Vinyl vs Digital

[Lenny]

Has this post already been made? meh whatever...

So what do you think? Are all the vinyl junkies out there going to be left in the dust? Or does vinyl just have that look feel and sound that will never die?

There are some pretty neat things you can do with some of the digital products coming out and they keep getting better and better. That and having your entire music collection in a cd wallet or HD sure beats hauling around records. Not to mention the price and ease of getting new music etc. There seems to be a lot of emerging possibilities, but will it surpass vinyl in popularity?

thoughts?

[Moon]

with the way things have been going the last while... i can see digital totally taking over. vinyl has too many problems like bad needles, dusty records, skipping, wear.... digital is pretty much completely secure. the cd decks that are out and will be out in the future are pretty incredible.... i gotta say the cdj1000 themselves are incredible cd turntables. most of the top djs in the world have pretty much moved to the cdj1000's and i'm sure they save tons of money not having to press acetate that only lasts after 3 to 5 plays anyways.

[CharlieTuna]

I'm all digital.

[Akeel]

i think being versatile and able to use both mediums is the way to go right now

[Bevvy Swift]

i havent really got any good music on cd's. im all vinyl. soon enough though, it would be wise to expand my horizons and get a cdj and some cd's, cos then i wont have to spend so much money on vinyl.

i little birdy told me that vinyl production will be discontinued in coming years because of harmful chemicals released during pressing. did anyone else come across this birdy, or did i imagine it?

[CharlieTuna]

^^No I've heard that too Bevan, who knows how true it is.

[Pennywise]

vinyl...

but i like seeing some cds being used also

[Lenny]

I still love the feel of vinyl and the problems associated with it such as skipping and the vinyl wearing out add a certain credibility to a dj who can play a set and not have you notice. Scrathing on a cd deck strips away a tiny bit of the skill factor that makes scrating impressive, but at the same time adds complexity in what you can do with sampling and effects.

and it is visually more apealing for someone at a show to see a dj popping cd's into a player over watching a dj manipulate vinyl? Either way, gotta move with the times I guess.

Which adds another question? Is it cheaper? The tech1200 has been around for quite some time now. I kind of doubt the cdj1000 for example, will be the standard in 5 years. It may be the cdj1001, and at what they cost right now, your still paying up the ass to play music.

[shift]

Originally Posted by CharlieTuna

I'm all digital.

^^^Where do you get your material?

I'm a bit of both, I play almost all vinyl, with the exception of my own tracks and the odd tune a friend has produced. If I could tho I'd do it all vinyl, the feel is way better in my opinion, plus I grew up on it so to speak so I guess it's what I'm used to...

[CharlieTuna]

^^^ Mostly from Traxsource.com, and a bit from Beatport.com.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Cheez

vinyl production will be discontinued in coming years because of harmful chemicals released during pressing.

yeah that's totally true, it'll happen right around the same time that they stop producing cars and the thousands of other consumer products that create harmful emissions. :P

i've heard that vinyl production will become prohibitively expensive due to rising oil prices, which sounds a bit more likely to me.... but even still, there's no reason to think that an alternate material couldn't be produced.

Something like that might be the cause of vinyl's eventual demise... but it won't die out due to digital formats. There are millions of vinyl enthusiasts worldwide who have no interest in 'going digital'. I am one. I own a CDJ and i'll use it to play new tunes (esp. my own) that aren't on wax, but i'll always choose vinyl over a digital format. I think playing MP3s out is wack, i would never book a DJ who does this. Your willfully compromising the sound quality of your performance just to save a few dollars and avoid carrying a heavy bag. FUCK THAT. If you're not willing to put in the dollars & the effort, stay the fuck home. I have no doubt that digital DJing will continue to rise in popularity amongst DJs, but i don't think that audiences will be so quick to accept. Someone who has enough passion for the art that they're willing to spend what it takes to get the tunes on wax, give up a sizeable portion of their living space to store it, and carry that heavy bag to each gig - i guarantee you that person puts 1000x more heart & soul into a set than some putz who strolls in with a CD wallet. Listeners, dancers... they will pick up on that, whether conciously or subconciously.

Vinyl has survived the advent of several supposedly superior formats, and i don't see the current wave of digital gimmickry to be any different. CD mixers and digital downloads are nothing new, so i can't see a few relatively minor advances in the technology sounding the death knell for vinyl. All it's doing imo (to use a horribly sexist cliche) is separating the men from the boys.

[Lenny]

...was waiting for the purist post. Heh, so by that regard the djs and producers out there who put blood sweat and tears into making a career out of producing music, and have switched to digital to bring the freshest music to dancefloors as well as a larger selection of the classics are boys? have put in 1000x less effort? don't have as much heart or soul?
A CDJ can get pretty damn expensive! is it not comparible to spending loads of dough on records?

Anyway, the point was that yes cd players are nothing new but what you can do with them is, to the point where it's turning heads away from vinyl, which imho is something that shouldn't be brushed off as being gimmickry.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by (LJF)

Heh, so by that regard the djs and producers out there who put blood sweat and tears into making a career out of producing music, and have switched to digital to bring the freshest music to dancefloors as well as a larger selection of the classics are boys? have put in 1000x less effort? don't have as much heart or soul?

no, i think it's fairly obvious i'm not talking about producers. As i mentioned, i play my own tunes & other people's unreleased tunes off CD, if it's the only option available then go for it. no problems there. I know a few people who play sets of exclusively unreleased material, but they are still putting in the time & effort to get those tunes & to produce their own.

Someone who's just DJing released material and buying it as digital dl's and playing off CDs... well, power to ya, but to me it shows a complete lack of the drive & dedication that separates someone truly special from the masses of imitators.

imho, the only reason digital formats are turning heads away from vinyl is because it makes the whole thing easier. At the expense of that intangible quality that has kept vinyl alive thus far.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by (LJF)

A CDJ can get pretty damn expensive! is it not comparible to spending loads of dough on records?

not in the slightest, imo. by electing to blow your wad on a CD deck and go the download route, you're cutting yourself off to some extent form the music buying community. A lot more goes on in a record shop than just people buying records. I've not only made valuable industry connections through crate-digging, but life long friends as well.

Don't get me wrong, i say anyone who wants to go that route, by all means do it. But i don't believe for a second that it means that vinyl is on the ways out.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Wood

not in the slightest, imo. by electing to blow your wad on a CD deck and go the download route, you're cutting yourself off to some extent form the music buying community. A lot more goes on in a record shop than just people buying records. I've not only made valuable industry connections through crate-digging, but life long friends as well.

Don't get me wrong, i say anyone who wants to go that route, by all means do it. But i don't believe for a second that it means that vinyl is on the ways out.

Definitley agree there, but at what point does a vinyl shop have to re-evaluate the business plan? Some dj's play singles on cd as opposed to vinyl. Do most records stores sell singles in a digital format? no. Who's cutting who off?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Wood

Someone who's just DJing released material and buying it as digital dl's and playing off CDs... well, power to ya, but to me it shows a complete lack of the drive & dedication that separates someone truly special from the masses of imitators.

From where I'm sitting, vinyl dj's still represent the masses. It's pretty safe to say there are a lot of dj's out there spinning vinyl and doing it the same way it's been done for years. Very few are pushing the envelope and as a medium it has its limits.

Do you produce music using a computer?

[Wood]

Originally Posted by (LJF)

Definitley agree there, but at what point does a vinyl shop have to re-evaluate the business plan? Some dj's play singles on cd as opposed to vinyl. Do most records stores sell singles in a digital format? no. Who's cutting who off?

i'd gladly carry CD singles in my shop if the music we carry was available in that format... unfortunately the vast majority of it isn't, as the industry seems to be leaning towards the mp3 as a digital format rather than the CD single. Which effectively cuts the physical record shop out of the loop. But if a system is developed for selling mp3s through a physical retail outlet, i won't resist. As a retailer i'd have no problem selling them, i'd have no choice really. But who would buy them in a shop when you can just do it at home, straight on to your own HD? It's a format that is designed to circumvent the physical shop, so i don't see the labels who support it making an effort to make them salable through retail shops.

That's one of the reasons i can't really get my head around the idea of selling digital dl's as a replacement for 12" singles. It seems like such a short-sighted plan to me. For instance, what's to stop 20 guys from forming their own 'record pool' where instead of shopping individually, they just pool their money and buy all the top tunes to share amongst themselves? That could easily happen on an even waaay larger scale... how could this be a positive thing for artists or labels?

and yes, i do produce music on a computer... we record guitar, vocals, etc on that computer but that's where the mixdown takes place. not really sure what that has to do with the subject at hand...

[Lenny]

Producing on a computer is easier than recording on tape is it not? Some might suggest some music that was done on tape sounds a lot better than music done on a computer and other modern equipment. Others might say it's the quality of the music.

How to stop pools, it's a toughy and wouldn't be easy. I agree it would be a negative for artists, but then again record stores having to close their doors can't be great either. And what's stopping people from doing the same thing now?

As far as vinyl goes, what's stopping people from just ordering their tunes online and having it delivered to your door the next day? The selection online is often much better than what someone might find if they were to hit every record store in town.

Anyway now I'm just beating this topic to death now. I was just curious what people thought about the topic and try to get a better idea of where things are heading.

I'm actually curious to know what the average person on the dancefloor thinks. I personally don't care on what medium good music is delivered.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by (LJF)

Producing on a computer is easier than recording on tape is it not? Some might suggest some music that was done on tape sounds a lot better than music done on a computer and other modern equipment. Others might say it's the quality of the music.

that's good point, and as someone who started out recording music on tape, i can definitely vouch for computers being much less problematic. 'Easier' might not be the right word though, i've always found the creative process involved in creating a piece of recorded music to be the most intensive part. Not having the headaches of analogue tape recording just frees up more energy to be put into that creative process. I don't know if the same can be said about DJing, as the act of mixing CDs with today's technology is no more or less difficult or problematic than playing vinyl (CD's skip too, yo!). And the amount of creativity involved in standard DJing can't really be compared to what it takes to write an original piece of music, imo.

anyways, that's taking it a little off topic... i think we can all agree that there are big changes afoot in the industry, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as people are willing to adapt. But as a vinyl enthusiast it pains me to see people writing it off as a dead format. I think both have their place and can co-exist, it doesn't always have to be portrayed as if only one format can survive.

[(val)Liam]

I like the idea of "laptop symphonies" where you can be mixing 4 tracks in ableton while improvising your own riffs and beats at the same time...

[shift]

^Yeah, the concept is cool, but honestly it's not very exciting watching someone click a mouse in front of a laptop. I find live shows integrating hardware synths/drum machines/sequencers are alot more ingaging. There's something to be said for seeing the performer visually manipulating the music. I think that is part of the appeal with djs as well.

On another note, if I was in the market for digital music I would way rather purchase a cd single in .wav format from a record store than an mp3 from a website. In my opinion you are already sacrificing quality when you move from an analogue medium to digital (at 16 bit anyways...), why degrade that quality any further than necessary?

[Rytalin]

Man, has vinyl ever survived a fuck of a long time.

Who'd think something as simple as bass feedback would extend a medium's life past its supposed successors?


All because people love loops.

I don't blame them. Loops are trippy. and when you are listening to loops off a medium that creates another loop by playing, you square your trippiness.

Now this is cool, but it also gives producers alot of room to be lazy with production. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Point and case: Florida breaks, Uk hardhouse/Nu NRG, that angry jungle craze a couple years ago, and so on.

Digital presents a challenge to producers a challenge in this way. partiers are used to shakin their asses to fat warm slightly sloppy low end that actively draws you into it. Digital presents you with the opposite. Cold, precise high resolution audio. Its a totally different medium and requires different production methods. The frequency and dynamic range of a CD provides alot more room to pull people's minds into the music, as opposed to their bodies, in vinyl's case. This is why psytrance is almost exclusively on CD now.

I think vinyl will eventually die out, but its most definetly going to take its time, and will probably require a digital format of amazing resolution to completely topple it. Or a floor mic plugged into the sub amp :)

[Akeel]

i like going to the record store and going through the stock, its much more rewarding to me then clicking on 10 sec samples.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Cheez

i havent really got any good music on cd's. im all vinyl. soon enough though, it would be wise to expand my horizons and get a cdj and some cd's, cos then i wont have to spend so much money on vinyl.

i little birdy told me that vinyl production will be discontinued in coming years because of harmful chemicals released during pressing. did anyone else come across this birdy, or did i imagine it?

No, it's true.

It'll happen right after Duke Nukem Forever and Evil Dead 4 come out.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by shift

^Yeah, the concept is cool, but honestly it's not very exciting watching someone click a mouse in front of a laptop.

Go see Kraftwerk live and then eat those words.