Can someone explain who or what decides gas prices?

[FireWire]

I heard it has something to do with the oil situation in the Middle East and George Bush's economical decisions but I don't remember the source of that information, and I doubt/suspect that might not even be true.

Anyone know?

[tiedye]

It's kind of a twisted take on supply and demand. When we demand more, they are less willing to supply it. My father works in the fuel industry and some of the increases he's dealt with are so obviously related to natural disasters, war, politics, you name it. When that whole deal with the $8.8 billion in oil being unaccounted for in the Middle East went down, gas went down by nearly 15c in a month up here.

Oil is power.

[crookedking]

he who controls the oil controls the universe!

[esoter1c]

It all depends on whether or not Cheney wants to wipe his as with 100's or 1000's that day.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by crookedking

he who controls the oil controls the universe!

"I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply." -- Nathan Mayer Rothschild

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws" -- Mayer Amschel Bauer

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." -- Amschel Mayer Rothschild

[Senior]

you have a few basic factors. first off the price of crude oil. if it goes up eventually gasoline will as well. then you have demand. in the summer some people drive more so the price goes up. then there's the fact that no jurisdiction anywhere in North America will allow a new gasoline refinery to be built. so with a very used and finite production capacity any sort of fuck up at a refinery raises prices big time. after Hurricane Katrina prices went up because the largest refinery around there got shut down for 2-3 months for repairs from the damage.

there are many more reasons for the price of gas including taxes but generally this is what sets the price.

[liquidblue]

OPEC runs the show. The big boys decide when to crank up the price for crude oil. Due to inelastic demand people will still buy the oil. The rest of the worlds smaller oil companies naturally follow suit for many many reasons. no oil company in its right mind will try to undercut current pricing, they only have money to loose. the demand for petro is going to stay constant in the near future no matter where prices go. Companies like Petro only gain by following the high prices of OPEC.

All this talk about a growing shortage of oil is hype. Dont get me wrong, we are running out, and we will run out, but not in the near future. Recently there have been vast oil reserves discovered which has greatly increased the volume of oil that the world is believed to have. Guess what? we have shitloads more oil than we thought.

The hype is just one thing that is used to justify rising oil prices. Dont think the prices cant, and wont drop. Believe me, if the oil companies start to get into real danger, oil prices will plummet. I think the prices are going to keep rising, and in the future we might have rediculous prices, but there is tooooons of time for the market to dive again.

[Senior]

what are these new reserves? and you say that if oil companies get in trouble prices will go down???? I would expect the opposite. as oil becomes more scarce the price will sky rocket. also with major growth in demand from the third World that looks to be long term I don't see any decline in price coming. don't get me wrong there will be fluctuations like any other global market but the $30 barrel of oil is just gone.

Originally Posted by liquidblue

OPEC runs the show. The big boys decide when to crank up the price for crude oil. Due to inelastic demand people will still buy the oil. The rest of the worlds smaller oil companies naturally follow suit for many many reasons. no oil company in its right mind will try to undercut current pricing, they only have money to loose. the demand for petro is going to stay constant in the near future no matter where prices go. Companies like Petro only gain by following the high prices of OPEC.

All this talk about a growing shortage of oil is hype. Dont get me wrong, we are running out, and we will run out, but not in the near future. Recently there have been vast oil reserves discovered which has greatly increased the volume of oil that the world is believed to have. Guess what? we have shitloads more oil than we thought.

The hype is just one thing that is used to justify rising oil prices. Dont think the prices cant, and wont drop. Believe me, if the oil companies start to get into real danger, oil prices will plummet. I think the prices are going to keep rising, and in the future we might have rediculous prices, but there is tooooons of time for the market to dive again.

[Gunter S]

illuminati

[liquidblue]

If it gets considerably more scarce there is no question that prices will skyrocket. By trouble, I mean a rapid shift towards an alternate fuel source. If there is considerable less demand the prices will drop. Im not saying this is going to happen, but its a possibility.

What I am trying to point out is that we did not run out of half the oil within a few years, but the price has more than doubbled. Supply vs demmand. Well the supply is there, OPEC is just playing with people.

The estimates of the oil reserves is so variable that there is no possible way that it can be accurately determined. It seems like people think that we are going to run out of oil in 20 years hahaha, not going to happen. With the current development of alternate fuel technologies, in just 10 years we will be considerably less dependent on oil (at least for the auto fuel industry).

technology is already a lot farther ahead than most people think. Electric cars? already exist with excellent technology. www.teslamotors.com <350km range, faster than a porsche. only cost 100K, and this is due to the batteries being expensive. they are already opening a plant to build a more family oriented model. Believe me, the price of li-ion batteries is going to drop very quick.

anyways blah balh on and on

[esoter1c]

Looks like Cheney ate some fuckin Taco Bell last night.

[DefJef]

Supply and demand definitely contribute to the cost of fuel, but this guy has the final say.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by liquidblue

If it gets considerably more scarce there is no question that prices will skyrocket. By trouble, I mean a rapid shift towards an alternate fuel source. If there is considerable less demand the prices will drop. Im not saying this is going to happen, but its a possibility.

What I am trying to point out is that we did not run out of half the oil within a few years, but the price has more than doubbled. Supply vs demmand. Well the supply is there, OPEC is just playing with people.

The estimates of the oil reserves is so variable that there is no possible way that it can be accurately determined. It seems like people think that we are going to run out of oil in 20 years hahaha, not going to happen. With the current development of alternate fuel technologies, in just 10 years we will be considerably less dependent on oil (at least for the auto fuel industry).

technology is already a lot farther ahead than most people think. Electric cars? already exist with excellent technology. www.teslamotors.com <350km range, faster than a porsche. only cost 100K, and this is due to the batteries being expensive. they are already opening a plant to build a more family oriented model. Believe me, the price of li-ion batteries is going to drop very quick.

anyways blah balh on and on

the thing about the global oil supply is not that it's going to run out in 20 or even 30 years. it's that the easy to get at stuff is going to be gone. when you first tap an oil well the oil is under pressure and it literally comes bubbling out making it easy to get. this oil is also what's know as light crude and is cheaper to process. as that runs out there is still oil in the well but it needs to forced out by pumping either water or natural gas into the wells and forcing the heavy crude out. at this point it costs more to get out and then more to process.

also don't be fooled by electric cars. while they don't directly run off oil the electricity they use is going to come from a natural gas or coal fired power plant. less than 10% of electricity in North America is hydro electric meaning electricity is not a clean fuel either.

At this point there is nothing close to replacing oil as our primary fuel source. there are many technologies that can reduce our use of it but nothing close to replacing it.

[MC Hammered]

Supply and demand and as long as people are willing to pay the price why would they have any incentive to change it?

Unfortunately gasoline is deemed a 'necessity' and people are unwilling to stop driving their cars.

So it is a vicious circle and we can complain all we want but I don't think much is going to happen anytime soon.

So I just decided to buy a bunch of stock in various oil and gas companies and hope that their increase will help offset the price I pay at the pump.

[SEAN!]

Essentially there is a global market for all the different types of oil and related derivatives. This includes Texas Light Crude which is the benchmark that is often the quoted as the global oil price on the news. There are also markets for refined products as well as all the other grades of fuels. Currently the major constraint that is causing high gas prices at the pump is a global lack of refining capacity. This explains that, while crude oil prices have declined from their highs, the price of petrol at the pump has actually increased.

The futures markets that trade these derivatives can be described as auction houses where buyers and sellers bid on the price of oil, the price is set by that interaction. However there are many factors that underline the actions/perceptions of the buyers and sellers. These factors are not simple to explain or understand and they ultimately determine how the market prices oil. The market is really a thing of its own.

[-evil-duerr-]

probably ghosts and robots.
or ghost robots.

[Grapes]

I think leprechauns are involved somehow as well.

[oddsbodikins]

If gas prices are cheaper in Edmonton, I'll move there.

[Leviathan]

Originally Posted by liquidblue

technology is already a lot farther ahead than most people think. Electric cars? already exist with excellent technology. www.teslamotors.com <350km range, faster than a porsche. only cost 100K, and this is due to the batteries being expensive. they are already opening a plant to build a more family oriented model. Believe me, the price of li-ion batteries is going to drop very quick.

anyways blah balh on and on

The Tesla accelerates faster than a Porsche, its top speed is not faster. Sure Lithium Ion batteries are going to come down in cost but that isn't why they aren't being used right now. The reason is mostly due to lifetime validation of the technology. We will most likely see lithium in the next Prius but won't see it in any other automotive capacity for a good couple of years. The technology just isn't quite there yet and the encumbent NiMH batteries work really well and are well understood.

I saw JB Straubel talk a couple weeks ago. During a question and answer session he was asked about the warranty on the batteries and he pretty much said they didn't know exactly what it was going to be yet. I get the impression it will only be based on manufacturing defects, not on A-hr throughput or capacity fade.

[Leviathan]

The great things about electric cars is that they are truly the only flex fuel vehicle. The electricity be from on or off grid, solar, hydro, coal, nuclear and so on.

Originally Posted by Senior

also don't be fooled by electric cars. while they don't directly run off oil the electricity they use is going to come from a natural gas or coal fired power plant. less than 10% of electricity in North America is hydro electric meaning electricity is not a clean fuel either.

[Chewy]

the only way to lower gas prices is to stop driving all the time.

[Webber]

they have this system where they pick a number out of a hat, and after that number has been used X amount of times they throw it away, we have simply used all the low numbers and we are starting to use the high ones now

[crookedking]

Originally Posted by Webber

they have this system where they pick a number out of a hat, and after that number has been used X amount of times they throw it away, we have simply used all the low numbers and we are starting to use the high ones now

you can't compare oil prices to an episode of the popular game show "deal or no deal".

there's no howie in the real world, baby.

[liquidblue]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

The Tesla accelerates faster than a Porsche, its top speed is not faster. Sure Lithium Ion batteries are going to come down in cost but that isn't why they aren't being used right now. The reason is mostly due to lifetime validation of the technology. We will most likely see lithium in the next Prius but won't see it in any other automotive capacity for a good couple of years. The technology just isn't quite there yet and the encumbent NiMH batteries work really well and are well understood.

I saw JB Straubel talk a couple weeks ago. During a question and answer session he was asked about the warranty on the batteries and he pretty much said they didn't know exactly what it was going to be yet. I get the impression it will only be based on manufacturing defects, not on A-hr throughput or capacity fade.

True, The teslas top speed is lower than a porsche, The point I am trying to make is that electric vehicles are a lot more advanced than mainstream society believs.
Yes energy is off the grid but it is considerably cheaper. Coal powered electricity is an environmental problem, and is a totally different issue all togeather. (Goooo Nuclear) hahaha

There are other fuel sources available. If they really wanted to make a practical electric car 5 years ago it was possible. It can be done, and it will be. for 90% of driving done a full electric car is fine. For the rest a hybird or other transit is possible. there are also other fuel sources available like running off of canola oil. Canola puts off marginally lower BTU's of power per litre, however with rising gas prices soon it will be cheaper to run off of canola oil over gasoline. Not that canola oil could be supplied in the quantities needed, im just saying that there are many many many many alternate fuel sources out there that people discount. It is only government/oil company propaganda that has lead the end consumer to think these alternate means are not viable yet.

[DefJef]

Originally Posted by oddsbodikins

If gas prices are cheaper in Edmonton, I'll move there.

Don't do it... Edmonton is a huge Whalley.