do you believe in supernatural phenomena? or at least...

[Gunter S]

...principles of nature which Establishment Science tries to obfuscate or deny?

Here, I submit what could possibly be the effects of "ley lines", aka points on the earth where a special kind of energy (outside the four fundamental forces) collects and can be channeled.

Conventional 'scientific' explanation contends that these rocks (weighing up to 700 pounds) have moisture on them and are being pushed by the wind. you be the judge.







that's some wicked weather

[Gunter S]

bizzump

[Serotonin]

sometimes even a miracle needs a hand

[SEAN!]

whose denying what? Is it not those who believe in the paranormal that are denying empirical evidence and sound scientific principals/methodology. While instead they rather rely on magical thinking with no supporting evidence on the basis of faith alone?

I don't understand your mistrust of science, what benefit do scientists get out of lying about why some rocks are moving in the desert?

what has belief in the paranormal ever done to improve human lives relative to 'establishment science.' Thats backward thinking that belongs in the stone age.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

whose denying what? Is it not those who believe in the paranormal that are denying empirical evidence and sound scientific principals/methodology. While instead they rather rely on magical thinking with no supporting evidence on the basis of faith alone?

false premise, false dichotomy, start again.

Originally Posted by SEAN!

I don't understand your mistrust of science, what benefit do scientists get out of lying about why some rocks are moving in the desert?

what has belief in the paranormal ever done to improve human lives relative to 'establishment science.' Thats backward thinking that belongs in the stone age.

Establishment Science lies all the time. Just look at the FDA and how they keep pushing drugs that only make you sicker.

Does the wind explanation honestly sit well with you? even my four year old cousin pointed out that any weather forces strong enough to move a 700 pound rock would obviously disrupt the surrounding desert floor and erase any fine features. And fucking zig zag patterns?

[Prissypants]

The great thing about REAL science is that they want you to be able to supply the evidence to prove the theory wrong so that they can go down a path which will be correct... The problem with taking acts on faith is that they do not want to hear evidence to the contrary even if it makes more sense.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by Prissypants

The great thing about REAL science is that they want you to be able to supply the evidence to prove the theory wrong so that they can go down a path which will be correct... The problem with taking acts on faith is that they do not want to hear evidence to the contrary even if it makes more sense.

did you and the last guy mean to post in another thread by any chance? that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Gunter S

Establishment Science lies all the time. Just look at the FDA and how they keep pushing drugs that only make you sicker.

that's politics, not science.

Originally Posted by Gunter S

Does the wind explanation honestly sit well with you? even my four year old cousin pointed out that any weather forces strong enough to move a 700 pound rock would obviously disrupt the surrounding desert floor and erase any fine features. And fucking zig zag patterns?

this is not a supernatural phenomena, it's just unexplained. like most of the universe. "ley lines" fall under the same category.

just because science hasn't explained it doesn't mean it can't explain it and it certainly doesn't mean something "supernatural" has happened. and please note the difference between a theory and a fact.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

that's politics, not science.

i call it establishment science.

Originally Posted by kir mokum

this is not a supernatural phenomena, it's just unexplained. like most of the universe. "ley lines" fall under the same category.

just because science hasn't explained it doesn't mean it can't explain it and it certainly doesn't mean something "supernatural" has happened. and please note the difference between a theory and a fact.

I already know the difference between a theory and a fact, but fine, i'll stop using the word supernatural.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

that's politics, not science.

its more greed then anything, and it's more indicitative of the failure of regulation then that of science.

Yeah the idea of an unseen, unmeasurable and unexplainable 'energy' moving rocks is far more believable then the observable, documented and repeadedly demonstrated ability of water, air and temperature in shaping our environment. I guess its a magical force that causes all those landslides to close the sea to sky, because it can't possibly be soil erosion due to wind and water.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Gunter S

did you and the last guy mean to post in another thread by any chance? that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

It has everything to do with what you are talking about, your inability to understand that is also why you are so quick to embrace irrational magical thinking.

I guess rational thinking has never been your strong point wum, that explains why you keep coming back after repeadedly being banned, it just dosn't make any sense.

[V.!.M.]

chuck norris can do all of it and more....

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Gunter S

i call it establishment science.

science has about as much power as any of the lobby groups with the decisions the FDA makes. if you think the FDA is a good representation of "establishment science" or any kind of science then you are grossly misinformed. the FDA is mostly made up of lawyers, not scientist. besides the "science" that comes out of the FDA and the big pharma has absolutely fuck all to do with the science of some rocks moving via a presently unknown method. and just because we don't know doesn't mean it's "supernatural" (thanks for dropping the inane term). we don't know what happens on the "surface" of a black hole but that doesn't make it supernatural. weird shit happens sometimes usually due to a very specific set of circumstances and that's obviously whats going on here. i mean, if you want it to be ley lines then maybe the rock have a content similar to magnetic material that is attracted/repulsed by the energy moving through the ley lines. ley lines themselves could, and probably are, simply another weird natural phenomena that combines electro magnetism, gravity, the casimir effect, or other quantum phenomena which when combined in strange ways have extremely bizarre effects like the hutchison effect (which is also unexplained). just the combination of frequency and say voltage can have extremely bizarre effects.

basically if it's going to be explained it's going to be science that explains it. if anyone thinks otherwise, then you're a complete moron.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

science has about as much power as any of the lobby groups with the decisions the FDA makes. if you think the FDA is a good representation of "establishment science" or any kind of science then you are grossly misinformed. the FDA is mostly made up of lawyers, not scientist. besides the "science" that comes out of the FDA and the big pharma has absolutely fuck all to do with the science of some rocks moving via a presently unknown method. and just because we don't know doesn't mean it's "supernatural" (thanks for dropping the inane term). we don't know what happens on the "surface" of a black hole but that doesn't make it supernatural. weird shit happens sometimes usually due to a very specific set of circumstances and that's obviously whats going on here. i mean, if you want it to be ley lines then maybe the rock have a content similar to magnetic material that is attracted/repulsed by the energy moving through the ley lines. ley lines themselves could, and probably are, simply another weird natural phenomena that combines electro magnetism, gravity, the casimir effect, or other quantum phenomena which when combined in strange ways have extremely bizarre effects like the hutchison effect (which is also unexplained). just the combination of frequency and say voltage can have extremely bizarre effects.

basically if it's going to be explained it's going to be science that explains it. if anyone thinks otherwise, then you're a complete moron.

why are you calling ley lines 'magic' as opposed to unstudied? you're the one injecting the bullshit, not me

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

It has everything to do with what you are talking about, your inability to understand that is also why you are so quick to embrace irrational magical thinking.

I guess rational thinking has never been your strong point wum, that explains why you keep coming back after repeadedly being banned, it just dosn't make any sense.

i think you're tripping over yourself trying to hard to be a critic, rather than a contributor.

[Gunter S]

the "science" that comes out of the FDA and the big pharma has absolutely fuck all to do with the science of some rocks moving via a presently unknown method

it shows that Establishment Science has far reaching tentacles and has tainted very much already

[kir mokum]

please point out where the word "magic" is in my post 'cause i can't for the life of me find it.

[Gunter S]

woops, meant to quote sean

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Gunter S

it shows that Establishment Science has far reaching tentacles and has tainted very much already

it's not the tentacles of science that are far reaching, it's the tentacles of politics and big business. if you can't tell the difference between the two then you must be a complete idiot.

riddle me this: if science isn't or can't explain this then what is?

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Gunter S

why are you calling ley lines 'magic' as opposed to unstudied? you're the one injecting the bullshit, not me

i'll respond for him (if he doesn't mind).

this is the most common understanding of what ley lines are:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

New Age: The ley lines and their intersection points resonate a special psychic or magical energy, often including elements such as geomancy, dowsing or UFOs, stating that, for instance, UFO's travel along ley lines (in the way that one might observe that cars use roads and highways). These points on lines have electrical or magnetic forces associated with them.

and since you're shitting on science (out of pure ignorance) then it's logical to assume that this is the definition that you're referring.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

it's not the tentacles of science that are far reaching, it's the tentacles of politics and big business. if you can't tell the difference between the two then you must be a complete idiot.

riddle me this: if science isn't or can't explain this then what is?

I'm calling it ESTABLISHMENT SCIENCE, which is to the study of nature as religion is to spirituality.

[Gunter S]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

i'll respond for him (if he doesn't mind).

this is the most common understanding of what ley lines are:


and since you're shitting on science (out of pure ignorance) then it's logical to assume that this is the definition that you're referring.

wow. because the ancients use different terminology for something, we must throw the baby out with the bathwater. way to go cumstain.

[kir mokum]

i'm not throwing anything out. please point out were i'm disregarding valid information? i would also suggest using real terms and refer to their real definition if you want to be understood by anyone. maybe forming an argument would help too. i don't think even YOU know what your position is. you keep throwing around these bullshit terms and then argue (poorly) over what they don't mean while still refusing to define them in any real terms and completely sidestep making a counterpoint to any of the arguments given. you didn't even mention "the ancients" (which is a purposely vague term used purely so no one can actually argue what you mean by it or what the terminology was that they used or what they knew which is also exactly analogous to your use of the term "establishment science") until that last post. what ancients are you talking about? what is the terminology that they used? i don't even know so how can i throw it out with the bathwater? what definition of ley lines are you talking about? how is an energy "special"? what do you think is making the rocks move? what do you suggest is going to explain it if it's not science? why do you insist on lumping science (which is a method, not a belief system nor a means to any end other than knowledge) with "establishment science"/politics/lobby groups/big business and multinational business interests? science doesn't "lie". it's cumulative. it's repeatable. it's verifiable. it's independent of human passions (other than the effects of the observer in quantum experiments).

[Gunter S]

this thread went completely over your head.

it's not a fucking dissertation. it's about developing new ideas because the current establishment either has no imagination (saying that wind can move 700 pound rocks), or is being censured.

of course this triggers your pavlovian reflex and you're digging up everything you ever read off a cover of National Enquirer

[kir mokum]

so basically what you're saying is that you either can't give a straight answer or any answer at all to any of my questions.

if you want it to be supernatural and special, then fine, it's special, but just for you, OK?