Anti-Americanism in Canada (and on internet message boards)

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Alex

-He said homosexuality is a sin, and they would be punished in hell. I don't agree, but that's clearly defined in the bible... Freedom to religion and speach....

That's cool and all, but the Bible says a lot of things that aren't relevant or pertinent to today. Honestly most of the people who cite Leviticus for condemning homosexuality should read the rest of Leviticus (and while they're at it Deuteronomy) before spouting their heads about how it's condemned, because if you want to take the Bible as literal law, there isn't a single person in the world today who follows it to the letter.

Here's an excellent example of what happens when you follow religious texts as law

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

She dropped the gauntlet. She made some weak remark about how I reminded her of a geeky bartender, so I commented on her picture. She opened herself up for it, and other people must feel the same way because I received a few 'good karma' for that remark.

Wow, for the a few hours this morning I started to believe that you could actually form decent arguments (uninformed, but dedicated none the less...)

[Alex]

Dude I didn't say he was right or I agree with him. I don't, and I'm not Christian. The point is in the Charter we have a thing called freedom of religion. Why is it such a huge issue to bend over backwards to allow minority religions freedom to believe what they believe, but condemn teachings in the majority religion(whether contradictory, hateful or not...). Laws need to apply to every group, they can't be used more aggressively on any group, regardless if they are a minority or majority.

I mean look at Quebec. Sikh's are allowed to wear their religious swords(forget their name) to school. Recently a young sikh man pulled his sword out and threatened to kill a couple of classmates. When charges were laid, the lawyer of the sikh boy and Sikh group claimed that this was just 'more of the same discriminatory and non understanding acts of Quebecers against Sikh's, and that the province of Quebec has never followed Supreme Court rulings in regards to sikhs. the lawyer claimed they would be filing a case to the CHRC(Although I haven't as of yet heard of any follow ups regarding this). How is charging a teen for THREATENING TO KILL CLASSMATES WITH A FREAKING SWORD hate speach?


not to mention no one has commented on what I brought up about the CAF and their essay contest. That is extreme hate mongering, with a massive cash prize to the winner!

[Phrenetic]

this just got boring

[Vitamin-X]

A quick Google search pulled up.
Both new and old testaments are represented.
So to conclude, Christianity does condemn Homosexuality.




Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. Below are some Bible verses that condemn homosexuality:

* Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
* Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
* Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
* I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
* I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
* Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire

that's why the gate to Heaven is a narrow gate....only few will find it!
people are going to twist the truth to fit their lifestyles.

[ebbomega]

You can cherry-pick your Bible quotes if you want to, but technically Christianity also condemns that not having tassels in all corners of your household.

[Phrenetic]

"technically we aren't even aloud to pee"

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

You can cherry-pick your Bible quotes if you want to, but technically Christianity also condemns that not having tassels in all corners of your household.

Interesting look at bible rules:
globeandmail.com: The year of living biblically

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

Dude I didn't say he was right or I agree with him. I don't, and I'm not Christian. The point is in the Charter we have a thing called freedom of religion. Why is it such a huge issue to bend over backwards to allow minority religions freedom to believe what they believe, but condemn teachings in the majority religion(whether contradictory, hateful or not...). Laws need to apply to every group, they can't be used more aggressively on any group, regardless if they are a minority or majority.

Once again, could you cite the source, or name of the church? The case that I recall involves the pastor asking people to take "god's law into their hand and punish the sinners themselves."

I would like to know more about your case so that I could properly form a counter argument.

If you can't find a source, or even a name it shouldn't be used in a debate... It's like me telling the story of my cousins friend's sisters's boyfriend.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

A quick Google search pulled up.
Both new and old testaments are represented.
So to conclude, Christianity does condemn Homosexuality.

And it also condemns you not actively stoning adulters and wearing clothing made of two different types of materials... so fuck, if you aren't going to follow all the laws, don't pick and chose which ones you do follow.

[ppcock]

page 1 best so far

[decypher]

Vitamen-X, you need to also remember that there any many translations of the original texts. Sometimes when someone translates a text into a new language the meaning is changed.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Once again, could you cite the source, or name of the church? The case that I recall involves the pastor asking people to take "god's law into their hand and punish the sinners themselves."

I would like to know more about your case so that I could properly form a counter argument.

If you can't find a source, or even a name it shouldn't be used in a debate... It's like me telling the story of my cousins friend's sisters's boyfriend.

Dude I can't remember to be honest. I'll look for it later but I have to go to work in about 10 minutes. It is very possible the article I read pertaining to the case was biased or misleading and if so I'll stand corrected.

But for now ignore this case and focus on the other points I made.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by decypher

Vitamen-X, you need to also remember that there any many translations of the original texts. Sometimes when someone translates a text into a new language the meaning is changed.

Good point. My mum went through a bit of genesis with me explaining what the Hebrew words actually meant. It's very different from what it says in English.

[miss.myra]

oh hey dudes, Christianity also promotes its followers to be kind to others, not to judge, etc.

[ppcock]

yeah and religion is bullshit :)

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

I mean look at Quebec. Sikh's are allowed to wear their religious swords(forget their name) to school. Recently a young sikh man pulled his sword out and threatened to kill a couple of classmates. When charges were laid, the lawyer of the sikh boy and Sikh group claimed that this was just 'more of the same discriminatory and non understanding acts of Quebecers against Sikh's, and that the province of Quebec has never followed Supreme Court rulings in regards to sikhs. the lawyer claimed they would be filing a case to the CHRC(Although I haven't as of yet heard of any follow ups regarding this). How is charging a teen for THREATENING TO KILL CLASSMATES WITH A FREAKING SWORD hate speach?

Seriously where are you pulling this from? I checked supreme court rulings and the only one pertaining to Sikhs, and ceremonial knives is a case that just finished it's appeal in 2006.

In it, a 12 year old accidently dropped his knife while playing at school. The school board feared this could lead to dangerous accidents and banned knives. You can read about it here:
SIKHISM

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

oh hey dudes, Christianity also promotes its followers to be kind to others, not to judge, etc.

I CAN'T FIND THAT PART OF THE BIBLE.

[kir mokum]

ok, let's end this by simply going at alex's original argument:

Any culture that defines themselves as being 'anti-another culture' is doomed to mediocrity and eventually failure. Look at the French.

i submit a short list of countries that have a culture of being 'anti-another culture':

1. all of them.

for the purpose of the argument i'll list the countries/cultures that alex's favourite neighbour has a cultural dislike for (that's at least as much as canada's cultural dislike for america):

afganistan
atheists
china
columbia
communists
cuba
iran
iraq
islam
mexico
the middle east in general (save for israel)
the french
russians
venezuela
fuck, even irish, english, germans, japanese, and africans could arguably fit on that list

and that's pretty much the extent of the average american's world knowledge.

granted all countries are doomed to "mediocrity" and all will eventually fail but i don't think that was alex's point.

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

You can cherry-pick your Bible quotes if you want to, but technically Christianity also condemns that not having tassels in all corners of your household.

lol at the tassels.
I imagine that rule is from the old testament.
As I understand it, the coming of christ freed man from
much of the obligations and punishments of the old testament.
The moral judgements are still the same.

And, being human, no one can obey the rules perfectly.
That where the concept of grace/salvation comes in.

**Decyp:

Yeah, there are a few translations out there, but I'd say they are
put together very carefully by exceedingly dedicated councils of priests. After all, this would be their life's work.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Seriously where are you pulling this from? I checked supreme court rulings and the only one pertaining to Sikhs, and ceremonial knives is a case that just finished it's appeal in 2006.

In it, a 12 year old accidently dropped his knife while playing at school. The school board feared this could lead to dangerous accidents and banned knives. You can read about it here:
SIKHISM

It might have been a Quebec Supreme Court provincial ruling, and it was just recently, like within 2 weeks that this happened(the incident with the threatening)

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

**Decyp:

Yeah, there are a few translations out there, but I'd say they are
put together very carefully by exceedingly dedicated councils of priests. After all, this would be their life's work.

there are still huge differences that can't be swept to the side. i've heard that the "virgin mother" translation would be more accurately translated to "young mother". and the church isn't exactly know for being forthright with information. they tend to focus on the end and use that to justify the means more often then not (AKA always).