President Bush (goodbye)

[Grapes]

A little like the Republicans had to throw out the "lack of experience" angle they were using against Obama after signing up a hockey mom to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency?

Way to practice what you preach, morons.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

First off, none of this happened in 2001. So there goes that. And your argument against spending millions of dollars is thrown out the window, when his party spent millions of dollars trying to investigate Clinton's sex life.

I don't keep up with american politics all that much, so I could be horribly wrong, but I thought all that stuff was fallout from the military incursion into the middle east.

Also was pretty sure that Republican Party funds came from donations, not taxes.

As for Palin, worst VP candidate ever.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Some dude

What would you have done if you were president in 2001? Do you know exactly what he knew? Maybe he just didn't want to waste millions of tax dollars and countless hours of his staff's time with inquiries just to prove one way or the other whether he "screwed the pooch" or "goofed up?"

Bush dealt with a scenario that America hasn't seen anything like since '41, and even then there was at least a clear, definite enemy they could bomb the hell out of.

It's easy being an armchair general.

No, Bush FAILED to deal with a scenario that led to a catastrophe that America hasn't seen anything like since '41. Or have you completely forgotten about Richard Gates, who basically said the reason that 9/11 happened was because of Bush's scaling down of National Security as a priority?

Here's a great Bill Clinton interview that talks about this.

[cubed]

Bubba gives him a tongue lashing.

[Some dude]

"I tried." - Clinton

What were people saying a page back about Bush trying?

Bush was not in office for even a year before sept. 11 '01, you'll never convince me that it was entirely his fault. Wasn't Best Prez Evah, but I don't believe he's the evil reptilian kitten eater or brain-dead monkey some make him out to be.

Also, that video shows what typically happens when the interviewer tries to pin someone who is twice as smart as himself.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Some dude

What would you have done if you were president in 2001? Do you know exactly what he knew? Maybe he just didn't want to waste millions of tax dollars and countless hours of his staff's time with inquiries just to prove one way or the other whether he "screwed the pooch" or "goofed up?"

Bush dealt with a scenario that America hasn't seen anything like since '41, and even then there was at least a clear, definite enemy they could bomb the hell out of.

It's easy being an armchair general.

foreign policy aside, he pretty much completely fucked up everything else he tried to do as well.

His administraion was incompetent in every conceivable way.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Some dude

"I tried." - Clinton

What were people saying a page back about Bush trying?

Bush was not in office for even a year before sept. 11 '01, you'll never convince me that it was entirely his fault. Wasn't Best Prez Evah, but I don't believe he's the evil reptilian kitten eater or brain-dead monkey some make him out to be.

Also, that video shows what typically happens when the interviewer tries to pin someone who is twice as smart as himself.

Bush didn't try to do anything until he was caught with his pants down.

And competence really needs to be taken into account here. Bush didn't exactly catch Bin Laden either, but Clinton didn't let anything like 9/11 happen. To take away the responsibility from Bush is buying into his propaganda. It happened on his watch, after he made a number of moves reducing national security. You think that's just coincidence?

I never made any claims about a reptilian - that's MarkPaul's gig, not mine. I just think Bush is incompetent and made more decisions based on ideology rather than practicality, and he paid for it.

[tiedye]

I heard all Texans eat kittens though, fwiw.

...just sayin.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

It happened on his watch, after he made a number of moves reducing national security. You think that's just coincidence?

Then he increased national security and people cried bloody murder over their lost freedoms. What do people want?

[cubed]

Sorry David, increasing national security and enforcing something like the patriot act are two very different things.

You can increase national security without treading on civil liberties.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by cubed

Sorry David, increasing national security and enforcing something like the patriot act are two very different things.

You can increase national security without treading on civil liberties.

I do not know this "David" of whom you speak.

I disagree. At one end of the spectrum you let people do whatever they want and you have no security; at the other end, you control a person's every action and have absolute security. Anything else is a trade off between freedom and security.

[cubed]

Originally Posted by Some dude

I do not know this "David" of whom you speak.

What ever you say Cochise.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Some dude

Then he increased national security and people cried bloody murder over their lost freedoms. What do people want?

Would it have hurt to only go so far as to reinstate all the projects that he dismantled? Why was it that Clinton was able to keep the public safe without imposing those kinds of draconian sanctions on personal freedom?

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Would it have hurt to only go so far as to reinstate all the projects that he dismantled? Why was it that Clinton was able to keep the public safe without imposing those kinds of draconian sanctions on personal freedom?

Oklahoma City, Unabomber, '98 embassy bombings; hardly a spotless record.

[ebbomega]

Did I say he had a spotless record? I said he had a better one.

You'll notice that the only perpetrators that didn't get caught during Clinton's tenure were the members of al-queda involved in the embassy bombings. But there wasn't ANYTHING that he let through that was to the scale of 9/11.

What bugs me most about Bush's tactics were that he actively instituted racial profiling, when 2/3 of the terrorist attacks you mentioned there were perpetrated by white people.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

What bugs me most about Bush's tactics were that he actively instituted racial profiling, when 2/3 of the terrorist attacks you mentioned there were perpetrated by white people.

73% of crazy white people happen to be white, but yeah, most terrorism is domestic. Racial profiling makes sense as long as it is based on fact, not prejudice.

Last I heard, and I stopped paying attention long ago, the FBI and CIA were as much to blame as any political policy for sept. 11.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Did I say he had a spotless record? I said he had a better one.

You'll notice that the only perpetrators that didn't get caught during Clinton's tenure were the members of al-queda involved in the embassy bombings. But there wasn't ANYTHING that he let through that was to the scale of 9/11.

no, they actually did get them.