looks like im voting liberal

[Kelster]

i think i'm going to vote liberal, but not for legalizing pot.

[ebbomega]

What? Gonna vote for them on the economic platforms that Paul Martin had how many years as Finance Minister to implement but didn't?

Green's looking to get my vote, because I'm a Communist Bastard.

[SEAN!]

the way i see it, all three parties are gonna end up wasting our money and breaking a few promises here and there..You just gotta decide how you want your money wasted...like if you want questionable tax cuts, money ineffectively thrown at a largely useless and poorly managed millitary as well as government that hates fags, and minorities then the conservatives are your guys..if you want it wasted on some reasonably responsible(but extremely poorly administrated) social programs, as well as with a measure of fiscial responsibilty combined with a pro buisness attitude, then the liberials are the party for you. if you want to waste your vote on a party that dosnt have a snow balls chance in hell of forming a government(thank god) and whose leadership is clearly from another dimiension of reality, especially sincethey honestly think they can fullfill any of their ideas without going into another deficiet by squandering our money on ill concieved, poorly administered, and ineffective yet heart warming policy. then you should vote for the ndp(but please dont)

for me..i thinmk the liberials are my guys, im just upset that martin has to deal with all backlash from all the corruption and stupidity that occured under chrietien's watch(hey i like good ol jean, but fuck, he let some fucked up shit happen) anyway the way i see it is the beaucracy that enacts the policy that our politicians form is fucked up...so ineffective, we should contract the beaucracy out to private companies too(haha j/k) they sure as hell would do a better job...so ineffective, so much waste man..like fuck, if i was pm id fire half those fucks give them a shit load more work to do, and the ones that fucked up or were lazy, id fire those fucks too. then id give the rest raises and be all like "welcome to the private sector bitches"...but thats just me.

ok im wierdo.

if it wasnt for hating wierdos, fags minorities and druggies id probably vote conservative..i just hate fundamentalists and their inability to see past their black/white world view.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, you can't bitch about it if you don't Vote. :) Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week... Don't forget to Tip your Waitress.

[Sariel]

Very nicely said there SEAN!
As a matter of fact, I would give ya karma for laying it down straight like that, but I have to spread my karma loving around a little first. :)

[Séguin]

I think, we need a PM that ISN'T from Quebec. They shaft the rest of the country and pour all the money into Quebec to stop them from seperating. And they still fucking complain.
Also, the Liberals have been runing the country since 1993... it's time for a change.

[ebbomega]

If Quebec leaves Canada, we're next. So it's not necessarily that bad of an idea to keep the whole Quebec-focus kicking around.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

the way i see it, all three parties are gonna end up wasting our money and breaking a few promises here and there..You just gotta decide how you want your money wasted...like if you want questionable tax cuts, money ineffectively thrown at a largely useless and poorly managed millitary as well as government that hates fags, and minorities then the conservatives are your guys..if you want it wasted on some reasonably responsible(but extremely poorly administrated) social programs, as well as with a measure of fiscial responsibilty combined with a pro buisness attitude, then the liberials are the party for you. if you want to waste your vote on a party that dosnt have a snow balls chance in hell of forming a government(thank god) and whose leadership is clearly from another dimiension of reality, especially sincethey honestly think they can fullfill any of their ideas without going into another deficiet by squandering our money on ill concieved, poorly administered, and ineffective yet heart warming policy. then you should vote for the ndp(but please dont)

for me..i thinmk the liberials are my guys, im just upset that martin has to deal with all backlash from all the corruption and stupidity that occured under chrietien's watch(hey i like good ol jean, but fuck, he let some fucked up shit happen) anyway the way i see it is the beaucracy that enacts the policy that our politicians form is fucked up...so ineffective, we should contract the beaucracy out to private companies too(haha j/k) they sure as hell would do a better job...so ineffective, so much waste man..like fuck, if i was pm id fire half those fucks give them a shit load more work to do, and the ones that fucked up or were lazy, id fire those fucks too. then id give the rest raises and be all like "welcome to the private sector bitches"...but thats just me.

ok im wierdo.

if it wasnt for hating wierdos, fags minorities and druggies id probably vote conservative..i just hate fundamentalists and their inability to see past their black/white world view.

you think like i do.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

if it wasnt for hating wierdos, fags minorities and druggies id probably vote conservative..i just hate fundamentalists and their inability to see past their black/white world view.

Yeah don't forget, Stephen Harper hates abortions too.

[Hot Karl]

i r voting for whoever has the best chance to beat the conservatives in my riding. but i'd prefer liberal.

[Niko]

Hey, I'm voting NDP. I'm not opposed to tax raises, considering how it's pretty plain to see that we're gonna either have to choke down more tax or lose social services. At least the NDP is trying to paint a real budget picture. They're also currently the only party that already hasn't over-pledged a budget plan, and they refuse to go too far into platform promises beyond the healthcare/ welfare/ low-income assistance category. Unfortunately, that's gonna cost them votes. So much for hoping that truth matters in politics.

Really, as long as the Conservatives don't manage to wrest power through a minority government, I'm happy. I'm amazed that Stephen Harper and his party have half the respect they do across the country. Apparently, the upper-middle class doesn't want to shift, and is more than willing to go to the right-wing, decidedly pro-life and anti-same sex marriage party.

I was raised in a $12,000 a year household. I know what being poor feels like, and it's a fallacy that poor people can just "hunker down and work harder." When you don't have the time to improve your job situation or education due to debt and no time, and the government cuts programs that might let you get the boost you need, it's a little difficult to not look at the guy down the street who just saved $3,000 of his $60,000 a year salary due to a tax cut and just put a down payment on a land rover and not wonder how the hell it happened. Bottom line: A lot of people in the mid-lower class don't vote, because apparently they don't see how they can possibly do anything about their situation. Or they do vote for what looks good on TV: the heavy promise platforms, or the big sign candidates.

Classically, its a fact that those not in need have a hard time caring about those who are. Just look at the last 2 BC and Alberta Provincial elections. The provinces elected leaders that vast sums of the population hate, and sit through their 90% nasty platforms simply because of the 10% "we won't take your money" part.

Come on people, we live in a socialist country. At least we used to. We're more right-wing and american with our economics now than we were in the 1970s. How the hell did that happen?!

[miss.myra]

1. No, we don't live on a socialist country. We try, but we're not socialist. Go back to polisci 100. :p

2. Taxes do not need to be raised to sustain social services as they exist at present, but they should not be cut. I'd be more interested in a party that could better allocate my tax dollars towards certain things. However, what it all comes down to is the federal dollar is allocated to provincial governments that have really grossly mismanaged funding (BC is a perfect example).

3. The problem I have with the welfare/low income assistance program in Canada is that it's actually far too leniant. I do agree, there are people who need these things, but through my work with the provincial government I see way too many people who take advantage of these benefits- and they can! I'd care more about reforming skills training and job creation than I would making any more concessions to what exists at present. However, in most cases, this boils down to mismangement of what is allocated at a provincial level.

[Niko]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

1. No, we don't live on a socialist country. We try, but we're not socialist. Go back to polisci 100. :p

Lets look at how we measure up to the definition of socialism. We've slowly worked our crown corporations to almost non-existant, and as we've moved right in the last few decades we've taken hands virtually all-off enterprise. I guess we have very little in the way of actual socialist functioning except our highly-touted social assistance programs. Point to you, Myra, you are correct.

Originally Posted by miss.myra

2. Taxes do not need to be raised to sustain social services as they exist at present, but they should not be cut. I'd be more interested in a party that could better allocate my tax dollars towards certain things. However, what it all comes down to is the federal dollar is allocated to provincial governments that have really grossly mismanaged funding (BC is a perfect example).

Then we're stuck between 2 extremes with no functional solution. We have two parties wanting to lower taxes and crop social services (the conservatives to more of a degree than the liberals), and the NDP wanting to maintain social services at the _possible_ expense of having to raise taxes. Yes, 9/10ths of the budget is allocation. Look at the priorities of the parties; they're all over the board.

Originally Posted by miss.myra

3. The problem I have with the welfare/low income assistance program in Canada is that it's actually far too leniant. I do agree, there are people who need these things, but through my work with the provincial government I see way too many people who take advantage of these benefits- and they can! I'd care more about reforming skills training and job creation than I would making any more concessions to what exists at present. However, in most cases, this boils down to mismangement of what is allocated at a provincial level.

Absolutely, I've watched a lot of people abuse the welfare system. But to be specific, I'm talking more about tax exemption and government grants and credits. There are things like the child tax benefit, and lower-income family credits. These pop in and out as the government finds ways to work them in and out of the budget, further causing the bottom of the pool to flounder.


It seems pretty obvious at this point that the Liberals will be in power, whether or not in a minority against the Conservatives. I'm more concerned that this whole "tax=bad" and "money=good" mentality (that seems to be the primary focus of federal politics between the major parties) is pushing us further into the whole "American Dream" of free [exploitative] enterprise, where cutting corners to maximize money seems to be the only real focus of the government.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

1. No, we don't live on a socialist country. We try, but we're not socialist. Go back to polisci 100. :p

Hein. And russia was never Communist.

Labels are labels. We're socialist to the extreme that we have social programs subsidized by people according to how much they make (More money = more taxes). Sadly, the ones that everybody wants paid attention to seems to be getting the least amount of it.

2. Taxes do not need to be raised to sustain social services as they exist at present, but they should not be cut. I'd be more interested in a party that could better allocate my tax dollars towards certain things. However, what it all comes down to is the federal dollar is allocated to provincial governments that have really grossly mismanaged funding (BC is a perfect example).

Administration is the bane of the politician it seems. They just have no clue how to get social programs to work smoothly and easily without a shitload of redtape and beurocracy. Union members would probably get a lot more respect if they were just a lot more self-accountable. We need more engineers running the world, honestly. Sadly, from the design of public opinion, which beurocrats are a lot better at manipulating than engineers, the types most commonly elected into office (and of course, the higher the office, the more likely the type) are the people who can play the political game, which is very different from the actual Administration game.

Democracy is broken. Or at least, democracy as we know it is broken. One needs only look at the dwindling numbers of voter turnout to see how that's happening.

[Niko]

Um.. yeah. Can't say I don't agree there.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Hein. And russia was never Communist.

Labels are labels. We're socialist to the extreme that we have social programs subsidized by people according to how much they make (More money = more taxes). Sadly, the ones that everybody wants paid attention to seems to be getting the least amount of it.



Administration is the bane of the politician it seems. They just have no clue how to get social programs to work smoothly and easily without a shitload of redtape and beurocracy. Union members would probably get a lot more respect if they were just a lot more self-accountable. We need more engineers running the world, honestly. Sadly, from the design of public opinion, which beurocrats are a lot better at manipulating than engineers, the types most commonly elected into office (and of course, the higher the office, the more likely the type) are the people who can play the political game, which is very different from the actual Administration game.

Democracy is broken. Or at least, democracy as we know it is broken. One needs only look at the dwindling numbers of voter turnout to see how that's happening.

not engineers, engineers are fuckin geeks and dont know how to run shit..what we need is more buisness people in the world

[Séguin]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

If Quebec leaves Canada, we're next. So it's not necessarily that bad of an idea to keep the whole Quebec-focus kicking around.

agreed. We'll just have to build more shipping/receiving docks further up the St. Laurent.
If they seperate. They'll eventualy becoem the 52nd State. They won't survive on their own, and they'll be to proud to join back up with Canada. France won't even talk to them.

[cheebus420]

Originally Posted by Robb Peppertre

I think, we need a PM that ISN'T from Quebec. They shaft the rest of the country and pour all the money into Quebec to stop them from seperating. And they still fucking complain.
Also, the Liberals have been runing the country since 1993... it's time for a change.

Have you even read the conservative platform? Granted the liberals have been running the show, and corruptly I might ad, since forever, doesn't mean we have to pick the lesser of two evils simply for change.

The conservatives are strongly opposed to gay rights, pro-choice, and they want to privatize healthcare. Nothing I'd look for in an "open minded" society like the tolerable continent of Canada has become world famous for.

Also budget wise, the Conservatives have the most expensive platform, requiring over 80 Billion dollars. Liberals are a mere 60 to that figure.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

not engineers, engineers are fuckin geeks and dont know how to run shit..what we need is more buisness people in the world

WTF?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Business people already run the world.

Engineers know how to get things DONE. If it weren't for engineering, there would be nothing of the proportions that we have today. Power lines, bridges, boats, airplanes, all because they're built efficiently and reliably by ENGINEERS.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Business people have a few practices that just don't work in the "running the world" stage of things, but again, because they know how to play the politics they get harsh advantage over the people who actually know what they're doing. These practices are: 1) Cutting corners when they don't pull their weight (in reality, this equates to shoddy administration and cut programmes, neither of which we want in the government) and 2) Covering their own asses so they look good regardless how well they're actually implementing stuff. Again, all this leads to is a nice record on paper that the uninformed masses seem to just gobble up as statistics and base who they think should run the world on sheer theory which says nothing about a certain body's governing power.

Engineers tend to have the philosophy that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Not doing it right involves loss of time, money, will eventually bite you in the ass and may kill a few people in the process.

But, I suppose that may not make sense if all you ever see engineers for is a bunch of beer-drinking UBC kids.

PS: Geeks running the world isn't such a bad prospect. I'd rather have faith that the person running government is smarter than me than to have dolts I don't trust taking care of my wellbeing.

[SEAN!]

engineers dont know how to manage they know how to build..theres a difference between design a bridge and then actually building it.

you obviously dont have a clkue, theres a reason why buisness people run the world..its because they know what their doing(for the most part)

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by cheebus420

Have you even read the conservative platform? Granted the liberals have been running the show, and corruptly I might ad, since forever, doesn't mean we have to pick the lesser of two evils simply for change.

The conservatives are strongly opposed to gay rights, pro-choice, and they want to privatize healthcare. Nothing I'd look for in an "open minded" society like the tolerable continent of Canada has become world famous for.

Also budget wise, the Conservatives have the most expensive platform, requiring over 80 Billion dollars. Liberals are a mere 60 to that figure.

the actually figure is 28 billion your buddy gold old jack is the one ahead of the pack with 61 billion

[cheebus420]

^ I never stated the NDP platform was a cheap one.

But the liberals are asking for less money to do the same job. I'm not a fan of either the liberals or the conservatives. However I consider the Liberals the lesser of two evils... or should I say the evil of two lessers.

[Séguin]

Originally Posted by cheebus420

The conservatives are strongly opposed to gay rights, pro-choice, and they want to privatize healthcare. Nothing I'd look for in an "open minded" society like the tolerable continent of Canada has become world famous for.

Also budget wise, the Conservatives have the most expensive platform, requiring over 80 Billion dollars. Liberals are a mere 60 to that figure.

They aren't gonna stick with it anyway...