North Korea tests nuclear capabilities.

[KenJi]

^ the scaries part is now. If the U.S were to invade and attack North Korea. North Korea would not hesitate at all to attack and possibly destroy Japan. Japan could not put up a fight if north korea did attack.

The attack would be easily within an hours notice that the u.s or another country were coming to attack north korea.

Maybe it wouldn't be that bad if there weren't so many surrounding countries around N. Korea with limited military's, but there is

[decypher]

US isn't going to attack N.Korea. They are going to push for heavy sanctions then bolster Japan and S.Korea's defences. Sort of how they bolster Israel.

[KenJi]

Originally Posted by decypher

US isn't going to attack N.Korea. They are going to push for heavy sanctions then bolster Japan and S.Korea's defences. Sort of how they bolster Israel.

^ ya i know but If any country were to attack North Korea. North Korea would not hesitate to attack japan at all. Just think as in if another country did not they will.

North Korea takes authority like a little child. They lie and will not subject to anything.

[decypher]

I don't think anyone would attack N.Korea at the moment. China and Russia are refusing to make a resolution that calls on Chapter 7 of the UN charter. That would allow military action. The US being spread out with there other hegemonic aspirations won't move unilaterally on N.Korea. They did say however that they would view any attack on Japan or S.Korea as an attack on the US. So we could see a sort of WWI type of domino effect.

[KenJi]

^ point is its a scary situation, that some people on here honestly view as nothing at all to worry about.

[.anya]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/1...ml#skip300x250

Well, the sanctions have been put in place, as expected. I'm wondering what North Korea's response will be, beyond "totally rejecting" the resolution...

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by LastWerd

I say good on N. Korea

CNN reporter was saying N.Korea has been very difficult through out all this; ignoring the US warnings to stop.

What gives the US the right to tell them to stop? If N.Korea should stop, shouldn't the US as well? They arn't being difficult; they DONT have to listen to that.

911 was totally staged so the US could invade Iraq and take all the oil, etc.
Don't you guys ever wonder why NO ONE ever talks or reports about the people killed on the planes that flew into the towers?
Or how there was ABSOLUTLEY NO plane reckage in the pentagon. People say it all blew up and evaporated.... YA FUCKING RIGHT. That is impossible. Also the hole the plane supposidly made was hella small... hmm the size of a mistle maybe! Launched from inside the US!

N.Korea is just protecting them selves. I don't think they will or are planning to start a war (I am not sure, don't know enough about them).

The US would have to stage another 911 type of act so they can invade N.Korea. We may not get a lot of things imported from them, but there are things and they are just protecting themselves and seem to have more issues with other countries. N.Korea is just showing that they can keep up. They want to have some kind of protection incase they do get victimized. Really all they are doing is trying to scare people off. That is what I think.

I wouldn't worry much about them; continue to worry about the states and try to do something about it.

Also, I noticed yesterday for the first time ever; downtown side of lions gate bridge there is a goverment sign that says
"Welcome to Vancouver. Nuclear weapons free zone"
never noticed it before, is that new?

K, you're serious about "Good on N. Korea" ?

You would seriously encourage any nation, especially one ruled by a volatile totaliarian dictator to produce and test nuclear weapons?

If you care at all you'd probably want to "worry" about ANY nation continuing to produce or test nuclear weapons in this day and age.


sheesh.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

K, you're serious about "Good on N. Korea" ?

You would seriously encourage any nation, especially one ruled by a volatile totaliarian dictator to produce and test nuclear weapons?

If you care at all you'd probably want to "worry" about ANY nation continuing to produce or test nuclear weapons in this day and age.


sheesh.

Myra is 100% correct! The US will handle the situation in N.Korea just like they handled the situation in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan - all pillars of humanitarian conditions and democracy!

Perhaps after a million or so Koreans starve and die as a result of the US/N.Korea administrative cockfight, we "Canadians" can rest assure that our righteous social democrat hypocritical asses will sleep soundly with no "TERROR" at our doorsteps!

[miss.myra]

I don't really get how anything I said was related at all to that tangent you went on.

Do you think that it's ok and even encouragable for any nation to develop, test or store nuclear weapons these days?

[crookedking]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I don't really get how anything I said was related at all to that tangent you went on.

Do you think that it's ok and even encouragable for any nation to develop, test or store nuclear weapons these days?

i think he just agreed with you and then used the rest of his post to make his point.

edit-he should've said "myra is blah blah blah" and then hit the "enter" button for the rest of his post.

[fable]

Originally Posted by crookedking

i think he just agreed with you and then used the rest of his post to make his point.

edit-he should've said "myra is blah blah blah" and then hit the "enter" button for the rest of his post.

Look up.

[crookedking]

thanks.

one of my light bulbs burnt out.

edit-and if it hadn't of been for you i wouldn't have noticed for God only knows how long.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I don't really get how anything I said was related at all to that tangent you went on.

Do you think that it's ok and even encouragable for any nation to develop, test or store nuclear weapons these days?

I enjoy your abstract thinking and how it’s so easy for you to make such stupid remarks without thinking about any relevant context, or ramifications.

It’s a simple formula. We as westerners ignore the amazing oppression and illegal actions taken by our own western government. We then fail to realize that hostile actions taken by foreign governments are in fact retaliation to such history. Then our respective governments drum out more fear mongering and lies, and bullshit, and we bite. Then happy happy little peace loving arrogant assholes such as yourself blather on about nuclear Armageddon, thus contributing to a skewed and ultimately synthetic level of fear amongst the populace. Its grows and our respective governments then further accelerate aggression in the name of protecting humanity and national security, and slap down economic sanctions that have been responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of civilians (usually the bottom most layers of the classes in their respective nations)

You feel good, because you think you're progressive and you are spreading the word. Imperialist governments feel good because they charade continues unmolested. And in the mix millions of Koreans may die, or at the very least see their struggle and fight for real humanitarian change and social justice within their own country blow up in their face, along with any fledgling first steps towards a budding politicization of the most marginalized of peoples.

This isn’t a tangent, its reality. Pat yourself on the back Myra; you're a peacenik to be admired.

[fable]

Originally Posted by crookedking

thanks.

one of my light bulbs burnt out.

edit-and if it hadn't of been for you i wouldn't have noticed for God only knows how long.

Oh, i was refering to my original comment flying over your head. I figured you might have been able to catch a glimps of it. Nonetheless, its good you noticed your light bulb, typing in the dark is hard on the eyes.

[.anya]

Originally Posted by fable

And in the mix millions of Koreans may die, or at the very least see their struggle and fight for real humanitarian change and social justice within their own country blow up in their face, along with any fledgling first steps towards a budding politicization of the most marginalized of peoples.

Sorry, but where is your evidence of this so called "struggle and fight for real humanitarian change and social justice" in North Korea? If there truly is a humanitarian struggle going on in that country, the government is choosing quite an interesting way to pursue it...

[fable]

Originally Posted by .anya

Sorry, but where is your evidence of this so called "struggle and fight for real humanitarian change and social justice" in North Korea? If there truly is a humanitarian struggle going on in that country, the government is choosing quite an interesting way to pursue it...

Who said anything about the government?

[.anya]

^okay, now I'm even more curious. What is the evidence of a struggle for humanitarian change and justice in North Korea, and who is it being pursued by?

[fable]

Originally Posted by .anya

^okay, now I'm even more curious. What is the evidence of a struggle for humanitarian change and justice in North Korea, and who is it being pursued by?

WTF?? What exactly do you think N.Korea is? An entire country of nuclear warmongers who eat babies and drink blood? There is a struggle for humanitarian change and social justice going on across the entire world, because there are human beings across the entire world. Whatever their level of consciousness, and politicization is at this moment, the current actions/sanctions only freeze that process. Although I do not know of any specific organizations other than numerous Korean students and full time political organizers that I have worked with/are working with in Vancouver at the moment I do know that Korea as a whole and its current situation are very closely related to the US and its foreign policy more than evil baby eating nuclear warmongers.

The situation is N.Korea is oppressive and fucked up, I’ve understood that quite well from the beginning, understanding the balance of forces in the world. But I also understand that the most impoverished, oppressed and suppressed people in the world share many things in common - one of them being that they are the hardest hit, and most effected when situations like these, where two fucked up governments decide to whip out their dicks. BUT Korea as a whole only heals/repairs itself/progresses to some form of systemic social change, when Koreans works towards such change. US or international intervention only stalls the process, and like most cases in the past where the US has flexed, the situation usually detonates.

In Iraq 2 million died because of sanctions and the Lancet Medical Journal has reported at least 655 000 dead since the beginning of the invasion.

In Afghanistan at least tens of thousands of civilians have died.

In Haiti at least 250 000 civilians have died.

Then look farther back, Vietnam, Bosnia, Somalia __these places today represent what US foreign policy is- an economic policy that favors themselves and their own agenda, regardless of the state of the people of the respective nation they invade. Is this the proven track record that makes you believe that the US will actually resolve the issue in N.Korea?

The government of N.Korea is messed up, the government of the US makes messed up look like puppy love.

[Revolver]

some smart posts in this thread.....but really

wake the FUCK up people. of course the US neo-cons drummed up the US populace to go into and completely FUCK up and destabilize the arab world for oil.

to secure and prepare for the REAL war that is going to becoming with north korea and china....

scary stuff.....its like...anglo-euro-american-jew vs. THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!!!!!!11!!1!!1!!!!!

honestly folks, i think we should be watching this whole thing really,really close.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Revolver

scary stuff.....its like...anglo-euro-american-jew vs. THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!!!!!!11!!1!!1!!!!!

Putting the situation in the context of ethnocentric struggle is a mistake that only confuses the issue.

Its is and always been class warfare. In 91' numerous stats and studies showed that the 200 richest families in the world accounted for a net value of 1 trillion dollars, whereas the 580 million people that made up the 43 poorerst nations only acounted for 1.87 billion dollars. If this isnt a good example of the relevence of the "us vs. them" mentality, I dont know what is.

[fable]

The choice need not be between an oppressive Stalinist regime on the one hand, and rampant capitalism on the other. The only road forward is that of revolutionary proletarian internationalism, of genuine workers' democracy both north and south of the border.

Anya, heres a few articles, and essays you should check out. I am assuming that you have intimate experience and knowledge of the history of Korea as a whole, so I would also appreciate any more opinions you have of the situation, or any relevent articles/essays you would think relevent to study. I think we BOTH could stand to investigate the situation more closely, and help eachother understand the relevent issues more clearly.

http://www.marxist.com/where-is-nort...oing101006.htm

http://www.zmag.org/elich_korea.htm

ez

[crookedking]

Originally Posted by fable

Oh, i was refering to my original comment flying over your head. I figured you might have been able to catch a glimps of it. Nonetheless, its good you noticed your light bulb, typing in the dark is hard on the eyes.

especially with that light coming off of the monitor.

[Antenna_Boy]

^hahaahah :)

[decypher]

Originally Posted by fable

In Iraq 2 million died because of sanctions and the Lancet Medical Journal has reported at least 655 000 dead since the beginning of the invasion.

It has also been said that sanctions helped solidify Hussein's control as well.

[.anya]

Fable, thanks for the articles! I didn't get through all of the second one, but the first one was interesting. However, it was highly normative and based on axioms that you seem to accept and I don't, which is probably where we differ. Also, I don't really see how the article provides any evidence of a struggle going on to internally promote justice.

I don't know what people in North Korea think, or rather what they have been brainwashed to think. And I can't make the same assuptions as you do (namely that there is "a struggle for humanitarian change and social justice going on across the entire world") because I believe that the class-based analysis you are stemming your ideas from is becoming less and less relevant. Again, this is from my experience and knowledge, and from what I have seen go on around me. Yes, "the most impoverished, oppressed and suppressed people in the world share many things in common", but I believe that it is a society that provides people (no matter what class) with the maximum number of choices, not one which encourages them to unite because of their social standing, that will promote development the most.

You say that you have spoken to numerous Korean in Vancouver about the issue? Were they North Koreans? If you can find me a North Korean I could talk to about living there, I'd be happy to get in touch with him/her. However, North Korea and South Korea are very different. I spent a portion of my childhood in South Korea, but I don't profess to know a lot about North Korea internally, precisely because the level of access to that nation is severely resticted. Also, all political activists have an agenda, which likely restrict the viewpoints they will expose you to (but that's an antirely different question.)

I don't think that North Koreans eat babies and drink blood, and nor did I ever condone or condemn the sanctions being imposed on the nation by the U.S., or anyone else. However, I do believe that the regime that is in place now and ineffective and detrimental to the people of that nation. This is because it limits the very thing essential to human development (in my view) - the ability to make choices. If North Koreans had individually and rationally (that is, having access to a wide variety of sources and information) made the choice to live under the current regime, I could see how North Korea would be justified in many of its actions. But it it not as long as its people are merely agents who do not have room for free thought and development. And, as for the U.S. having a foreign policy which favours mainly themselves and doesn't take much consideration of their competitors? That can be said about the foreign policy of most other nations, including North Korea.

Anyways, I hope I've made you see that our discrepancy comes primarily at the ideological level...