I'm working the Election!

[gnosis]

Called the returning office last monday and had my name added to a waiting list.
Got called, yesterday.

I'll be a Deputy Returning Officer (DRO) which means I'll be the guy running a poll, giving out the ballots, and then counting them, after, with an assistant Poll Clerk.

I'll be at a downtown Helmcken polling station (not sure where, yet).

So, fnk'ers, I challenge you all to prove you're not apathetic geezers like your Yank counterparts are and get out there and VOTE!, dammit!

Remember: you don't vote, you can't bitch!

Frosty
(runs an honest poll)

[Grapes]

Experience pays!

[mapleleaf4ever]

Can't vote this time around.

Which is good because they're all douchebags and I wouldn't want to vote for either of them.

[code3call]

^
If your not gunna vote for an MLA, at least vote for the new STV electoral system!

[mapleleaf4ever]

I can't vote at all in this election as I've only been in the province for two and a little weeks.

And I would vote AGAINST STV because it'll just cock up the entire system. Not going to bother derailing this thread and fighting on the internet about it. But basically, it's a stupid idea.

[gnosis]

~sweeps away the fnk floor for a full-on throw-down!~

Frosty
(what politics _is_!)

[decypher]

I've been a clerk and an officer before. The job is so long but it feels good at the end like you did your part. Scrutineers can be really annoying watch your back lol.

[ebbomega]

Alright, time for derailment!

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

I can't vote at all in this election as I've only been in the province for two and a little weeks.

And I would vote AGAINST STV because it'll just cock up the entire system. Not going to bother derailing this thread and fighting on the internet about it. But basically, it's a stupid idea.

Yeah, because a party getting 10% of the popular vote and getting zero representation totally doesn't make it seem like it's already cocked up.

I'm not saying STV is the best system in existence but it's leaps and bounds ahead of FPTP.

Here's a great vid of John Cleese talking about why STV is a good idea:

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Alright, time for derailment!



Yeah, because a party getting 10% of the popular vote and getting zero representation totally doesn't make it seem like it's already cocked up.

I'm not saying STV is the best system in existence but it's leaps and bounds ahead of FPTP.

*rolls up sleeves*

problemo numero uno... the size of the ridings and the system would make it possible for communities to have no representation at all. one riding stretching from Quesnel to the US Border?! you can't be serious. what happens when all five candidates are from Grand Forks (just for the sake of argument). you can't expect those members to be fully versed in the issues for each part of these new mega-sized ridings. FPTP allows for each individual community to have a fair voice in parliament. STV would jeopardize this. just think, wouldn't you downtown types love it when all five candidates for the GVRD all come from Surrey?

problemo numero dos... block voting. now not wanting to sound chromatically xenophobic but face it. in Surrey/Richmond etc you're going to get minorities all voting in blocks and therefore skewing the system instead of voting towards their political beliefs.

problemo numero tres... they say that it will increase the representation of smaller parties in the legislature. when in fact in Ireland there hasn't been an independent party represented in since 1960.

problemo numero quatro... complexity. period. there was an election in Australia that had FOURTY FIVE candidates for FIVE seats. come on, really. that is hardly sensical.

problemo number quinze... due to the transferring of votes it will dilute and effectively remove the chance of ever getting a majority government. this would make getting anything accomplished in the legislature a huge challenge. can you honestly see the Liberals forming a coalition with the Greens? or the NDP and the Liberals? the Greens and the NDP? (okay that one might have a chance but the Greens are too small and weak/inexperienced to be considered by the major parties for anything but trying to hold a government in place) honestly political landscape of this province is not ready for a system like this. it's already a shitshow. no need to add another act to the circus.

this whole STV thing boils down to the inherent problem with British Columbian politics. the want and desire to change things just for the sake of it and therefore wasting taxpayers time and money all while accomplishing nothing and in a lot of cases just fucking it up even more than it was before.

basically STV is something for all of our hippie friends trying to make things "more fair" for all. no point in making it more fair when you're still voting for the same buffet of douchebags? what should be done is working on increasing the transparency of government process and encouraging a greater grassroots interest in politics thereby cultivating better candidates.

in the end you're still voting for:

[ ] Lying Bastard / Douchebags of BC Party
[ ] Granola Eater / Patchouli Alliance
[ ] Pinko Commieface / Red Banner Party of BC
[ ] Hopeless Random / Indepenent

gee, let's see... who do i put as my first choice?

and that's alllllllll i have to say about that and all i will say about that.

[ebbomega]

Thanks for the thought-out reply, Erik. I'll take contention with some of the points but good answers.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

problemo numero uno... the size of the ridings and the system would make it possible for communities to have no representation at all. one riding stretching from Quesnel to the US Border?! you can't be serious. what happens when all five candidates are from Grand Forks (just for the sake of argument). you can't expect those members to be fully versed in the issues for each part of these new mega-sized ridings. FPTP allows for each individual community to have a fair voice in parliament. STV would jeopardize this. just think, wouldn't you downtown types love it when all five candidates for the GVRD all come from Surrey?

Keep in mind however that in the current system, community representation isn't really taken into account anyways, since a lot of the party members - particularly the important ones - will just go for "guaranteed-to-vote-for-their-party" regions in FPTP. At least in this type of a system there's a bit more of an effort encouraged on the campaigner's side to actually have some visibility to their community.

problemo numero dos... block voting. now not wanting to sound chromatically xenophobic but face it. in Surrey/Richmond etc you're going to get minorities all voting in blocks and therefore skewing the system instead of voting towards their political beliefs.

FPTP doesn't really solve these problems either. Ever consider why Ujjal Dosanjh always seems to run in a predominantly Indian community?

problemo numero tres... they say that it will increase the representation of smaller parties in the legislature. when in fact in Ireland there hasn't been an independent party represented in since 1960.

That's one example out of how many countries that use STV? Most countries that use some sort of proportional representation have very prominent minority parties (and for the record, "independent party" is an oxymoron).

problemo numero quatro... complexity. period. there was an election in Australia that had FOURTY FIVE candidates for FIVE seats. come on, really. that is hardly sensical.

Yeah, we had an election like that in BC back in 2001, when the Rhinos ran. Six or seven polling options isn't uncommon to see on ballots, multiply by 5 and you're not too far off.

problemo number quinze... due to the transferring of votes it will dilute and effectively remove the chance of ever getting a majority government. this would make getting anything accomplished in the legislature a huge challenge. can you honestly see the Liberals forming a coalition with the Greens? or the NDP and the Liberals? the Greens and the NDP? (okay that one might have a chance but the Greens are too small and weak/inexperienced to be considered by the major parties for anything but trying to hold a government in place) honestly political landscape of this province is not ready for a system like this. it's already a shitshow. no need to add another act to the circus.

I honestly don't really see this as a Bad Thing though. Our governments need more checks & balances. In the current system too many people think they're just voting for a party leader, and if your party doesn't come into power then your vote has been effectively wasted, regardless of whether or not the candidate you voted for actually won in their riding.

basically STV is something for all of our hippie friends trying to make things "more fair" for all. no point in making it more fair when you're still voting for the same buffet of douchebags? what should be done is working on increasing the transparency of government process and encouraging a greater grassroots interest in politics thereby cultivating better candidates.

Let me see if I read your logic right... So because we have nothing but douchebags to vote for, we should give them more unchecked and lopsided power? How does that make any sense?

in the end you're still voting for:

[ ] Lying Bastard / Douchebags of BC Party
[ ] Granola Eater / Patchouli Alliance
[ ] Pinko Commieface / Red Banner Party of BC
[ ] Hopeless Random / Indepenent

gee, let's see... who do i put as my first choice?

Regardless, I'd rather see Lying Bastard have to take into account Hopeless Random's opinion before forcing their Lying Bastard legislation, or require Pinko Commieface's approval before being able to.

The key is that it limits the ultimate power that the government has, and keeps the key executive positions in cabinet working on maintaining our government and running as well as they can, instead of jumping onto pet projects that not even half the population wants to foot the bill for, and not getting any opposition because they got 45% of the votes and now control 70% of the government.

I really fail to see where minority governments are a problem. We've probably had the least objectionable national conservative government I think that we've seen in my lifetime, and I'm willing to blame it wholeheartedly on the fact that Harper hasn't been able to push through his more objectionable bills. I can cite examples if you want.

[miss.myra]

I'll be so glad when the election is over. Then my life will not be bombarded with annoying, slanderous, negative partisan advertising.

Does anyone have any sites that explore that whole STV thing from a neutral angle? I'm sort of undecided, but leaning one way on it.

[code3call]

Mad props for an enlightened discussion, boys!

Myra- checkout the youtube vid that ebbomega posted. Or I was reading about it on wikipedea the other day, seems pretty objective, seach 'STV' or 'BC-STV'