Ritalin

[m0e]

Between Jib and Ritalin, what the hell is the difference?
Besides the dose and the packaging, they are both methamphetamines that affect roughly the same neurotransmitters and have a high likelihood of abuse...

How is it that we are prescribing this to our kids?

[Gusto]

you don't have kids

[m0e]

if that was a thinly veiled proposal...

you should at least take me out for dinner and a movie first : P

[Gusto]

deal. if the kids are annoying we're giving them ritalin, though. foot. down.

[m0e]

hehe,
no deal...

I can't have kids with you Gusto. I'm allergic to babies.
I'm gonna adopt like Angelina Jolie, but instead of a Cambodian kid, I'll find a blonde hair, blue-eyed boy and raise him to marry a Kennedy.


But f'real,
the way to a girl's *heart* is DVD box sets and martinis : P

[Gusto]

hahaha, i was gonna comment on the use of the word heart, but i think your *'s indicate we were already thinking the same thing.

[diva]

Originally Posted by m0e

Between Jib and Ritalin, what the hell is the difference?
Besides the dose and the packaging, they are both methamphetamines that affect roughly the same neurotransmitters and have a high likelihood of abuse...

How is it that we are prescribing this to our kids?

ritalin isn't a methamphetamine

[Gusto]

Ritalin aka Methylphenidate is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant. It has effects similar to, but more potent than, caffeine and less potent than amphetamines.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/ritalin.html

oh noes

[diva]

^ that website also discusses how it's people who aren't prescribed the drug in the first place who abuse it

people abuse it for its stimulant properties, but the drug has a paradoxical effect and calms people with adhd

[rawb]

hulk up gusto
give us some kids to test on

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by m0e

Between Jib and Ritalin, what the hell is the difference?
Besides the dose and the packaging, they are both methamphetamines that affect roughly the same neurotransmitters and have a high likelihood of abuse...

How is it that we are prescribing this to our kids?

Besides the dose and the packaging!? What else is there? That's like saying we shouldn't get tylenol with codeine because it's similar to heroin. Many highly addictive drugs have legitimate benefits.

The problem is not that certain things have a high likelihood of abuse. The problem is that people who are highly likely to abuse will always be able find something to abuse.

[m0e]

Pardon the misnomer...

My point is about dexedrine, which *is* an amphetamine.

Perhaps the real problem is not the effectiveness of the drug to treat legitimate illness, but rather the ease in which it is both prescribed and obtained.
ADD has turned into a pop culture phenomena,with ppl self-diagnosing at any indication of the disease.

[cubed]

It's not that easy to get a doctor to prescribe you dexedrine.
And when they do, PhamaNET keeps very strict tabs on anyone taking this particular medication.

So if you were prescribed 2 weeks worth of dex, but went to another doc for another prescription before your 2 weeks were up, they would flag you.

It's a schedule II drug. GPs who are known for over prescribing that stuff get really bad reputations among their colleagues.

The general population loves their "downers" way more than their "uppers". Benzodiazapines like ativan and valium are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more popular than stimulants like dex or ritalin.

edit: diva from cubed's account

[decypher]

^^ Man this dr. prescribed my friend Ativan(he neglected to tell the dr he was an alcoholic) and then when the ativan stopped working the dr. gave him clorezapam. crazy dr's! i'm not complaining though hah.

I also knew this one 4 yr kid who was getting prescribed 100pill bottles of dex :( :( Just seems wrong.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

Besides the dose and the packaging!? What else is there? That's like saying we shouldn't get tylenol with codeine because it's similar to heroin. Many highly addictive drugs have legitimate benefits.

ritalin is actually more comparable to cocaine (not amphetamine), since they both block the reuptake of dopamine at the same receptors in the brain.

and yes, there is a higher likelihood of abuse and addiction for cocaine since it's about 4-5 times faster in half-life and in the comedown, therefore producing a stronger high and a worse comedown.

--Joanne :P

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by m0e

Between Jib and Ritalin, what the hell is the difference?
Besides the dose and the packaging, they are both methamphetamines that affect roughly the same neurotransmitters and have a high likelihood of abuse...

How is it that we are prescribing this to our kids?

Kids are getting prescribed all sorts of shit. Even prozaac is is being fed to children. Anti Depressant medications like Prozaac and Paxil cause more damage than good. and i speak from experience. My point is. the government is fucked up when it comes to drug regulation. its all about the money moneys to them. We have a drug like alcohol, which is north america's head fuck of choice and a perfectly legal one at that. but a hell of alot more dangerous than... hmm smokin a doobie .... and here the government points the finger at these "druggies" while at the same time masses of people die from cigarettes and alcohol which are pushed harder than any street drugs. And weve got teenagers commiting suicide, or murdering people they know because theyre having a psychotic episode induced by one of the many widely prescribed Anti-Depressant medications on the market. Dont question the governments methods, just assume theyre doing it for a nice suit, a necklace for the wife, and a trip to bermuda for the mistress.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

Kids are getting prescribed all sorts of shit. Even prozaac is is being fed to children. Anti Depressant medications like Prozaac and Paxil cause more damage than good. and i speak from experience. My point is. the government is fucked up when it comes to drug regulation. its all about the money moneys to them. We have a drug like alcohol, which is north america's head fuck of choice and a perfectly legal one at that. but a hell of alot more dangerous than... hmm smokin a doobie .... and here the government points the finger at these "druggies" while at the same time masses of people die from cigarettes and alcohol which are pushed harder than any street drugs. And weve got teenagers commiting suicide, or murdering people they know because theyre having a psychotic episode induced by one of the many widely prescribed Anti-Depressant medications on the market. Dont question the governments methods, just assume theyre doing it for a nice suit, a necklace for the wife, and a trip to bermuda for the mistress.

about committing suicide and anti-depressants..

one of the reasons why this can occur is because once a person is less depressed (with the help of the anti-depressants), it's then that they finally have the energy to go through with their suicidal thoughts. many extremely depressed people don't have the energy to through with suicide.

another reason may be that around the time when a depressed person is starting to feel better, they will decide to commit suicide because they don't want to go back to their major depressive state.

--Joanne :P

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

one of the reasons why this can occur is because once a person is less depressed (with the help of the anti-depressants), it's then that they finally have the energy to go through with their suicidal thoughts. many extremely depressed people don't have the energy to through with suicide.

another reason may be that around the time when a depressed person is starting to feel better, they will decide to commit suicide because they don't want to go back to their major depressive state.

--Joanne :P

What basis do you have to support these claims?

I can think of a dozen more plausible reasons why clinically depressed people commit suicide while medicated. Eg) For most people, drugs are their last hope at antidepressing; for some people, antidepressants do fuck-all.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

What basis do you have to support these claims?

I can think of a dozen more plausible reasons why clinically depressed people commit suicide while medicated. Eg) For most people, drugs are their last hope at antidepressing; for some people, antidepressants do fuck-all.

mine are from the basis that it's a myth that improved emotional state equals a lessened risk of suicide. it's also something we've actually discussed in abnormal psychology and nursing classes.

I've a list of suicide myths here from my textbook (Davidson, G.C & Neale, J.M. (2001) Abnormal Psychology. 8th ed. New York: John Wiley & Sons, Inc.), coming from 7 sources. ask me if you want em. (and pardon the APA!)

I didn't say those were the ONLY reasons why clinically depressed people will commit suicide while on antidepressants. I was simply offering an alternative different from "it's the antidepressants causing it!"

so tell me, what basis do you have to support your claim?

--Joanne :P

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

so tell me, what basis do you have to support your claim?

--Joanne :P

I've had extensive personal experience with a member of my family and one of my closest friends. Suffice it to say I have done my share of research.

Originally Posted by bananasinpjs

mine are from the basis that it's a myth that improved emotional state equals a lessened risk of suicide.

What does this mean? Are you saying that, statistically, most people who commit suicide are not suffering from one depressive disorder or another?

"Risk of suicide." Risk implies randomness, like the chances of dying in a car accident. Suicidal behaviour is learned (because of biological factors) from one's environment; it is not a "risk" in that sense because it doesn't just happen. It can be anticipated and it can be controlled.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

I've had extensive personal experience with a member of my family and one of my closest friends. Suffice it to say I have done my share of research.


What does this mean? Are you saying that, statistically, most people who commit suicide are not suffering from one depressive disorder or another?

it means that a lot of cases, a formerly depressed person will commit suicide after they start to feel better and their energy level increases.

also, there are some research that find that a lot of people who commit suicide appeared calm and at peace with themselves, not depressed.. although who really knows if they were were depressed or not?

Originally Posted by sinnerman

"Risk of suicide." Risk implies randomness, like the chances of dying in a car accident. Suicidal behaviour is learned (because of biological factors) from one's environment; it is not a "risk" in that sense because it doesn't just happen. It can be anticipated and it can be controlled.

read my statement again. mine are from the basis that it's a myth that improved emotional state equals a lessened risk of suicide. you're trying to make an argument over semantics about at a statement about a myth.

but if you wanna play this game, statistically speaking, if there are more people who commit suicide after their spirits begin to rise and after their energy levels improve, some researchers may gather from that, that a rise in spirits and energy level is a mediating variable to INCREASE the likelihood (i.e risk) of something occurring than without. I never said that it's something that "just happens". many mediating variables increase or decrease the chances or us behaving a certain way all the time.

and also, I never said that it is something that CAN'T be anticipated or controlled.

--Joanne :P

[sinnerman]

^^^
Ahh . . . if you're saying that it's the emotional swing from depressed/lethargic to energetic/confused/"antidepressed" that can overwhelm a person and--under the most severe circumstances--drive them to suicide, then I heartily agree.

I'm not meaning to get into semantics, but I do think a distiction needs to be made. It's irresponsible to treat suicide by judging risks; it is part of a pattern of behaviour that can be prevented with appropriate attention. Different people don't have different chances of committing suicide; it can always be correlated with a person's behaviour and experience, and how those traits have changed over time.