would you go out with someone with a disability?

[LLaaUUrrYYn]

I would just like to say that only non 'disabled' and non 'handicap' people have issues with those words.

I have a couple family members who are disabled/handicap and both refer to themselves in that manner. It's not offensive. It's exactly what it is.

As far as dating someone with a disability, it really depends.

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

ALRIGHT, LET'S BRING 'EM KIDS!

Why does Helen Keller masturbate with one hand?
So she can moan with the other.

How do you get helen keller to keep a secret?
Break her fingers.

[Webber]

Originally Posted by LLaaUUrrYYn

I would just like to say that only non 'disabled' and non 'handicap' people have issues with those words.

I have a couple family members who are disabled/handicap and both refer to themselves in that manner. It's not offensive. It's exactly what it is.

As far as dating someone with a disability, it really depends.

qft
i'm partially deaf - and if someone asked i'd say I'm disabled, the only reason I wouldn't say I'm handicaped is b/c i can't get a little sign for my car to park closer to stores.

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Sorry, Rhia, but I'm gonna call "WALKING TO FAR INTO THE WORLD OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS"

Handicapped is bad, Retarded is bad, now we can't even say disabled? Orwell would cry.



THEY ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE.

Lack of an arm, lack of sight, lack of hearing... these are all disadvantages. People with these disabilities have to OVERCOME those disadvantages in order to reintegrate themselves into society... Helen Keller couldn't communicate with anybody until Anne Sullivan broke through to her. Blind people require use of a cane or a seeing eye dog.



They don't prove them wrong, they prove that they can exist in society despite their limitations. But that's not the same thing as not having limitations. VERY few people who are handicapped are able to integrate themselves into society without special assistance, at least at first.



And now we get right to the heart of Rhia's bias.

Again, we're not talking about a learning disability. My main problem with psychological "disorders" is that a fair number of them aren't in fact disabilities at all, just a different way of thinking or personality. ADD kids are probably some of the best resources of random information you'll ever care to meet.

HOWEVER, there's a world of difference between someone with a different behaviour from the norm, and someone who lacks a physical ability (hence the term: dis-ability) that they have to overcome in order to integrate into society.



People in wheelchairs have plenty of disadvantages without stairs. How well can they rock climb? Can they get up a mountain without assistance? How well can they manoeuvre on a beach? In a bog?



Society. Sometimes we get it wrong, I agree. And learning disabilities are probably the worst for it (Fuck, Einstein and Edison both had learning disabilities too). But to say that someone who lacks a major physical characteristic of their body (such as senses, mobility, etc.) are able to do anything that anybody can do without any assistance, even if just at the early stages, is ridiculous.

Before stairs there weren't wheelchairs anyway. How did people without legs get around back then? Ability to overcome a disability is a product of the exact same society that labels these disabilities. For animals in the wild, if you get so much as a broken leg, go find a cozy little place to curl up and die because that's about all you got left to do.

The word "disabled" or "disability" is not derogatory. It is not intended to do harm. If we start trying to censor words like that then we're just refusing to acknowledge its existence. This is ridiculous.

I get your empowering stance, and I fully support it. But that stance should not include trying to eliminate non-discriminatory language. You admitted it yourself - if we can't call it disabled, we don't have any other words for it. So why not just call a spade a spade?

Right now, the majority of the population uses the term "disabled". It has taken a long time for ppl to move out of taboo stereotypical words such as "retard" or "handicap". In time I can see the word "disability" also being phased out.

Your well aware I have a background in Special Education, and more and more I find ppl more sensitive to the words we use to describe the issues some ppl have. Its very difficult, but because of such a strong integration push, those in the "special education" world are trying harder and harder to get rid of stereotypes and labels so that ppl who are identified with certain issues are part of the rest of norm.

The Deaf community has already put a strong push on name change and "labeling":

"Society thrives on labelling. Why? I don't know. Perhaps people need to label in order to justify decisions regarding funding allocation or for justifying educational placements. Perhaps people feel more comfortable categorizing others based on their preconceived notions of who they are. This fact sheet is intended to clarify how we, as Deaf people, conceive of ourselves and so, in turn how we like to label ourselves if we are to be labelled!" Canadian Cultural Society of the Deaf - HEARING IMPAIRED? HEARING HANDICAPPED? HARD OF HEARING? DEAF?


Ebbo: You said that that being in a wheel chair is a disability because you cant go rock climbing unlike most ppl. You also said that it is Society who makes these conditions a disability.

Thats my point! If society can look beyond the fact that they are disabled and instead look at what they are actually ABLE to do, than it wouldnt be called a disability. Its all about the perception you have on it. In the end society sets the standards, and if they changed their standers and continue to move in the direction of having elevators available, brail on money, or having the traffic signs make notice... they would than be ABLE!

[azazel]

you could argue being black a is a disability towards higher income, as statistics show.

[impure]

are you trying to find a date wummy?

[Prissypants]

Hey, if they're cool, intelligent and I'm physically attracted to them then of course I'd give it a shot...

[ebbomega]

Hang on, you're taking two things out of context and mashing them together, Rhia...

Ebbo: You said that that being in a wheel chair is a disability because you cant go rock climbing unlike most ppl. You also said that it is Society who makes these conditions a disability.

No, I said that disabled people are unable to do everything regularly abled people can. Society doesn't impose this on them, but it does impose the label. Simply because that's society. If it exists, we want a word for it. If there is no word, we'll make one. And trying to suppress those words is like trying to sweep it under the carpet, no? Again, Orwell would be crying if he saw this.

I dunno. I say call a spade a spade. I'm not going to deny that a black person is a black person. But calling a black person a black person is a lot different than discriminating against a person for being black. That's where the difference lies. Carlin talks a lot about this - shouldn't we be addressing the discriminatory thoughts and implications that get tied into the words rather than the words themselves? The words are perfectly harmless without the intent to segregate them. To deny use of the word is almost denying discussion of the topic in its entirety, and this just strikes me as being ignorant.... and I though that's what we were fighting to avoid here?

[cubed]

^Dave, quit being a porch monkey.

[prozac]

This thread has become really lame. Boo!

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by prozac

This thread has become really lame. Boo!

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by cubed

^Dave, quit being a porch monkey.

I'M TAKING IT BACK, YO!

^ The only reason there dis-abled in your mind is because you are assuming they cant do what you can because their body is not designed like yours. But what you dont seem to know is that in many cases they actually can and are able... why arnt you getting this?

Compare a hummer to a civic, would you call the civic disabled because its not able to do as much as what the hummer can?

I think is great what the deaf community is beginning to preach. Sure it feels a little over politically correct. But to them they were never "disabled", they can still speak a language (sign), just not the same as the majority.

[cubed]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I think is great what the deaf community is beginning to preach. Sure it feels a little over politically correct. But to them they were never "disabled", they can still speak a language (sign), just not the same as the majority.

I'd say the deaf community is probably one of the only that you could really bring up in this situation though. They have certainly come to terms with their impedements, and a lot of them state they have 'no use' for sound.

Which I applaude.

What I don't agree with in the deaf community is the extremists chastizing those that choose to have a cochlear implant introduced. Many of the deaf community view this as the individual turning their back on what they are, I can't agree with that in the slightest.

Who are they to say what's best for the individual?

The deaf community is a special example, I certainly wouldn't call them the social norm of impeded communities.

Originally Posted by cubed

I'd say the deaf community is probably one of the only that you could really bring up in this situation though. They have certainly come to terms with their impedements, and a lot of them state they have 'no use' for sound.

Which I applaude.

What I don't agree with in the deaf community is the extremists chastizing those that choose to have a cochlear implant introduced. Many of the deaf community view this as the individual turning their back on what they are, I can't agree with that in the slightest.

Who are they to say what's best for the individual?

The deaf community is a special example, I certainly wouldn't call them the social norm of impeded communities.

The deaf community is probly one of the first to fight this. But also consider ppl who were glasses? Technicly arnt they disabled due to their eye sight? But because so many ppl wear glasses and get by in life wearing them, its not thought of a as a "disability" in our society.

Its pretty big what the deaf community is doing and im sure in the future other labled disabilities will want to changed their labels as well.

Its true that some in the deaf community are highly against hearing aids or cochlear implants. Im sure part of the reason is political, however many ppl who wear them often complain about getting head aches, annoying sounds, and very often feel better when they are turned off and prefer not wearing them. Most kids who I have worked with who have hearing issues ONLY wear them at school because they HAVE to. They much prefer not to wear them.

[cubed]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

Right now the deaf community is really the only situation to counter the disability factor. Yet what about ppl who were classes? Technicly arnt they disabled due to their eye sight? But because so many ppl wear glasses and get by in life wearing them, its not thought of a as a "disability" in our society.

Essentially that's what Dave is getting at. It's not the words to describe them that hold the power. It's the connotations that society puts on the words, and until society itself changes it's views the words are going to hold the same power regardless of what they are.

Its pretty big what the deaf community is doing and im sure in the future other labled disabilities will want to changed their labels as well.

But ultimately they're just labels. I think their energy would be much better served educating society on them rather than coming up with new words to describe them.

[Webber]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

^ The only reason there dis-abled in your mind is because you are assuming they cant do what you can because their body is not designed like yours. But what you dont seem to know is that in many cases they actually can and are able... why arnt you getting this?

Compare a hummer to a civic, would you call the civic disabled because its not able to do as much as what the hummer can?

I think is great what the deaf community is beginning to preach. Sure it feels a little over politically correct. But to them they were never "disabled", they can still speak a language (sign), just not the same as the majority.

our ability to speak/communticate isn't our disability, the fact that we can't hear is.

not being able to hear something approach you or not being able to hear someone yelling at you is a pretty big disadvantage and therefore a disability

and this is just one persons opinion but with regards to that article it's crap, I have no problem being refered to as hearing impaired - to tell the truth i prefer that term over deaf.

[starbright]

hey you guys

i am in a 6 credit class right now - medical & assistive devices / interaction design
it's got sponsorship and a competition and the potential to impact some people in a really positive way.

i am seeking a person with a disability as a co-creator...
i have been researching blindness and interested in echolocation techniques. deafness would also be an interest.
i would like to do something that utilizes the potential heightening of one or more of the uninhibited senses.

would the cute deaf girl be interested in meeting with me a maybe 4 times over the semester for research, prototyping, testing and photo docs?

can anyone recommend a place that would be appropriate for me to meet people with deafness or blindness?
hospitals or care centers i could visit groups or individuals?
support groups that would be open minded toward the project?
seems like the web is still not that friendly to blind people, making them kinda hard to find.

oh that's another direction i could take the project.
(if anyone knows some super geeks that could help me develop hardware for blind ppl to browse the web, hook me up with that too)

ok, this post is getting redic

just help me help someone else please. thx!

[cubed]

http://www.cnib.ca/

I'd say it's your best bet.

[starbright]

i have called the number on the volunteer page twice. waited on hold for an avg of 45 min, and when i finally got through i had to leave a voicemail. i seriously hope this isn't the same line people call for assistance.

i'm kinda hoping for a direct contact instead as i've spent quite a bit of time on goggle already. links to local discussion forums could be helpful too if anyone knows of (/can find) them...

[cubed]

My brother has a cousin who is hearing impaired.

But he's in his young 20's and would much rather be out chasing skirts then helping with a project.

:)

[starbright]

but maybe i could enable him 'listen' to beautiful music like he has never before through some kind of visual or tactile experience.

hello, i am not going to design something that sucks.

[azazel]

Originally Posted by starbright

but maybe i could enable him 'listen' to beautiful music like he has never before through some kind of visual or tactile experience.

hello, i am not going to design something that sucks.

i'd be careful how you take on these 'disabled' people.

one of the most patronizing things is socializing with them on the basis that you are going to 'rescue' them. i remember the look on my friends face when my mom told her the 'good news' about gene therapy and how she could regain her hearing through it. she was really uncomfortable and sad :(

she told me later that she really hates it when people give her 'good news' about the latest developments because it sounds like in the meantime she can't live her life to her full potential, but is just hanging in there.

she said it was somewhat analogous to coming out with a pill that made black people white, and trying to spread the good news ;)

okay, maybe not exactly the same, but she was still hurt.

[jenai]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

in case you missed the beat, that post wasn't supposed to be taken 100% seriously. I was making a point by using grossly exaggerated comparisons, I've already simplified it for the people who are on some laughably pretentious agenda.

really/. i have to repeat myself?

yes, this time with smileys to show you are ridiculously exaggerating. :idea:

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

^ The only reason there dis-abled in your mind is because you are assuming they cant do what you can because their body is not designed like yours. But what you dont seem to know is that in many cases they actually can and are able... why arnt you getting this?

Why do you think that I assume that they can't do what I can? I'm saying that they have to overcome obstacles in order to do so, not that it's impossible for them.

Paraplegics can rock climb, or stroll down a beach, or any of these things.... but not without assistance, either by equipment or by training themselves to be able to or by getting someone to help them. They still need to overcome their disability in order to do things that come quite naturally to non-disabled people.

Compare a hummer to a civic, would you call the civic disabled because its not able to do as much as what the hummer can?

No, I'd call the Hummer disabled because it can't go into underground parking lots. (jk)

The analogy doesn't work because you're personifying something inanimate. No, I don't call cars disabled, because they're not people. They have no norm to go from, because they're designed for whatever purpose they serve. People are not designed in this way (without getting into a religious/philisophical debate), what physical limitations we get are a matter of chance mostly - nobody has sex with the intention "I'm going to have a precious baby who will be nicer than anybody else, go to Harvard and win the nobel prize, but they'll be blind," but plenty of car manufacturers say "I'm going to build a small, light, compact, affordable, fuel efficient car that is no good for all-terrain." See the difference?

I think is great what the deaf community is beginning to preach. Sure it feels a little over politically correct. But to them they were never "disabled", they can still speak a language (sign), just not the same as the majority.

For the record, sign language is a means of communication, not an actual language. (The language they use is English - same alphabet, same words, same sentence structure, just a different means of representing them) But yeah, I see what you mean. But there are still plenty of things they can't do that other people can.... Respond to a fire alarm, for instance (one without sprinklers or flashing lights or other visual cues).