Coalition government

[SEAN!]

The conservatives forced the oppositions hand by cutting their funding, it was a dumb move. The liberals, NDP etc really had no choice but to do this.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Alex

hey dj_soo, remember that law where individual donor contributions are CAPPED?

Richest donors argument out the window

capped or otherwise. Rich donars (regardless of how much they are limited) can straight up afford to donate money period. Many of the poorer cannot afford to do it *at all* hence why this bill works in favour of the cons.

weak, unresearched, counterpoint based on ignorant assumptions out the the window.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

The conservatives forced the oppositions hand by cutting their funding, it was a dumb move. The liberals, NDP etc really had no choice but to do this.

the cons have backpedalled and rescinded this bill, but that doesn't mean this still won't result in a no-confidence vote though...

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

the cons have backpedalled and rescinded this bill, but that doesn't mean this still won't result in a no-confidence vote though...

If the opposition backed down now, it would be an admission that the funding cut was the issue and not the economy. Obviously they can't do that.

I see a conservative majority in the near future unless this coalition proves to be the best government ever.

[b0ld]

globeandmail.com: Liberals, NDP reach tentative deal to form coalition: Sources

Originally Posted by dj_soo

this has nothing to do with blaming the recession on the harper government and everything to do with how the cons proposed to deal with it (which is pretty much do nothing and hope the market corrects itself) which is pretty contrary to suggestions from the opposition and oh... the rest of the world...

Couple that fact with the attempt to include a cut for public funding to parties into the budget which essentially harms pretty much every party except the conservatives (who generally have the richest backers giving donations) shows that the main motive for the conservatives is not the best interests of the country but rather an attempt to harm the opposition.

It's complete and utter arrogance that they would include such a measure in the budget - which is a confidence issue - essentially daring the opposition to do something about it (which the opposition is).

Remember this is the same party that called an election and then basically didn't have *any* platform other than talking shit about the opposition (unfounded, untruthful attacks at that) until the looming economic crisis forced them to scrape together a loose platform mere weeks before the election. Add onto that the fact that this government will say one thing only to do the exact opposite, I would love nothing better than to see this party go down - whether the country is ready for an election this soon however is another story...

Not sure if your referring to my post or not, although im not really commenting on this topic, but our government in general. Like you said, im so sick of parties making their "arguments" base on bad mouthing the opposing side. This useless bickering is just a big huge waste of time and tax payers money. How will anything get done if their first challenge is to get along? Grow up!

[Vitamin-X]

Was just listening to news 1130.
It seems the NDP accidentally invited a Tory to one of their conference call sessions.

Basic gist of the meeting (was recording and distributed by said Tory)
was Jack Layton bragging about how he planned to join with another
party and topple the conservative government.
This conference call took place before the vote/subsidy ban proposal was made.

Makes sense, considering this is the only way the NDP could ever
(in a million years) actually have real Federal political power.

[miss.myra]

despite the fact that the conservatives have since rescinded their move to bankupt opposition political parties (btw if the liberals tried this at any point my bet is conservative nut riders would be crying foul and blaming liberal corruption) people still need to realize that the conservatives are failing to address a serious economic crisis and attempting to create more separation in government at a time where the exact opposite is needed.

[b0ld]

Finally... This country only has to deal with harper for 1 more week.

Democracy win's!!!!

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

...people still need to realize that the conservatives are failing to address a serious economic crisis and attempting to create more separation in government at a time where the exact opposite is needed.

I fail to see how the conservatives have failed to address the economic "crisis". Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I'm far to lazy to look it up at the moment, but I thought the conservatives said during the election that they would not run a deficit. So they propose an economic strategy that doesn't require a deficit while acknowledging that things have gotten worse and that a deficit and bailout package is possible. And everyone shits themselves?

I recall reading, though I have no link, something that said the Conservatives gave a massive increase to infrastructure spending for the new budget. In my opinion, this is much better than simply throwing cash at companies who failed to prepare for the future. If we're going to spend government money making busy-work for people, I'd rather get a new highway than a bunch of cars that no one wants to buy.

[decypher]

Actually the Conservatives campaigned on a "steady-as-she-goes" policy towards the economy by saying nothing was wrong and nothing needed to be done. And they have moved away from the "no deficit" rhetoric because it's becoming quite clear that is simply not possible and because they are preparing to announce a coming deficit.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Finally... This country only has to deal with harper for 1 more week.

Democracy win's!!!!

How does Democracy win? We elected the Conservatives.

No one elected a Coalition government of NDP/Liberals/Bloc

I'd be very interested to see how many people would vote for that coalition government as a whole, not the individual party's.

[fritz]

I seem to remember a website that helped citizens strategically use their vote to counter conservatives winning in specific ridings. I think a lot of people think this way.

I don't agree with a non-elected party taking power though. They should resolve their differences for the good of the country, or hold another election with the newly formed parties.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Alex

How does Democracy win? We elected the Conservatives.

No one elected a Coalition government of NDP/Liberals/Bloc

I'd be very interested to see how many people would vote for that coalition government as a whole, not the individual party's.

i think a lot of the outrage stems from the fact that a lot of Canadians don't actually understand how our system works.

We did not elect a government - we elected an MP for our riding, these MPs form the house which then make the policies. A majority of the house must vote in favour of any motion and since the cons have a minority government, they cannot, by definition, make arbitrary decisions without gaining at least *some* approval from the opposition.

And even thought Harper only needs a handful to opposition to vote in his favour, he basically managed to piss off all 3 opposition parties simultaneously. So if the house loses confidence in the current government, it cannot function and the gov-general can do one of two things - call an election or allow a coalition to govern since the people *did* elect those MPs and if those MPs decide to band together, they then have the majority.

This is not America where winner takes all or people are voting for a party - people are supposed to be voting for an MP that best represents their community or riding in the house of commons.

[Alex]

I know how our political system works, I was pondering how many Canadians would have voted for NDP/Liberals/Bloc if they knew the 3 party's would form a coalition after only a few weeks and abandon their personal agendas.

[Alex]

BTW Quebec's are probably cheering this on. They're going to be the big winners in this outcome. Either way, the Bloc is the swing vote, so Quebec wins again.

[Sykonee]

I guess it really DIDN'T matter which way I voted after all.

If I voted Cons, my party was going to be ousted.
If I voted Libs, they'd promptly ignore my Western interests again by siding with the Bloc.
If I voted NDP, my party would be nothing more than a follower.
If I voted Green, I'd be the laughed out of my riding.

Maybe the Work Less party wasn't such a bad idea after all...

Originally Posted by Alex

I know how our political system works, I was pondering how many Canadians would have voted for NDP/Liberals/Bloc if they knew the 3 party's would form a coalition after only a few weeks and abandon their personal agendas.

I would. Just as long as the conservatives dont have a majority... and this issue is the exact reason why I dont want them to have full on power.

I am one of many who sway their vote between liberal and other parties all the time. In fact I think its safe to say the majority of Canadians are liberal thinkers, its just that many of them will move either right, left, or towards even the green/bloc party when the liberals arnt at the greatest.

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Alex

BTW Quebec's are probably cheering this on. They're going to be the big winners in this outcome. Either way, the Bloc is the swing vote, so Quebec wins again.

Actually... nothing changes in Quebec at all. And there are no advances for the Bloc. I find it interesting however... Considering at one point for a long period of time both the Bloc as well as the Conservatives used to be close. Now they are more distant then they ever were. What does this tell you?

Harper called the election because he could not come to terms on having a minority government. He doesn't give a shit about the oppositions opinion. The opposition represents the majority of canadians (because they were elected... duh). So in reality. Harper doesn't care about the opinions of the majority of Canadians that casted a vote. Not only did harper shoot himself in the foot. But he took time to perfectly aim and pull the trigger.

When you look as to why the Liberals/NDP/Bloc formed a coalition, they all have one thing in common. They are the majority and there opinions count. Some people are accusing them of a "power grab". If anything it was the conservatives that were in a "power grab" mode with only a minority government. On this side of the world, we live in a democracy.

Now the consevatives are using fear tactics towards canadians. That the coalition is a "deal with the devil". The conservatives ideology may work in a third world country but not here... What next... are they gonna start practicing voodoo???

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Now the consevatives are using fear tactics towards canadians. That the coalition is a "deal with the devil". The conservatives ideology may work in a third world country but not here... What next... are they gonna start practicing voodoo???

Or maybe we're going to end up with socialists dictating economic policy during a recession. Even worse than voodoo.

The coalition claim to represent canada, but they have fewer seats than the conservatives? The only reason this can go through is because the Bloc allow it, what are they getting in return? Quebec doesn't win here, the separatists do.

And you realize that the conservatives got most of the rural ridings west of ontario, right? Rural=3rd world now?

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Some dude

Or maybe we're going to end up with socialists dictating economic policy during a recession. Even worse than voodoo.

The coalition claim to represent canada, but they have fewer seats than the conservatives? The only reason this can go through is because the Bloc allow it, what are they getting in return? Quebec doesn't win here, the separatists do.

The sovereignist/seperatist movement at this point is almost dead. People in Quebec don't give a shit about that subject anymore. The referendum in the 1980's and 1995 only did more harm to Quebec then good. It accomplished NOTHING. The Bouchard / Parizeau era has been done and over with for years.

If you were to go back in the 90's and bring up the subject that the Bloc would join a coalition with any other forms of federal governments one would says "Never... NOT in a million years". We are now 13 years since the last referendum that failed and the sovereignist / seperatist movement FELL. The newest thing in Quebec is the ADQ which started as nothing but is gaining popularity. They are not sovereignists or seperatists. They are Nationalists. They are are a party that is sick and tired of watching both sovereignists / seperatists try and divide Quebec from the rest of Canada.

If anything, it was harper (as a federalist) that tried to stir the pot when he was first elected by recognizing Quebec as a nation within a nation, but nobody gave a shit about it because nobody in quebec cared anymore. If this comment was made in the 80's and 90's by a prime minister when the seperatist / sovereignist movement was at its peak.. We would be living in a different Canada then we are living today.

[dj_soo]

more than anything this coalition is showing that the bloc are realizing they need the rest of canada. By being a part of this coalition (unofficial or otherwise) this is one of the first steps of real national unity we've seen from the bloc in decades.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Alex

I know how our political system works, I was pondering how many Canadians would have voted for NDP/Liberals/Bloc if they knew the 3 party's would form a coalition after only a few weeks and abandon their personal agendas.

Considering all the "ANYONE BUT HARPER" rhetoric we were subjected to this election, I would guess a fair chunk of them.

[miss.myra]

PARTISAN RAGE STRIKES AGAIN!

can Harper nutriders please tell me 1 thing the Conservatives have done since October to actually address the problems with Canada's economy? Can they also tell me anything they had on their platform when they wasted 3 million dollars of taxpayers money to call an election other than 'staying the course' what a pile of shit that was, seeing as how our economy has now been officially in recession since last December.

Harper used an opportunity to actually address and take action on the economy to play partisan politics when the country needs anything but that. Ignoring Canada's REAL problems did nothing but bond the opposition together as a united force to stand up against it.

Remember, the Conservatives bonded with other political parties to vote non confidence and force canada into an election over something that in the big picture was much less of a big deal than what's happening in Canada today.

Even republicans and democrats are working together in the US to try to address these problems. Grow up, Harper.

[Grapes]

Political cartoon in today's Globe and Mail made me laugh and summed it up best: