STV Vote - Yes OR No?

[rawb]

You will never get rid of the possibility of a minority government unless you go to a 2 party system, no matter what way you elect your representation. STV or FPTP the "problem" is still there, though I'm not really convinced that a minority government instantly means something horrible will happen. I don't think we should keep a system just because right now it's helping keep a virtual lock on 1 of 2 parties getting elected, thats not a positive to me.

Will shitty parties run? It's possible, but it's just as possible that 'crazy new levelheaded party with fresh ideas' will gain seats as well. I see more voices in our government as a positive, not a negative.

STV ain't all rainbows but FPTP is less terrific imho.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by rawb

You will never get rid of the possibility of a minority government unless you go to a 2 party system, no matter what way you elect your representation. STV or FPTP the "problem" is still there, though I'm not really convinced that a minority government instantly means something horrible will happen. I don't think we should keep a system just because right now it's helping keep a virtual lock on 1 of 2 parties getting elected, thats not a positive to me.

Will shitty parties run? It's possible, but it's just as possible that 'crazy new levelheaded party with fresh ideas' will gain seats as well. I see more voices in our government as a positive, not a negative.

STV ain't all rainbows but FPTP is less terrific imho.

I honesly don't see that as a likely outcome. Most likely is that both of he major parties fracture into smaller parties that have more intense focus on a small number of issues. Which is problematic because inorder to govern a party will have to appease the more focused (extreme) demands of multiple parties inorder to get a majority. which could impact the efficacy of government.

Jut take a look at bot of the major parties, they are both big tent parties composed of multiple grups of people with different interests. The NDP is composed of groups that want to go the third way ala tony blair's labour party, big time trade unionists, people cncerned about the environment, people concerned about social justice, communists and straight up bat shit mufuckahs who dont know shit. The liberals are the same, you have everyone from pro business types and moderates who seem to dominate because of party discipline but rest assured theres bat shit bible thumping social conservatives in that group too. with a PR system there is no party discipline and you have to apease all these groups to form a majority, when most of them are easily dominated by party discipline by the more mainstream members of te party. would you really want to see a party of probuisness get in bed with the we hate homo's and bc seperatist party inorder to form a government knowing that those two crazy parties will have legislation pass in their favour?

this isn't just about changing the way we vte it will COMPLETELY change the entire political landscape with ramifactious that go far beyond riding sizes and the political composition of the legislature primairly because you'll having so many competing interests. Also the potential downsides just don't seem worth it when comparing it to the curent system wherein every four years one fairly reasonable party completely dominates the other fairly reasonable party.

[ebbomega]

Government will still operate however. They will have to form whatever coalitions they can and will be forced to not try and push through things they know they can't. This has worked out splendidly over the last term the federal conservatives did. I think they had 10 bills in waiting that they had to let die, simply because they knew they wouldn't be able to draw cross-partisan support for it. And looking at it they were talking about stuff like copyright protection similar to the DMCA, disallowing decryption and reverse engineering... basically turning us into a corporate technocracy like the states. Most other examples of the bills they let die were of similar draconian ideals.

But yet we still operate a budget every year, and while our economy has been sagging lately a lot of that has to do with American banking practices catching up to us. Our government is still operating. And again, the only reason we had a 3-year period before an election this time around was because Harper liked how he looked in the polls, which happens in Canadian politics regardless of whether or not a government is in minority.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Government will still operate however. They will have to form whatever coalitions they can and will be forced to not try and push through things they know they can't. This has worked out splendidly over the last term the federal conservatives did. I think they had 10 bills in waiting that they had to let die, simply because they knew they wouldn't be able to draw cross-partisan support for it. And looking at it they were talking about stuff like copyright protection similar to the DMCA, disallowing decryption and reverse engineering... basically turning us into a corporate technocracy like the states. Most other examples of the bills they let die were of similar draconian ideals.

But yet we still operate a budget every year, and while our economy has been sagging lately a lot of that has to do with American banking practices catching up to us. Our government is still operating. And again, the only reason we had a 3-year period before an election this time around was because Harper liked how he looked in the polls, which happens in Canadian politics regardless of whether or not a government is in minority.

arguably we would be in better shape with a liberal majority

we're also talking about a FPTP sysem which means party discipline still prevails, STV system can't promise that, I gaurantee you if you go STV and every vote becomes a free vote you'll see alot more corruption, wastefull spending and political favours being made because to get each MP on board for a particular vote there will be need to be some serious horsetrading going on.

you want something like the american congress? thats exactly how this is likely to look like even if the NDP and Liberals disinegrate into multiple parties.