Stand Up!

[fable]

Originally Posted by SmokeOne

actually im not racist at all i have quite a few native canadian(indian) friends and they actually say the same thing

This cliche never gets old. Nonetheless I didnt call you a racist, but the comments you shared earlier were.

..they blame them selves for how they are portrayed. I love my buddys and id fight for them for anything..but when they are saying what i am sayin it makes you think..

I dont know your freinds, but no class or race has an homogenous opinion about their current situation or their history. This could be compounded by many things. In the case of Indigenous peoples one needs to factor in the very impact of their history of being oppressed which is more than you or I will ever be able to trully fathom. However we do know the impact is immense, and years upon years of forced assimilation, slaughter and exploitation will be felt for decades to come, considering that significant attacks on Indigenous peoples that still happen today.

Mabe you are fighting the wrong battle...Mabe really figure out what you are actually fighting for.

I know what Im fighting more, more than I ever wished for.

It sounds like you really care about your freinds, which is cool, so perhaps you should invite them out to spend some time with other Indigenous peoples/organizers/activists who are very involved in their community, and better yet, you should come out too.

Hit me up if you're ever interested, whether its resources or events. Peep the links to articles I posted earlier in this thread.

ez

[robyn]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

So they didn't sell us any land.
hmm, I am pretty sure there are a few documents in a museum somewhere
that might disagree.

I am pretty sure there's quite a few arguments surrounding the fact that they couldn't read the documents they were signing.

[-evil-duerr-]

this thread is another case of

smart people vs. dumb people with loud opinions.

the classic fnk struggle.



that's all i have to say, this thread is fucking exhausting to read. too many twats.

[kiMMie]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

this thread is another case of

smart people vs. dumb people with loud opinions.

the classic fnk struggle.



that's all i have to say, this thread is fucking exhausting to read. too many twats.

I agree with you on this one. I poked my head in a couple of pages ago for monitoring, but I mean... this is ridiculous.

In life, everyone's opinions differ and range with experience, education and culture. Trying to beat someone to a pulp to get them to think and believe in something exactly like you is next to impossible. I would have hoped that instead of "arguing" a point across, some members would have been more inclined to "enlighten" the public with new information to help people to understand the devastations of the world.

In the end... it's all sad. Racism, poverty, democracy, communism, predjuidice are all reoccurring issues that have been argued and defended in the past. It's a never ending circle. It gets passed on day by day, minute by minute. This is how we fuel the topics. I wonder if we never talked about these issues again, would it just wither away?

[fable]

Originally Posted by kiMMie

I agree with you on this one. I poked my head in a couple of pages ago for monitoring, but I mean... this is ridiculous.

In life, everyone's opinions differ and range with experience, education and culture. Trying to beat someone to a pulp to get them to think and believe in something exactly like you is next to impossible. I would have hoped that instead of "arguing" a point across, some members would have been more inclined to "enlighten" the public with new information to help people to understand the devastations of the world.

In the end... it's all sad. Racism, poverty, democracy, communism, predjuidice are all reoccurring issues that have been argued and defended in the past. It's a never ending circle. It gets passed on day by day, minute by minute. This is how we fuel the topics. I wonder if we never talked about these issues again, would it just wither away?

Your approach is academic. Discussion, debate, whatever - fuels action - action that is very necessary, because unlike posts on a chatboard, systemic oppression, violence, etc doesnt just go away. Evils comment about dumb people vs. smart people and loud opinions is simply untrue. The issues are explosive, why should the conversation be any different? The key, is being dedicated to go through the process, regardless of the pain, the frustration or the strife.

ez

[kiMMie]

Originally Posted by fable

Your approach is academic. Discussion, debate, whatever - fuels action - action that is very necessary, because unlike posts on a chatboard, systemic oppression, violence, etc doesnt just go away. Evils comment about dumb people vs. smart people and loud opinions is simply untrue. The issues are explosive, why should the conversation be any different? The key, is being dedicated to go through the process, regardless of the pain, the frustration or the strife.

ez

I agree that serious issues like oppression, violence, racism, etc don't just go away because unfortunately, there are more people than yesterday, and the day before yesterday that continue to commit these "crimes". However, I feel that the wrong information gets passed on from generation to generation and people nowadays are too easily influenced by the wrong, rather than what is right. It's a shame really.

I actually support educated discussions and relay of information as a means to communicate and understand other people's views and opinions. Mind you, some of the posts in this particular thread I felt were not very educated (but that's just my opinion), however, some were; hence, I have decided to leave this thread open.

It would be nice to read something that people have done or participated into fight these issues than continuous arguments in opinions. I think that's a healthier step. :)

[fable]

Originally Posted by kiMMie

I agree that serious issues like oppression, violence, racism, etc don't just go away because unfortunately, there are more people than yesterday, and the day before yesterday that continue to commit these "crimes". However, I feel that the wrong information gets passed on from generation to generation and people nowadays are too easily influenced by the wrong, rather than what is right. It's a shame really.

I actually support educated discussions and relay of information as a means to communicate and understand other people's views and opinions. Mind you, some of the posts in this particular thread I felt were not very educated (but that's just my opinion), however, some were; hence, I have decided to leave this thread open.

It would be nice to read something that people have done or participated into fight these issues than continuous arguments in opinions. I think that's a healthier step. :)

No argument from me! (suprise) But one of the most critical process I believe a human has to go through is understand
A) most oppression/exploitation/marginalization/violence has a material base
B) Racism is synthetic and bred by those with interest in the division of people they rule
C) It is very easy to approach an incident, event, ongoing oppression as if it existed in a vaccum which it never does and
D) One must tear away ways of defective thinking which we are conditioned into using by the systems we live under, if we intend to change or destroy or reform those very systems

check out the following for a glimpse into action, education and unification that are being waged
http://www.vancubasolidarity.com
http://www.mawovancouver.org
http://www.firethistime.net

ez (thx for not closing this thread)

[Senior]

Originally Posted by fable

_Why cannot people be allowed to fight their own struggles?

People are fighting their own struggles all around the World. However when a situation gets so far out of control that an entire racial group is going to be killed something has to be done. As an international community it's important that efforts are made to avert armed conflicts and lessen the impacts when they occur.

Did you even read my last post?

Originally Posted by fable

_When you talk about helping the people of Africa, is it you are I, or people in similar layers of society going there to help them under the pretense of humanitarian assistance?

what are you trying to say?

Originally Posted by fable

_What is the United Nations? Is it a mechanism of sustaining economic disparity? Does the UN have a history of being used by the very same Imperialist countries that cry out for humanitarian aid to be sent to third world countries?

Again, what are you trying to say? this sounds more like a statement phrased as a question.

Originally Posted by fable

_When has a UN military mission ever been successful?

well you need to first define success.

Originally Posted by fable

_What does Rwanda in 94' say about the UN, France and the US? Was Rwanda rich in resources like Sudan or as a strategic location as Somalia?

Are you trying to suggest that the World might be a corrupt place that plays favorites. Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by fable

_What does the independence of the Congo, Somalia, South African, and Algeria say about African people and their resolve, toughness, resiliency, hope and pride?

Are you asking me to write a book here or what? Maybe you could try a little harder at making your own points here.

Originally Posted by fable

_What role does colonialism play in the current state of African society?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

_What are France's the US's and Chinas economic interests and current investments in Africa?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

_Why did the US support, fund and outfit the SLA, JEM and Janjaweed militias?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

_What has the "end to sectarian violence, humanitarian assistance, creation of democracy" brought to Iraq, Afghanistan or Haiti?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

_Are attacks on oppressed and marginalized layers of society decreasing or increasing in France, Canada or the US?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

_Does the current national administrations of France, the US or Canada truly represent the layers of society that would come closest to resembling those of Africa?

yet another essay question...

Originally Posted by fable

You’ve proved time and time again you can argue with abstract accounts of history but what I care about is can you discuss matters in the context of the material base of military intervention of Imperialist countries? Or will it be naivety as usual?

without answering any my questions, or even attempting to address any of the points I've made you've once again dismissed everything I said as naive. No wonder we don't get along.

[fable]

_If you understand that the governments of Canada, the US, France and any Imperialist country does not have the interests of the lower and largest levels of society in mind.

_If you understand that economic self-interest of world powers/business is at the core of the world wide systemic oppression and poverty.

Then how does one believe supporting such governments and their military forces will help the people of any third world nation?

The economic crisis across the globe, the advance stages of capitalism as imperialism, the polarization between the marginalized layers of society and the governments that rule them, and all the mechanisms that such governments utilize whether it is a national or international army, and somehow you are convinced that despite all this, they will and can help the very people they oppress?

And somehow I’m wrong when I call you naive? You ignore history, you ignore economic interests, you ignore class disparity, you ignore precedent and you opt for the abstract vs. the material.

And then you call me an idiot.

nice!

[Ninja_Sage]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Screw that we gave them beads fair and square for that land !

Um nope, from what I read, BC was stolen from the Natives here.

Now the Natives who play by Victoria's rules get to sell off their people's land in exchange for $$$ and power by being elected.

Harriet Nahanee and Eagleridge Bluffs was murdered by elected officials on both sides.

[Ninja_Sage]

Originally Posted by gnosis

But...that's how the multinational corporations have been playing the Canadian people for Decades!

Frosty
(...Skydome?...)

That's correct.

Remax advertises outside Prospera Centre in Chilliwack.

A HK billionaire owns part of Vancouver, and 10% of CIBC. And a CIBC official is on the SIRC overseeing CSIS.

[Ninja_Sage]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

nice teeth and big tits are awsome!

And I think her IQ is bigger than mine!

[fable]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Sage

Harriet Nahanee and Eagleridge Bluffs was murdered by elected officials on both sides.

"What we need is an Indigenous Malcolm X to put some pride back into these lost souls"
-Harriet Nahanee