No 2010 Games In BC?

[whatitdo]

The modern Olympics ie. post '84 Los Angelas has resulted in sustained economic improvments for the region that hosts them, as long as it was reasonably organized. And this means jobs and useful infrastructure long term, not long term money for the rich. It is a short term oppurtunity for them, of course, just as any large project can be. Do protestors complain about the cost over runs on the many schools and hospitals being built?

Considering the booming construction industry at the moment, its difficult to project costs for any project. I know several construction project managers and they are living in hell trying to complete projects ASAP so they dont lose money on projects because of labour over runs if the project is delayed.

This is just reality, and not improper planning by the Vancouver Olympic orgranizers.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by sidekick

you're an idiot.

EVERY olympics council has miscalculated costs. not just for the olympics, but for almost all construction projects. costs change, materials costs change, labour costs change.

^ He is spot on. The costs are always predicted and almost always the city hosting the olympics that year go way over budget.

Its near impossible to predict exactly how much its gonna cost. Its just the way it is.

You want me to find the budget and how much the olympics in turin actually ended up costing. I already know it was way more expensive than projected.

I remember reading about it like 4 months ago

[Antenna_Boy]

^all government projects that are contracted out are under priced just so that they can get the go-ahead on the projects...and the trend is, when the project is called for being under-budget, this issue is risen a few months after the project began and the begging for more financing from the contractors begins...basically, it is also a "you scratch my back, I scratch your back - with kickback incentives". So who is making the money here? The economy, contractors, or the politicians (under-the-table)?

[Ree Fresh]

Shawn I couldnt agree more with a chuckle that I too would like to actualy get something out of my tax dollars lol.

I understand that it's mostly rich buisness's who will benifet, but also its putting our city into action and making it better for all of us (roads, transit, and hopefully thell help out all the homeless because its out of control and 'embarasing')

I personaly am not going to worrie so much about traffic as I heard one plan may be to change spring break in the schools to the two weeks of the Oylimpics. Plus im sure lots of ppl will take time off of work. I think a large amount of ppl living in the city will give up their weekly rutines and join in the festivities which will reduce the amount of hetic traffic allot.

From what I heard from Sydney locals... they said it was an amazing two weeks for the whole city. Every night you had to go out. We have two weeks under the spot light of the world and the world joining us in our own town. It's like our city investing in a two week party :p

Seriousely ppl... have some fun. I hope it brings this city a little closer.


PS: I believe the main reason for the cost going up is because our dolalr is on the rise. The mistake was NOT making all the contract deals stuck on the dollar that it was when they were first planning... now that our dollar is higher its made costs more.

[stringbeans]

ANTI-OLYMPIC GROUP OPPOSES OLYMPICS, BIG FUCKING SURPRISE BYE

[Séguin]

I can't wait till the olympics. And when that's over, I'm fuckign gone!

[wishbone]

ya, let's show the world we're a bunch of fuck offs who are ungrateful! You gave us the olympics? TOO BAD WE DONT WANT THEM NYAH NYAH NYAHHHHH

[sidekick]

^i bet there have been many opposition groups at other olympics. probably something that doesn't get international media play though.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by sidekick

^i bet there have been many opposition groups at other olympics. probably something that doesn't get international media play though.

have we been getting international media play?

[DJ Ponz]

There is no way Vancouver/Whistler can back out of the Games. They have comprehensive, legally and financially binding contracts with the IOC. Plus, the government wants this.

This Watch group used to be the 'no-olympics' coalition. They will do nothing because they have no street cred - as demonstrated by this board.

I've had a bit of experience with VANOC in my line of work and I can assure you that they are incredibly progressive, accomplished and professional people. When you hear nasties about them on the news, I would suggest taking it with a grain of salt. Media never tells us about the major victories they've won - and there are many. I don't think there is a person in that organization who doesn't want the best for this city and these Games.

Some other random points for you:
- We got HUGE international media play in Turin. Our log cabin in the heart of the city was one of the 'must go-to places'. Too bad our closing ceremonies sucked. But that lesson has been learned.
- The rising dollar would help, not hurt our cost-accounting. Labour and material costs - specifically steel and concrete - are what's killing us. Bid-book projections didn't account for inflation, nor did they use discounting as normal projects do. They too are part of the problem.
- The amount of money we're going to spend on the Olympics is a drop in the bucket in terms of federal/provincial budgets
- Summer Olympics are WAY more expensive than Winter ones
- We're spending less than Turin
- When the NDP says the Olympics are a bad thing: remember who first got this ball rolling.....them.
- VANOC easily has the most comprehensive and progressive environmental management programs ever
- Eagle Ridge Bluffs was about NIMBY, not the environment. That environmental assessment is one of the best co-ordinated ones I've ever seen - and I've seen a lot.

[thebobman]

Dubai Ports just bought the port of vancouver and are looking for other investments. I very seriously doublt we'll loose that olympic bid

[esoter1c]

Another $26 million approved..........................

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...y.html?ref=rss

This is gonna fuck Vancity big time.

[Technix]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Another $26 million approved..........................

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...y.html?ref=rss

This is gonna fuck Vancity big time.

Great.

We might as well bend over a little bit further...

An appropriate metaphor would be that it is like an anal fisting session with no lube...

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Another $26 million approved..........................

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...y.html?ref=rss

This is gonna fuck Vancity big time.

Yeah like it would be a bad idea to pull out now no doubt that's highly retarded, but it's not so much that they are off as it is how MUCH they are off.

The percentage margain is what, almost 1/3 overbudget and we still have a good 4 years or so into it.

People may remember the 1976 Olympics in Montreal where "Nadia Comaneci stole our hearts." It was more than hearts that were stolen. The people of Montreal are still paying for the Majesty of the Summer Games three decades later, even though at the time one official said "Olympics cause deficits as often as men have babies."

The Great Olympics Scam

[Flip]

I think B.C should reject the Olympics and make a bid for the Special Olympics. Then I plan on opening up a helmet shop and cashing in!!

[Senior]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Yeah really, I mean who knew the olympics would be expensive?

Well they are going to cost around 7 times more than anticipated. So yes tax payers do have a readson to be pissed. However if you dig up my original post I argued they shouldn't be expected to break even on a 2 week event. I still think mega projects like the RAV Line and the Sea to Sky upgrade shouldn't be included in the Olympic total as they were already needed.

On a side note I find it amusing that everyone on this board is so keen to ride the wave of the man. Most people wait to sell out till their late 20's or early 30's.

[MissBehavior]

The thing about the rising costs I would guess DOES have alot to do with labour: there's not enough workers to go around these days. Ask anyone in construction. Many projects go over projected budgets simply because there isn't enough manpower to get it done in time. Also, since there IS such a shortage of workers, doesn't it stand to reason that it's going to cost more to employ the ones that are available?

Supply and demand and all that jazz...

[DJ Ponz]

People need to get the facts straight. The capital infrastructure budget covers the construction of new venues and the renovation of existing facilities. As of January 2006, the federal and provincial governments has each committed $255 million to the capital budget for a total of $510 million. Really people, this is not a lot of money in the big picture. Put this in perspective: how much money we waste in healthcare.

Sea to sky expansion, RAV and the convention centre are not Olympic projects. All of these provincial infrastructure developments were decided upon before we won the Games - that is fact. Their completion dates were pushed forward because of the Games - this is what academics call 'hallmark decision-making'.

The operating budget for hosting the 2010 Games is funded by television revenues, corporate sponsorships, ticket sales, licences and other private contributions. VANOC will be responsible for obtaining the necessary funding - and has - more than any other Winter Olympic organizing committee in history. Government funding is not intended for the operating budget. Security (i think 175 million) is payed for by sponsorships, media rights and licences.

Even if you were to frame 2010 as an economic disaster - which its not - the province spent more on Expo and Fast Ferries separately. These Games are going to have both tangible (eg Trout Lake, Vancouver Olympic Village, Nat Bailey and UBC not to mention Whistler's shit) and intangible legacies (eg. tourism, recognition and pride).

*Edit - Incidentally, when people talk about costs, it is rare they ever talk about revenues. These will likely not balance the equation, but again, expendiatures I argue are misunderstood both in terms of numbers and context.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

People need to get the facts straight. The capital infrastructure budget covers the construction of new venues and the renovation of existing facilities. As of January 2006, the federal and provincial governments has each committed $255 million to the capital budget for a total of $510 million. Really people, this is not a lot of money in the big picture. Put this in perspective: how much money we waste in healthcare.

Do you think these projects will come in on budget? If they do not then who pays for thr over run? Where did you get the idea that health care is a [i]waste[i]?

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Sea to sky expansion, RAV and the convention centre are not Olympic projects. All of these provincial infrastructure developments were decided upon before we won the Games - that is fact. Their completion dates were pushed forward because of the Games - this is what academics call 'hallmark decision-making'.

These are projects that were decided on before we won the games but were on the books as part of our bid. Keep in mind it was the NDP government that started the bid process way back when. So yes these projects were announced before the bid was officially won but they are very clearly Olympic projects. Who are 'the' academics?

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

The operating budget for hosting the 2010 Games is funded by television revenues, corporate sponsorships, ticket sales, licences and other private contributions. VANOC will be responsible for obtaining the necessary funding - and has - more than any other Winter Olympic organizing committee in history. Government funding is not intended for the operating budget. Security (i think 175 million) is payed for by sponsorships, media rights and licences.

Hopefully the operating budget can be covered by sponsorship and so on. If there is a short fall though who pays that? [b]Government funding is part of the operating budget[b] if you count security under that category. Security is being handled by the RCMP (tax payer funded last time I checked) and is currently budgeted at $180 million. This however is going to go up and likely by a lot, Salt lake City spent over $300 million US on the games.

I would like to know what winter Olympics in recent history has actually made money or broke even? As far as I know the answer is none.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Even if you were to frame 2010 as an economic disaster - which its not - the province spent more on Expo and Fast Ferries separately. These Games are going to have both tangible (eg Trout Lake, Vancouver Olympic Village, Nat Bailey and UBC. not to mention Whistler's shit) and intangible legacies (eg. tourism, recognition and pride).

I'm not trying to frame the games as an economic disaster. However having reviewed the facts I'm not going to pretend they won't cost a lot of money. Also having looked at the facts it is likely they will go over budget. When it does go over budget tax payers will have to cover that. Now all that said I still support the games. I think that much like Expo did in the 80's they are serving as a way of modernizing our region. Olympics or not I want to see this increased focus on athletics and winter sports.

I'll just go ahead though and be the first to say that the fast ferries sunk the NDP and the Olympics will sink the Liberals. The fast ferries cost less than half a billion and the Olympics will cost over 6.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

*Edit - Incidentally, when people talk about costs, it is rare they ever talk about revenues. These will likely not balance the equation, but again, expendiatures I argue are misunderstood both in terms of numbers and context.

So are you saying that the games will create less revenue then they cost to host? What is the context you are refering to?

[narc]

[DJ Ponz]

Originally Posted by Senior

Do you think these projects will come in on budget? If they do not then who pays for thr over run? Where did you get the idea that health care is a [i]waste[i]?

VANOC doesn't have the balls to ask for more even if they needed it. Funding would have to come from elsewhere - sponsorships etc.. But I do think the new projections are accurate - unless some massive unforeseen thing happens to world commodity prices. VANOC's February declaration that they needed the capital budget to be adjusted to 510million is final. This projection was made with 100% drawings and on-site grubbing done. I would bet my left nut that the Feds and the Province will not put more money into venue development.

It is clear to most rational human beings that our health care system is in tatters and will become economically unsustainable in the next decade. Almost 40% of the provincial budget is blown on healthcare - and its percentage is rising every year. People in the healthcare business will tell you there are wads of cash wasted on bureaucratic and delivery inefficiencies. These are wastes; public healthcare is not a waste.

These are projects that were decided on before we won the games but were on the books as part of our bid. Keep in mind it was the NDP government that started the bid process way back when. So yes these projects were announced before the bid was officially won but they are very clearly Olympic projects. Who are 'the' academics?

Obviously no one you've been exposed to. If a project was announced before we won the bid and they were clearly going to go ahead without the Olympics, then they do not constitute Olympic projects. As I said, the timelines have been pushed forward, but now somehow you can just package them up with the 'total Olympic cost'? You read too much '24 Hours'.

Hopefully the operating budget can be covered by sponsorship and so on. If there is a short fall though who pays that?

The Province and the Feds have been required by the IOC to underwrite it. I'm unclear on exact numbers on this one, but I do know, as pointed out previously, that VANOC has got more sponsorship than any other Winter OOC.

I would like to know what winter Olympics in recent history has actually made money or broke even? As far as I know the answer is none.

Salt Lake City claims to have made money. But even you should recognize calculating this is near impossible given you have to consider direct and indirect spending, discounting, multipliers etc..

I'll just go ahead though and be the first to say that the fast ferries sunk the NDP and the Olympics will sink the Liberals. The fast ferries cost less than half a billion and the Olympics will cost over 6

510, split 2 ways. Fast ferries 410 million one way, no legacy.

So are you saying that the games will create less revenue then they cost to host? What is the context you are refering to?

I'm saying that in general, people talk costs and ignore revenues. The media certainly does. People only think of spending when it is clear we're going to make at least some, if not most of it back through revenue. And even if we let the hoards into the venues for free, I'm still saying the Games are not that much money for the taxpayer. Ya, they're going to cost a lot, but not to Johnny Canuck. I'm not sure I can make it any clearer.

Thanks for flinging the neg karma btw. Nothing I have said here constitutes backpedaling as you so kindly suggest.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

VANOC doesn't have the balls to ask for more even if they needed it. Funding would have to come from elsewhere - sponsorships etc.. But I do think the new projections are accurate - unless some massive unforeseen thing happens to world commodity prices. VANOC's February declaration that they needed the capital budget to be adjusted to 510million is final. This projection was made with 100% drawings and on-site grubbing done. I would bet my left nut that the Feds and the Province will not put more money into venue development.

VANOC doesn't have the balls??? Why not just admit you're talking out your ass? Otherwise please back up this ridiculous statement. At least you'll have one nut left.

Why will the capital budget go up? Because these are construction projects and they often go over budget. Add to this the fact that there is already a major labor shortage and often becomes always.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

It is clear to most rational human beings that our health care system is in tatters and will become economically unsustainable in the next decade. Almost 40% of the provincial budget is blown on healthcare - and its percentage is rising every year. People in the healthcare business will tell you there are wads of cash wasted on bureaucratic and delivery inefficiencies. These are wastes; public healthcare is not a waste.

If you want to become a professor of anything try and avoid using anecdotal evidence at every corner. After reading this statement 3 times I still can't figure out if you think health care is a waste of money or not. The money is being blown but is not a waste??????

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Obviously no one you've been exposed to. If a project was announced before we won the bid and they were clearly going to go ahead without the Olympics, then they do not constitute Olympic projects. As I said, the timelines have been pushed forward, but now somehow you can just package them up with the 'total Olympic cost'? You read too much '24 Hours'.

Going to university will never make you smart, sorry guy.

As for Olympic or non Olympic expenses I will try one more time to get through to you. Olympic expenses are those that are incurred because we are hosting the Olympics. Simple enough so far? As it is these include the Sea to Sky upgrade, the RAV line, and the trade and convention center upgrade. Now before you make yourself look like more of an ass than you already have take a look at our Olypic bid book http://www.vancouver2010.com/en/Orga...istory/BidBook
and you'll see that these were all part of our bid. Further than that they were all sold to us as "Olympic" projects. We need to upgrade _______ because of the Olympics.

For local news I prefer the tyee.ca or straight.com but nice try.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

The Province and the Feds have been required by the IOC to underwrite it. I'm unclear on exact numbers on this one, but I do know, as pointed out previously, that VANOC has got more sponsorship than any other Winter OOC.

More back pedaling... Lets just stop the bleeding here and admit that Johny Canuck is who will be paying the bill. In case you've forgotten tax payers are the Provincial and federal governments.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Salt Lake City claims to have made money. But even you should recognize calculating this is near impossible given you have to consider direct and indirect spending, discounting, multipliers etc..

Salt Lake claims to have made money on there operating budget. This is different from making money and is the basis of the smoke and mirriors that you choose to believe. As an example it would be like me saying that my monthly expenses are $500 when that is actually just rent. Add to that transportation, food, bills, and entertainment and now you're looking at $2000+. Hopefully you're not studying economics...

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

510, split 2 ways. Fast ferries 410 million one way, no legacy.

Again $6,000,000,000 versus $410,000,000. Either way it's paid for by taxes.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

I'm saying that in general, people talk costs and ignore revenues. The media certainly does. People only think of spending when it is clear we're going to make at least some, if not most of it back through revenue. And even if we let the hoards into the venues for free, I'm still saying the Games are not that much money for the taxpayer. Ya, they're going to cost a lot, but not to Johnny Canuck. I'm not sure I can make it any clearer.

So you actually believe that a 2 week event is going to pay for all the expenses?????

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Thanks for flinging the neg karma btw. Nothing I have said here constitutes backpedaling as you so kindly suggest.

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

*Edit - Incidentally, when people talk about costs, it is rare they ever talk about revenues. These will likely not balance the equation, but again, expendiatures I argue are misunderstood both in terms of numbers and context.

So this quasi intelligent rambling was nothing to do with trying to back pedal? Right...

A little advice? Using random big words, italics, and bold font doesn't make you seem smart.

[Senior]

Oh and as far as the Olympic expenses go the auditor general agrees with me. You didn't look at his report either though did you?

[QUITEFRANKLY]

Originally Posted by Senior

VANOC doesn't have the balls??? Why not just admit you're talking out your ass? Otherwise please back up this ridiculous statement. At least you'll have one nut left.

Why will the capital budget go up? Because these are construction projects and they often go over budget. Add to this the fact that there is already a major labor shortage and often becomes always.



If you want to become a professor of anything try and avoid using anecdotal evidence at every corner. After reading this statement 3 times I still can't figure out if you think health care is a waste of money or not. The money is being blown but is not a waste??????



Going to university will never make you smart, sorry guy.

As for Olympic or non Olympic expenses I will try one more time to get through to you. Olympic expenses are those that are incurred because we are hosting the Olympics. Simple enough so far? As it is these include the Sea to Sky upgrade, the RAV line, and the trade and convention center upgrade. Now before you make yourself look like more of an ass than you already have take a look at our Olypic bid book http://www.vancouver2010.com/en/Orga...istory/BidBook
and you'll see that these were all part of our bid. Further than that they were all sold to us as "Olympic" projects. We need to upgrade _______ because of the Olympics.

For local news I prefer the tyee.ca or straight.com but nice try.

More back pedaling... Lets just stop the bleeding here and admit that Johny Canuck is who will be paying the bill. In case you've forgotten tax payers are the Provincial and federal governments.

Salt Lake claims to have made money on there operating budget. This is different from making money and is the basis of the smoke and mirriors that you choose to believe. As an example it would be like me saying that my monthly expenses are $500 when that is actually just rent. Add to that transportation, food, bills, and entertainment and now you're looking at $2000+. Hopefully you're not studying economics...

Again $6,000,000,000 versus $410,000,000. Either way it's paid for by taxes.

So you actually believe that a 2 week event is going to pay for all the expenses?????





So this quasi intelligent rambling was nothing to do with trying to back pedal? Right...

A little advice? Using random big words, italics, and bold font doesn't make you seem smart.

SENIOR YOUR THE SHIT
Remind me not to get into a heated discussion with you
When we gonna have that beer at johnnie foxes?
whatcha doin saturday?