Right on, America!

[djmarkpaul]

Shorerider: I may go on but I won't. Okay, that new article hurt my brain less over all, but there was one comment that made the Lady being interviewed deserve to be slapped in the face with a 3 foot halibut and then some.

...

"The Canadian middle class has almost been taxed out of existence. "

- Well here she is bang on correct, and it's getting worse progressively when you look at what's happening to Lock Smith, Carpenter and Mechanic apprenticeships.

"Salaries are much lower than in the U.S. When we moved to the U.S., my husband almost tripled his salary. "

- A bold statement and a farcical one in some aspects. There is no grounds to compare this generally without err, maybe for her husband's market but just saying Canada VS America is a black and white comment without much thought put into it. Without reiterating this she comes off as a dumby.

"Living in Canada made me feel like a barn animal in George Orwell's "Animal Farm." My only worry is that someday the United States will resemble Canada. Sort of like one giant Seattle. That would be my nightmare. "

- OMFG. Enter halibut. Obviously she has no clue about the laws of the land in her country ie: Patriot Act, Victory Act. She has no clue about the loss of free speach and the now allocated free speach zones. No clue about the WTO protest in 1999 where police brutality and military intervention was just the tip of the iceburg in regards to the corruption behind that Orwellian fiasco.

~@#$~#@!$

Thanks for hurting my brain today mang, debunking this crIZap makes me hungry for sushi, I be going for sushi now, toodles!

[Leviathan]

I agree with g-style, a little is exagerated but can you tell me other things that are untrue?

Assuming you made 50k a year which is not all that much then you would be paying 25k for medical and the chance to go to school for 4 - 5k a year.

The simple fact is if your decently educated you can move down to the states get a good job makeing more money, paying less taxes and have the company pay for your health care..... They get benefit plans down there too you know.

She hit the nail right on the head when she was talking about quality of healthcare too. Where do you think all our best doctors go after they graduate? Why would anyone stay here and make 100k - 200k a year when they can move down to the states and make 900k or something like that. These are some of the issues our government and our population have to deal with. That is why in my last post I said we should worry about our own problems instead of bashing the US.

I know plenty of people who have moved down there to work in high tech areas and say they will never move back because their quality of living is much higher. With that said, its much harder down south for low income families to live compared to up here. ie not being elgible for benefits.


edit: they can also right off their interest on a mortgage as well. What I'm saying is there are pros and cons to both coutries its just that no one is able to admit that one country isn't necessarily better than than the other.

Originally posted by SEAN!


that woman is just an idiot...she's full of shit. i guess she just couldnt make the cut up here.

id rather be taxed 50% then have to pay 15K a year to go to university and 1k a month for blue cross health insurence.

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by Leviathan



The simple fact is if your decently educated you can move down to the states get a good job makeing more money, paying less taxes and have the company pay for your health care..... They get benefit plans down there too you know.

what happens when you retire?...did you ever think about that? there are 70 year olds working in branch plants that my mothers company owns in the states that cannot quit because they will loose their medical coverage, and they dont qualify for any government programs.

also ever heard of how HMO's work, which most companies use down there, you have to go to an HMO doctor, you have no choice, and the doctors who work for HMOs only care about the bottom line, if you need something you might not get it. atleast in canada you can switch doctors if you want.

you know what i dont really care, i wish i had links to the information i use in some of my sociology classes but basically alot of the findings are that in the united states only people make more then 150k a year are really better off then their canadian counterparts. secondly those in the middle and lower classes have net incomes that when price level is taken into affect they make 25(middle)-50(brokeass)% more then their american counterparts. Also, good luck finding a job that pays 150K a year down in the states, its about as likely as you finding one up here that pays that much.

also the brain drain isnt a new issuse, its something thats been around for a very long time, also lower taxes wont really do jack shit because alot of those people living canada are leaving for non economic reasons, like they fall in love with an american or they realize its fuckin cold up here and they decide to live where its warmer.

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Doctor Nick
Some Americans are dumb, others are not.

Some Canadians are dumb, others are not.

I remember hearing Tom Brokaw tried to come up to Canada out of backlash of seeing "Talking To Americans" in an attempt to do a "Talking To Canadians".

It didn't work. They couldn't find a single person who didn't have a rather concise understanding of American History, Geography and Politics.

I guess maybe because we spend time in School actually learning stuff about the world instead of wasting time trying to memorize 50 different state capitals.

Public Education in Canada is considered to be at a much higher level than that in America. Whether or not this translates to us being "smarter" than them psychologists haven't really had much luck in deciding. But I will say one thing: Jaywalking speaks for itself when a woman was asked how many sides to the Pentagon and she guessed just about every number between 1 and 20 save 5.

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Leviathan
She hit the nail right on the head when she was talking about quality of healthcare too. Where do you think all our best doctors go after they graduate? Why would anyone stay here and make 100k - 200k a year when they can move down to the states and make 900k or something like that. These are some of the issues our government and our population have to deal with. That is why in my last post I said we should worry about our own problems instead of bashing the US.

You'd be surprised the number of Doctors that stick around in Canada simply because of the across-the-board medicare.

It's been mostly mismanaged provincial politics that's driving Doctors out of Canada. A lot of Union stuff resulting in rather detrimental stuff to the actual medical care has been really stressing on doctors. It's resulting in sloppy care which results in missed surgeries and the like because the patient just isn't properly prepared for it. Most Doctors I know of that have left BC have basically moved to Alberta because hospitals are a lot less union-driven than they are out here. Ontario's in the same boat it seems, mostly with their GPs. But since they may not necessarily want o make the trek all the way out west, a lot of them are just hopping across the border. But I know of very few doctors that want to leave Canada because they like the idea of free medicare for everybody.

Honestly, if your job is to help people without any prejudice on any basis, but merely because they're human (Check out the Hippocratic Oath some time) it becomes a bit taxing on one's character when they have to turn people away simply because they can't afford to pay the money. You feel less like a Doctor and more like a Repo Man.

[Crazy_Cat_Lady]

my best friend is going to washington state univercity. She's getting a 4.0. She wasn't the best in highschool. She thinks that either she is super smart, or Americans are really dumb.

Anyway, i don't care about all the technicalities. Point is: I love Canada. I will never move to the states. Canada is peaceful, and that's why I love it. :smoke1:

[Leviathan]

Because I work in a "high tech" company I decided to do some of my own research, the sample set is small but completely contradicts what you have said. We have a quite a few people here who have lived and worked in the States and have said exaclty the opposite to what you have said. They have said that being in the middle working class there , they felt their medical was much better and their standard of living was higher even when making less money. Where this falls apart is for the less fortunate people. As far as the brain drain goes if you think that the only reason people are moving there is because they fall in love with an american and the climate, your sorely mistaken.

A co-workers wife is a doctor, I just asked her why doctors leave..... number 1 reason is money. Second of all its because of our broken healthcare system as Dave pointed out, which is two tiered by the way.

Besides people I work with, I have family that has moved down there for work as well and make less than a 150k a year and live much better than they did here and pay less taxes. I think after buying 401k's and writing off their mortgage interest they were paying 21% and they make close to 100k each. Here they were making closer to 60k Canadian.

If your poor in the states your in trouble, I agree but as I said before if your trained in a field with demand you can easily live a better life.

Originally posted by SEAN!


what happens when you retire?...did you ever think about that? there are 70 year olds working in branch plants that my mothers company owns in the states that cannot quit because they will loose their medical coverage, and they dont qualify for any government programs.

also ever heard of how HMO's work, which most companies use down there, you have to go to an HMO doctor, you have no choice, and the doctors who work for HMOs only care about the bottom line, if you need something you might not get it. atleast in canada you can switch doctors if you want.

you know what i dont really care, i wish i had links to the information i use in some of my sociology classes but basically alot of the findings are that in the united states only people make more then 150k a year are really better off then their canadian counterparts. secondly those in the middle and lower classes have net incomes that when price level is taken into affect they make 25(middle)-50(brokeass)% more then their american counterparts. Also, good luck finding a job that pays 150K a year down in the states, its about as likely as you finding one up here that pays that much.

also the brain drain isnt a new issuse, its something thats been around for a very long time, also lower taxes wont really do jack shit because alot of those people living canada are leaving for non economic reasons, like they fall in love with an american or they realize its fuckin cold up here and they decide to live where its warmer.

[Leviathan]

I'm starting to think that us Canadians are brainwashed just as much as our U.S. couterparts by the media.

[Veni*C]

Originally posted by Chet
you realize that you are taking the opinon af a few select americans and using that as a basis to formulate an opinion about how dumb and ignorant they are?

Maybe you should talk to some of them, I havn't met one yet that had anything negative to say about us Canadians

oh ive talked to plenty....the worst was....."do you guys have the internet in canada? like hotmail and stuff??" what i dont understand is how they think such stupid tings and were not that far away from them....mabie if we were on the other side of the world id let it slide..but thats just rediculous...mabie if they were educated about other countrys they wouldnt be so arrogant ..they only learn about themselves thats why theyre like that....(in high schoool they learn about AMERICAN HISTORY....ect ect...not about anyone else....) in high school here you learn about all different countrys in the world..even in elementary schoool i remeber learning about egypt and italy and greece.....theyre so clueless...im sure some of them arent brainwashed and do realize theres a whole world out there to discover....but its like theyre all brainwashed to think that america is the only and best thing in the world!

[Dean]

the braindrain thing about the taxes is soo true

you reach the highest tax bracket in canada at like a rediculously low income (like 60,000 a year or something stupid like that) and your paying HUGE taxes, in the states you can make like $250,000 and your paying half the taxes as the canadians do. thats why soo many people with high paying jobs would rather live in the states than in Canada

Remember when Mark Messier played on the Canucks? do you think he lived in Vancouver?
no he didnt he claimed his residence to be Birch Bay

The Canadian Taxes are definitly contributing to a "Brain Drain" whether you want to believe it or not..... smart people dont make stupid decisions about their money and only keep half of it

[Leviathan]

^Exactly!

Whoever thinks the only reason people move there for the climate and to get married better think again.

[cerah]

Originally posted by Leviathan
edit: they can also right off their interest on a mortgage as well.

FYI you can write your mortgage interest off in Canada as well so long as you're self-employed.

Tax rates in case anyone cares...

Federal tax rates for 2003 are:
16% on the first $32,183 of taxable income;
22% on the next $32,185 of taxable income;
26% on the next $40,280 of taxable income; and
29% of taxable income over $104,648

British Columbia ta rates for 2003 are:
6.05% on the first $31,653 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $31,655, +
11.7% on the next $9,377, +
13.7% on the next $15,575, +
14.7% on the amount over $88,260

[Leviathan]

I'm assuming because the government thinks the house would be used as a home office or something along those lines? What if your married and your spouse works for someone else?

Originally posted by cerah


FYI you can write your mortgage interest off in Canada as well so long as you're self-employed.

Tax rates in case anyone cares...

Federal tax rates for 2003 are:
16% on the first $32,183 of taxable income;
22% on the next $32,185 of taxable income;
26% on the next $40,280 of taxable income; and
29% of taxable income over $104,648

British Columbia ta rates for 2003 are:
6.05% on the first $31,653 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $31,655, +
11.7% on the next $9,377, +
13.7% on the next $15,575, +
14.7% on the amount over $88,260

[Pippin]

Bottem line is CANADA ROXS! There aint a better place to live, and americans are war mugering blood thirsty over populated and totally poluted. Acorss we dont want to be mistaken as a american. :kam:

[Grapes]

Bashing the U.S. is an old and tired subject. Just remember though that we have just a few economic ties with them.

It's an old subject because it's continually brought to the forefront by the US's incredibly obtuse, aggressive behavior.

And do those economic ties mean that they have a firm hold on our morals and ethics?

[pjm]

Originally posted by ~Veni_C~


thats just in seattle.....theyre pretty close to us.....go futher into the states.......but your right not all americans are like that...but alot of them are ignorant and think stupid shit like that....seattle people should be happy theyre so close to us and farther away from the dumbasses

i agree. however, i'm afraid you'll find ignorance and stupidity
everywhere on earth. even your part of the world.

[Senior]

Originally posted by Leviathan:

If your poor in the states your in trouble, I agree but as I said before if your trained in a field with demand you can easily live a better life.

My thought is that a better life is a very vague reference. I think that many things contribute to a better life, not just money. Based on my travels in the states I'd much rather make a decent living in Canada than having to live down there and make say twice as much money.

What's very interesting is how everyone here seems to have this view that because of the 2, 10 or even 1000 Americans they know or have talked to that they can make a defining statement about them. Last time I checked there was about 300,000,000 of them... 1000 random people is no where near an accurate sample group and sorry Dave but a 1000 ravers is even less accurate.

Just to add some gas to the fire I took the liberty of finding some great comments made by Americans.

http://www.pollingreport.com/canada.htm This poll found that 30% of Americans simply regard us as a state.

This American here thinks that we're a bunch of cry babies... http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/raico16.html

[Grapes]

Hey Senior.. read that second link again. Slowly.

[Leviathan]

yeah I think he missed the point on that letter :)