply my take on the modern history of the vancouver d'n'b scene.]

as promoters these days you can't think like those days. things have changed. laymen know what d'n'b is and it doesn't have that super-cutting-edge-futuristic-music thing going for it anymore. d'n'b culture, which has unfortunately been soaked in dubplate culture, has a hard time just liking a tune. it either has to be the biggest classic evr (which always starts an argument) or that noisia tune that's coming out in 2010 (and only the hi hats programmed) for the tune to be "good". i understand that it's polarizing music, a music of extremes, but i think we as a culture need to pull away from that a bit and from predicating our value as a culture and a music on the timeliness of the music or how fucking crazy it is. vancouver d'n'b has lost a lot of people because of those things. lets just make/play/and enjoy some tunes.

so most importantly: build an audience again. from scratch. that's what SHAH has blown me away with. the fresh meat willis and john have been able to bring in. they got over 400 people to go see local d'n'b DJs that most of you probably haven't even heard of (yet). when's the last time that happened?

once you've built an audience again, bring in fresh out of town talent. preferably someone i'd like to see.


and bevvy, you're a promoter, what are you doing to help things? throwing breaks shows and catching heat on ndub for doing so? you've been doing neither of which for a while.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Bevvy Swift

exactly my point. are there any new dnb headliners being booked in this town? nope. because the dnb "heads" will only go out to see a headliner theyve already seen 100 times, while the other kids are just there to party and like lots of bass, they dont give a shit whos spinning.

dnb being dead in van doesnt mean its non existent, its just not going anywhere anymore.

all im saying.

out of town headliners aren't moving and shaping our scene. we are.

[dabbler]

on the flipside, it's easy to get 400 people to weekend shows now because they rarely happen. saturation of too many promoters/weeklies at once didn't help the scene

[dabbler]

oh and Automatic was just a chance to go out and drink and hear good music. As we (promoters and club-goers) grew up and got real jobs, we just didn't have the time to spend going out midweek and every week. Tuesday nights became very difficult to get more than 20 peeps for a locals show.

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

i don't buy it. promoters are the ones who tend underestimate the audience and then under promote or poorly promote their shows with acts that van is familiar with because they don't want to loose their shirts. which i find quite understandable. promoters seem to stick with what they know or what they think the city knows. i personally think promoters need to bring in acts that are fresh and actually different (not the newest hardstep/wobble whatever) but people doing fresh shit either as DJs or as producers (turned DJs). like the calibre show or the london elek show or the elements sundays. [someone needs to bring in fanu or breakage or seba or big bud]. but i think what's been lacking in the past is building and retaining a following that's outside of the ndub/fnk top poster roster. i mean, i love you guys an' all, but you can all fit in my living room and at least half of you are going to expect/deserve to get guestlisted.

i'm going to be pretty honest here for a sec at the risk of irritating some people i respect: i think that almost all the d'n'b promoters that have been operating in this city since i got here (2004) have taken a lot of their cues from the automatic crew. i think that the automatic crew got used to how hot d'n'b was in van in the 98-01 era and didn't really know how to deal with the decline in popularity of d'n'b and electronic music in general in the last couple of years and wound up riding their own coattails into 06-07 and weren't sure how to adjust. [i think they also grew up a lot and naturally lost a lot of the energy and hype that's needed to be a promoter, especially for a weekly]. what happened was they kept doing things the way they always did them and it stopped working. they seemed to only promote within the scene; preaching to the dwindling choir. the crowds became all too familiar. just from my going on ndub i knew who 2/3 of the people were at shows without ever meeting them. almost all of them were DJs, promoter, or producers and their closest friends. i think automatic forgot how to build an actual audience. how to get regular folks excited about d'n'b. i think the promoters that have followed simply tried that formula but changed the names.
[*this is just based on the information i've gathered over the years and is simply my take on the modern history of the vancouver d'n'b scene.]

as promoters these days you can't think like those days. things have changed. laymen know what d'n'b is and it doesn't have that super-cutting-edge-futuristic-music thing going for it anymore. d'n'b culture, which has unfortunately been soaked in dubplate culture, has a hard time just liking a tune. it either has to be the biggest classic evr (which always starts an argument) or that noisia tune that's coming out in 2010 (and only the hi hats programmed) for the tune to be "good". i understand that it's polarizing music, a music of extremes, but i think we as a culture need to pull away from that a bit and from predicating our value as a culture and a music on the timeliness of the music or how fucking crazy it is. vancouver d'n'b has lost a lot of people because of those things. lets just make/play/and enjoy some tunes.

so most importantly: build an audience again. from scratch. that's what SHAH has blown me away with. the fresh meat willis and john have been able to bring in. they got over 400 people to go see local d'n'b DJs that most of you probably haven't even heard of (yet). when's the last time that happened?

once you've built an audience again, bring in fresh out of town talent. preferably someone i'd like to see.


and bevvy, you're a promoter, what are you doing to help things? throwing breaks shows and catching heat on ndub for doing so? you've been doing neither of which for a while.

you make lots of valid points, and my kudos go to shah for sure for attracting new audiences to dnb.

but as for what ive been doing, ive been shooting towards a glitch hop scene in vancouver to match the already thriving dubstep scene, because i play and love both. check myspace.com/glitchyscratchy or myspace.com/bevvyswift to hear some more of what ive been doing.

im not against dnb, i just jumped off the sinking ship cos imo its not getting any bigger or better.

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Bevvy Swift

you make lots of valid points, and my kudos go to shah for sure for attracting new audiences to dnb.

but as for what ive been doing, ive been shooting towards a glitch hop scene in vancouver to match the already thriving dubstep scene, because i play and love both. check myspace.com/glitchyscratchy or myspace.com/bevvyswift to hear some more of what ive been doing.

im not against dnb, i just jumped off the sinking ship cos imo its not getting any bigger or better.

Hate to break it to you... but a huge portion of the IDM/Glitch heads in this city almost abandoned it... and are soley Dubstep heads at the moment. Right now there is only a small handful of ppl in this city that is keeping glitch alive... opposed to where it was a few years ago. Back then the number of glitch shows that were held at blim... the butchershop...vivo... were endless.

To try and match the thriving dubstep scene with glitch hop would be a complete failure IMO. The Dubstep community in vancouver continues to grow at an alarming rate. There's alot of dedication and vision to the one's who truely know how to throw down a show... simply because again they have created a community/movement.

I'd say... incorporate ALOT of grime along with your glitch hop sets, it'll certainly draw the attention to some ppl and you can get a crowd. But there is no way in hell it would still match where dubstep is in this city. :P

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Hate to break it to you... but a huge portion of the IDM/Glitch heads in this city almost abandoned it... and are soley Dubstep heads at the moment. Right now there is only a small handful of ppl in this city that is keeping glitch alive... opposed to where it was a few years ago. Back then the number of glitch shows that were held at blim... the butchershop...vivo... were endless.

To try and match the thriving dubstep scene with glitch hop would be a complete failure IMO. The Dubstep community in vancouver continues to grow at an alarming rate. There's alot of dedication and vision to the one's who truely know how to throw down a show... simply because again they have created a community/movement.

I'd say... incorporate ALOT of grime along with your glitch hop sets, it'll certainly draw the attention to some ppl and you can get a crowd. But there is no way in hell it would still match where dubstep is in this city. :P

lol im sorry you feel that way, but its been my experience that i can play whatever the hell i want at dubstep oriented shows, because the people who listen to dubstep are generally more open-minded about electronic music, and will basically get down to anything with a wobbly bassline.
the Vibesquad show last night if anything proved this.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by Bevvy Swift

exactly my point. are there any new dnb headliners being booked in this town? nope. because the dnb "heads" will only go out to see a headliner theyve already seen 100 times, while the other kids are just there to party and like lots of bass, they dont give a shit whos spinning.

dnb being dead in van doesnt mean its non existent, its just not going anywhere anymore.

all im saying.

DOES THIS MEAN JOHN B IS COMING BACK THIS YEAR?! AGAIN?!?!?!?!?

haha..couldn't help it. :p

[Drazkers]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

d'n'b has never been that big in jpn, to my knowledge.

th real question is how big do you want it to be? there's a lot of negatives for such a genre being "big".

I think this is a huge point that should be brought up, who here wants DnB massives where its a faceless/souless hoard of underagers like the big trance events. DnB is small here in japan but we get some great acts(in small rooms) and everyone who goes knows and loves DnB.

Do you really want huge DnB events?

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Drazkers

I think this is a huge point that should be brought up, who here wants DnB massives where its a faceless/souless hoard of underagers like the big trance events. DnB is small here in japan but we get some great acts(in small rooms) and everyone who goes knows and loves DnB.

Do you really want huge DnB events?

Good call. I think that is one of the reasons I hate trance so much (that and, it's painful to listen to). I actually like a good small dnb show. Like a crowd of about 4-500 in a small venue that is just going insane for it. That's a good night.

[ebbomega]

Has vancouver ever had a dnb show with much over 500 people (550 doesn't count.. I mean like a thousand or so people)? I'm serious, I can't seem to think of any I've heard of or been to...

As far back as I can remember DnB has always been a fringe scene of EDM. I haven't seen that much change at all in recent years insofar as size or quality. If anything I've seen it grow in the last couple of months.

[Erin]

^ I've been to some shows in Seattle with well over 2000 people going off at the dnb stage. That is what I was comparing.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Erin

^ I've been to some shows in Seattle with well over 2000 people going off at the dnb stage. That is what I was comparing.

Comparing the current Vancouver scene to a stage at a Seattle massive is like comparing kumquats with watermelons. I did say "Vancouver" in my last post there.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Has vancouver ever had a dnb show with much over 500 people (550 doesn't count.. I mean like a thousand or so people)? I'm serious, I can't seem to think of any I've heard of or been to...

As far back as I can remember DnB has always been a fringe scene of EDM. I haven't seen that much change at all in recent years insofar as size or quality. If anything I've seen it grow in the last couple of months.

LTJ Bukem
Reprazent
Ed Rush and Matrix

all sold out shows @ commodore

[ebbomega]

ADV: dabbs

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by dabbler

oh and Automatic was just a chance to go out and drink and hear good music. As we (promoters and club-goers) grew up and got real jobs, we just didn't have the time to spend going out midweek and every week. Tuesday nights became very difficult to get more than 20 peeps for a locals show.

that's what i figured. we got offered (sort of) to do thursdays there and it was a resounding "no". weeklies are too much work when you have a real job.

[esoter1c]

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by Drazkers

I think this is a huge point that should be brought up, who here wants DnB massives where its a faceless/souless hoard of underagers like the big trance events. DnB is small here in japan but we get some great acts(in small rooms) and everyone who goes knows and loves DnB.

Do you really want huge DnB events?

Sometimes big events are fun. I've been to a few of them in Toronto.
(I know, I know... it's not Vancouver... stfu)

V!RAM at The Docks was great... the place was packed and everyone was going nuts. easily 2000 people there.

The WEMF DnB Stage was also an awesome time. And once again, it was packed all night.

I will agree though, that it's the smaller jams of up to 500 that I have the most fun at. More recently I saw 23DJ at a little joint called Blak and it was fantastic. Fresh face to the Toronto Scene from the UK and a real great crowd.

It's all in how much work promoters are willing to do. If the attitude of everyone is that DnB is dead in Vancouver... well it's going to die. If there's people out there that believe they can possibly spark interest and get things happening again. Then the possibilites are endless.

Find acts that haven't been to Vancouver before... kir mokum pretty much covered it. Calibre, Nu:Tone (I was choked he didn't make that Vancouver date a couple years back), 23DJ... hell Ben Sage has dropped some new tunes... Mutt and even Gremlinz. There's decent Canadian talent that isn't as expensive as the big UK names.

It's down to time and effort and how much people are willing to invest into it.

[tiedye]

It's not dead. It's just not a scene full of trendsters anymore.


Every person I talk to at a dnb night speaks with nothing but passion about it. I can actually go into a loving rant and have a person agree with it instead of giving me an elitist "I'm better than you" response.

I will take this surviving scene over what it once was any day.

[inside]

As some one that is into production, I'm finding that tracks that are utilizing a single oscilator (think electro house bass), that is modulated/processed, sounds way better and more fresh than the wobblers, and reese basslines.

On another note, Drum and Bass is the most boombastic dance music there is, WODB was the best show I've been too since getting back to real life. It was way too much fun thrashing around with all the peeps, and there were so many girls at the show as well. Not having girls at shows is what was killing DnB, there's not many fresh faces to meet.

Most my friends that were heavy into dnb have gone over to dubstep, which I can't stand.

[Phrenetic]

O'Doyle Rules!

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

O'Doyle Rules!

phrenetic ftw

[Erin]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Comparing the current Vancouver scene to a stage at a Seattle massive is like comparing kumquats with watermelons. I did say "Vancouver" in my last post there.

However, when I was thinking about the size of a show I would rather be at I was thinking of a few shows I've been to in Seattle. I was simply stating what I would rather be at.

[-evil-duerr-]

I dunno.. i love dnb, but a whole 2 hour set of a single edm genre can be pretty mind numbing let alone an entire night.

[Jonny Dubbs]

genre based EDM scenes are ghey