tiring your own shit

[scue]

you know when you've got a beat down with awesome melodies and shit. the first time you hear it, it's fuckin gold, but then your building it out and mastering it, and it doesn't seem to sound as awesome after all those times playing it. how do you keep it from tiring, or reassure yourself that it's still of the same quality it was from the start??

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by rdsml

you know when you've got a beat down with awesome melodies and shit. the first time you hear it, it's fuckin gold, but then your building it out and mastering it, and it doesn't seem to sound as awesome after all those times playing it. how do you keep it from tiring, or reassure yourself that it's still of the same quality it was from the start??

if it was of any quality to begin with you shouldnt get tired of it so easily. if you keep getting tired of your tracks before theyre even completed, thats a pretty clear sign that the track is garbage and not worth completing. Or at least a sign telling you that you dont even have the motivation to FINISH a song let alone the ability to create good songs that other people would consider listening to.

Your tiring of yer own shit cuz its shit. Every punk who downloads a warez release of Reason or Fruity Loops suddenly thinks theyre the next "Oakey" in the making. If your not just another of these kids id be really surprized.
Heres a tip, leave music making to the musicians.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

^^^bAd advice^^^
Listen, everyone gets tired of listening to their own tracks. What you got to do is stop listening to it for a while, start writing a new track, come back and see if you still like it later on. Sure, using Reason 2 with vst`s alone is a sure fire way to make a crap tune. A good way to correct this problem is to buy an analog instrument; such as a sh101, an start creating analog grooves.
I have made a few mistakes with my music. I`ve worked backwards and forwards for months in a stinking hot room, in my underwear, little sony headphones buzzing, etc.. In the end I am satisfied, its a labour of love.
My advice, don`t give up, get smart, stop buying comics and buy an analog instrument.

[-evil-duerr-]

^ i deserve that. You answered the guys question with some good advice . I didnt really have much too say but negative accusatory bullshit , which doesnt really help anything.
Writing music can be frustrating at times. I get sick of my songs after listeing to the same sections n shit over and over for hours on end too. But like P.A.R.T.Y. said when that happens its just as easy to switch to a different project or start a brand new one alltogether. or work on different part of the sequence. just to keep things fresh and ideas rolling without the "job site" getting stale.

[scue]

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

^^^bAd advice^^^
Listen, everyone gets tired of listening to their own tracks. What you got to do is stop listening to it for a while, start writing a new track, come back and see if you still like it later on. Sure, using Reason 2 with vst`s alone is a sure fire way to make a crap tune. A good way to correct this problem is to buy an analog instrument; such as a sh101, an start creating analog grooves.
I have made a few mistakes with my music. I`ve worked backwards and forwards for months in a stinking hot room, in my underwear, little sony headphones buzzing, etc.. In the end I am satisfied, its a labour of love.
My advice, don`t give up, get smart, stop buying comics and buy an analog instrument.

Thanks for that, I'll try it out. I've got an old casio midi keyboard, but it's no synth, it would be useful aswell as fun if I were to buy one though.

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

I have made a few mistakes with my music. I`ve worked backwards and forwards for months in a stinking hot room, in my underwear, little sony headphones buzzing, etc.. In the end I am satisfied, its a labour of love.
My advice, don`t give up, get smart, stop buying comics and buy an analog instrument.

That's funny you say that because you described my environment perfectly, except I'm using my t.v. speakers instead of headphones (actually I just fixed my amp so I got faux-monitors and other mids around me now)

and -evil-duerr-, fair enough that you said those things, I totally know where you're coming from. I'm not as much tired of my track as much as I don't know what mood it conveys to the listener anymore. Just like when you listen to a song over and over again, however the first time you hear it, certain things stand out enough to raise the hair on the back of your neck.

I'm not just another punk with a pirated reason copy though. I have been a drummer for years, and been into music production ever since I was having fun with sf ACID back when I was 12. (well that's not something to be proud of) so naturally you learn a bit about music through the time.

good suggestions both of you though. thanks.

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

Sure, using Reason 2 with vst`s alone is a sure fire way to make a crap tune. A good way to correct this problem is to buy an analog instrument; such as a sh101, an start creating analog grooves.

buying analog gear isn't going to make you a better musician... knowledge, practice, and time will... I've heard AWFUL shit with tb303's and I've heard excellent music with fruity loops...

[scue]

Originally Posted by Liam

buying analog gear isn't going to make you a better musician... knowledge, practice, and time will... I've heard AWFUL shit with tb303's and I've heard excellent music with fruity loops...

that's very true, but it is a source of inspiration to get your ideas down faster before you forget them (as you may with just clicking a mouse the whole time) I've noticed it's just like using a tablet for graphics.

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by rdsml

that's very true, but it is a source of inspiration to get your ideas down faster before you forget them (as you may with just clicking a mouse the whole time) I've noticed it's just like using a tablet for graphics.

I can't even imagine making music without a keyboard anymore... :p

[mux]

I wouldn't even say it's the keyboard that does it... for me, it's more about the synthesis aspects, using a dedicated machine that I'm familiar with to produce the sound that I want within a few moves of sliders and knobs. I have my grade 3 Royal Conservatory for piano, but I find that apart from the theory, I rarely use any of those skills. I'm more a synthesist than a keyboard player.

W/R/T getting tired of your stuff - there's really two sides to it. It used to be if you were making techno (or pretty much any electronic music), you used your studio as an instrument, running patch cords everywhere, chaining all your crap together to make noises that worked together as a song. Unfortunately, that meant that if you didn't completely finish a track before moving on to the next bit, you were HIGHLY unlikely to ever be able to go back to that state and finish the track. Now with stuff like Reason, you can just save your whole studio setup in software and go back to it whenever you like.

A couple of guys I know with tonnes of records out say that the only way to keep that inspiration is to go hard at the song until it's done... you're bound to get sick of it, but that just makes it sweeter when you finish it, wash your hands, and stick it somewhere so you can come back and master it in a week or two.

Personally, I hate recording songs, because that means I have to say a track is finished... I'm a live-pa guy, I want to be able to constantly remix my stuff. What one of my songs sounds like at the start of the summer is rarely what it sounds like at the end of the summer... arrangement and such are figured out slowly, via trial and error and many, many stoned rehearsals and drunken jams with friends. I find this way takes *WAY* longer, but in the end, I'm much happier with those songs than with the ones where I "just sat in the studio until it was done". Also, although I'm starting to slowly warm up to it, I don't find the "studio engineering" aspect of music production anywhere near as fun as the "playing with gear and writing music" parts.

F'rinstance, this weekend, I was working on a track that I've played out a few times, that seems to get the dancefloor moving, but that I'm just getting bored of. A couple of hours of upgrading the bassline, and it's pretty much a new track for me, just couldn't stop jamming with it and grinning last night.

I guess what I'm saying is - maybe consider not focusing so much on producing music, but rather just on creating music. Jam with it, play with it, and if it's not fun, then don't do it. Pretty much anything you do with music is helping you to grow musically, so don't worry so much if something isn't directly helping you complete tracks... if that's your only focus, then you're likely to burn out sooner. When you get tired of working on a track, spend some time playing guitar or go for a walk or something.

[Code]

Something that I found helps is to take your stuff out of your house. Burn a copy for your car, or another stereo system, even if the track isn't finished. I do that anyway to check mix's. You're hearing it the same way over and over, pump it through a PA and it should energize you again. We've all been there, I have a lifetime membership to go back....

[scue]

^^ yeah for sure, it's cool to put it on in a public place, to hear peoples reactions. put it on a cd at a party or somethin yknow.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

As Mux mentioned, its not just having the gear, its the inspiration behind the gear that makes a song worthwhile. Sure, some tweakers with tb303`s botch up their songs, gear isn`t everything. However, considering that the virtual Novation BassStation and virtual Moogs sound crap when put against the real thing, it would stands to reason to buy real gear. Also, when you have outboard gear, your able to put your keyboards and drum machines through preamps and compressors (hopefully tube) to enrich the sounds provided for your captive audience.
Fruity loops is an interetsing program, but gimme a break! As a discerning listener, I will notice your repeating sampled bassline, your sampled kick, your digital percussion, and the rest of your digital ontime samples running through a faulty algorythm. I would much prefer that you were using a real sampler and midi. For some of you who don`t realize it, the ears are extremely sensitive and detect bullshit sound by instinct. So many people think that since they got a crack of Reason 3, Fruityloops, Korg Legacy and Tr-Racks, they are the next Junior Jack. It takes sacrafice, soul, and grit to make a real tune that hits the mark everytime. Finally, the real testament to making music is enjoying yourself, you can make music with just about anything. Mux said he like to play live, some people may prefer to be in a studio tweaking, others may enjoy mixing, etc...There is no right or wrong, only the best will be better than the rest and those in the know will know.

[mux]

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

As Mux mentioned, its not just having the gear, its the inspiration behind the gear that makes a song worthwhile.

Posted by my good friend Tom on a local electronic musicians mailing list (http://www.blackholeclub.com) yesterday:

He who approaches the temple of the muses without
inspiration in the belief that craftsmanship alone
suffices will remain a bungler and his presumptious
poetry will be obscured by the songs of the maniacs.
-- Plato

I'm gonna print that off and hang it on the wall of my studio. :)

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

As Mux mentioned, its not just having the gear, its the inspiration behind the gear that makes a song worthwhile. Sure, some tweakers with tb303`s botch up their songs, gear isn`t everything. However, considering that the virtual Novation BassStation and virtual Moogs sound crap when put against the real thing, it would stands to reason to buy real gear. Also, when you have outboard gear, your able to put your keyboards and drum machines through preamps and compressors (hopefully tube) to enrich the sounds provided for your captive audience.
Fruity loops is an interetsing program, but gimme a break! As a discerning listener, I will notice your repeating sampled bassline, your sampled kick, your digital percussion, and the rest of your digital ontime samples running through a faulty algorythm. I would much prefer that you were using a real sampler and midi. For some of you who don`t realize it, the ears are extremely sensitive and detect bullshit sound by instinct. So many people think that since they got a crack of Reason 3, Fruityloops, Korg Legacy and Tr-Racks, they are the next Junior Jack. It takes sacrafice, soul, and grit to make a real tune that hits the mark everytime. Finally, the real testament to making music is enjoying yourself, you can make music with just about anything. Mux said he like to play live, some people may prefer to be in a studio tweaking, others may enjoy mixing, etc...There is no right or wrong, only the best will be better than the rest and those in the know will know.

I don't think the debate is about digital vs. analog anymore... its about being disrespected and being told our music is crap without using analog gear... yeah... I use plug-ins, and many people on here do (as well as many of my greatest musical inspirations)... but to say we don't put the same heart and soul into our music because we're not using analog gear is I think pisses people off... sure, anyone can crack reason, but how is that any different than some kid blowing $2000 on turntables after going to his third rave to eventually sell them off after two weeks because he's bored with them? do you not think that someone with no musical knowledge can take a tb303 and loop a sound over and over and over and over again until it sounds like a drill pressing on your brain? its the people that love the music and love to create that are going to last, regardless of the money invested... I'm not saying I'm never going to get analog gear or that digital is better... I'm just asking for a little more respect... because I'm not some kid that started listening to electronica a week ago and starting making tracks yesterday... I put a lot of thought and effort into my tracks (and VERY picky on the sounds I use in them)... and I do feel disrespected when someone tries to tell me my music is effortless shit because I don't use analog gear...

[P.A.R.T.Y]

^^^I sincerely appologize, I am not disrespecting you or other musicians who are mainly useing plug-ins. A lot of the biggest artists are using great plugins and vst`s. My message is pretty simple; I am pushing people to use analog gear because I see it becoming obsolete and it saddens me. As for the kid with the tech`s; sure, he can sell them to me and I`ll gladly spin, haha..
Seriously, I use a lot of plugins, I use digital reverbs and delays a lot, its so clean. Even the sequencer (Cubase SX) is digital, so is its mixer. I like Orange vocoder and the Virtual K-station had a nice arpeggio feature. The prophet 52 has nice strings and the pentagon has a great rhodes sound. On the other hand, I feel I would be robbing my sound if I didn`t apply a think analog Bass to the track, or a bleepy electro sound. Its not overly expensive to get an analog synth, they aren`t thousands of dollars or anything. I you feel like blowing a bundle, go ahead and buy a virus, but I suggest sticking to 80`s Roland synths with a plethora of knobs. Good luck whatever you choose.

[(val)Liam]

what do you use for a good bass sound?

[mapleleaf4ever]

heh heh I was just talking with Rob Andrewz today about this... Make the Track as quick and precisely as possible before you bore of it. :p

[mux]

Originally Posted by Liam

what do you use for a good bass sound?

Waldorf Pulse. I also have a Juno-60 and an SH-101, both reknowned bass synths, but the Pulse just stomps all over them. Seriously.

[Code]

Originally Posted by Liam

what do you use for a good bass sound?

A real bass. I stumble along, but try to use real instruments whenever possible; unless I can't get the right sound, or quality from my own playing.

But that's probably because I can't afford anymore synths, lol....

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by Code

A real bass.

lol... I've been so tempted to say that during other "analog/digital" discussions... I already have access to one though... I was thinking about a bass synth for making psytrance...

[Code]

Ya, I just didn't have time to write a longer explanation. Truth be told, I find the bass to be the hardest part to program/play. Making any bass line is easy, but to make a good bass line is tough.

I would like to here more about what people use, I checked out the Waldorf Pulse after reading Mux's post. I use a Motif ES, or my Bass through a simple focusrite PRE. I have a hard time playing tight all the way through, so I'll usually sample myself and loop it when I can. I would love to try a Access Virus.

Cody