Happy September 11th!

[-ff-]

Well, its been three years since the fire, the panic, the finger pointing, and the triumph of radical ideology (take that last one as you like). Get ready for a day of sensational newscasts, of politicians exploiting emotions for electoral gain, of teary relatives of dead stockbrokers, and endless repetitions of the words 'international terror.'

I think every generation flatters itself by believing that our moment is the defining one, that the events of our lives will shake and shape the world of the future.

But have things really changed in the last three years? The environment continues to degrade around us as we myopically focus our attention on traditional notions of security (missile defense, what?) and the glitzy but untennable promise of security against terrorists. Genocides continue unabated in the forgotten corners of the world while the UN and the countries of the west dither away and debate. The poor in the worlds most prosperous countries continue their downward slide, and the poor everwhere else continue to get angrier. Aids. The list goes on. These things haven't changed. We've just found a convenient way to forget about them - a new, improved, hotter Cold War that lets a fear of a faceless enemy mask the practical and painful decisions that need to be made if we ever plan on holding our heads high as a species.

So happy September 11th all y'all. Turn off your TVs, and don't listen to anything John Kerry, George Bush, Dick Cheny, Donald Rumsfeild or any anchorperson has to say to you today.

[CodaDrummer]

This should have all been realized on the first anniversary, maybe even sooner.

I did, anyway.

[~god~]

I was reading this again just this morning:

Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky

We certainly want to reduce the level of terror, certainly not escalate it. There is one easy way to do that and therefore it is never discussed. Namely stop participating in it. That would automatically reduce the level of terror enormously. But that you can’t discuss. Well we ought to make it possible to discuss it. So that’s one easy way to reduce the level of terror.

Beyond that, we should rethink the kinds of policies, and Afghanistan is not the only one, in which we organize and train terrorist armies. That has effects. We’re seeing some of these effects now. September 11th is one. Rethink it.

Rethink the policies that are creating a reservoir of support. Exactly what the bankers, lawyers and so on are saying in places like Saudi Arabia. On the streets it’s much more bitter, as you can imagine. That’s possible. You know, those policies aren’t graven in stone.

And further more there are opportunities. It’s hard to find many rays of light in the last couple of weeks but one of them is that there is an increased openness. Lots of issues are open for discussion, even in elite circles, certainly among the general public, that were not a couple of weeks ago. That’s dramatically the case. I mean, if a newspaper like USA Today can run a very good article, a serious article, on life in the Gaza Strip…there has been a change. The things I mentioned in the Wall Street Journal…that’s change. And among the general public, I think there is much more openness and willingness to think about things that were under the rug and so on. These are opportunities and they should be used, at least by people who accept the goal of trying to reduce the level of violence and terror, including potential threats that are extremely severe and could make even September 11th pale into insignificance.

[mojo]

if i wasnt hammed id add you to my peeps to meet list

goo d post

[sidekick]

right on -ff- (simon, i think?)

i'm going to be spending this day with my cousin, because it is his 24th birthday.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Should I go flying? :D

[djmarkpaul]

I wait for the day for another attack on US soil. Maybe if we're lucky Canada will get attacked too. People deserve terrorism because they are not willing to do anything about it.

[Goat]

I wait for the day for another attack on US soil. Maybe if we're lucky Canada will get attacked too. People deserve terrorism because they are not willing to do anything about it.

^people, collectively, will NEVER work in unity so don't even start that bullshit.
No one deserves to die for someone elses cuase. It happens, but it shouldn't, like a lot of things in life.

that was the stupidest post of the week

-ff- great post!

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Goat

^people, collectively, will NEVER work in unity so don't even start that bullshit.

They are right now, just as long as they're being forced.

Originally Posted by Goat

No one deserves to die for someone elses cuase. It happens, but it shouldn't, like a lot of things in life.

You can disagree that they don't deserve it, but if it continues happening what do you have to say about that? Do people not have the power to control their own destiny? Are you giving up on free will?

Originally Posted by Goat

that was the stupidest post of the week

-ff- great post!

Translation: The truth hurts, fuck the messenger for bringing the message I didn't want to read. FF since you weren't offensive I can easily digest what you wrote and go on with my day.

Pretending to care for one day is easy, if you care READ THIS for starters.

[sidekick]

^your ignorance is just unbelievable

pull your head out of your own ass for one day and take a look around, i think you'll be surprised.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Everyone is making good points that really should be thought about by all people. I think that an event like 9/11 forces you to confront the evil that for the most part nobody wants to admit exists. You can't lose sight of what really happened that day and after it.

Yes, politics went on as normal and now, 3 years later, not a lot seems to be different and thats too bad. Yes, pretending to care for one day is easy.... but at least you care. Who are you to say that one day of caring isn't worth it?

Countless people lost their lives in the attack on the WTC and even more lost their lives trying to help them. That, in my opinion, is a great tribute to the human spirit, whether it be American, Canadian, Islamic... who cares. In times of trouble there are people who will go out of their way, risk their lives, possibly lose their lives just to help another human being and that, to me, is comforting.

I don't care if its cliched or if anyone else thinks that its a waste of time but my heart goes out to anyone who lost a loved one that day. I have this urge to just go to a local police or fire dept. and tell them thank you. Thank you for everything that you do to make the world a better place.

Mark Paul I encourage you to take your attitude and go talk to a fireman or police officer.... it'd be even better if you could talk to someone who was there and witnessed the destruction. Watch their eyes well up with tears when they tell you about pulling out bodies of innocent people who just went to work so they could pay the bills. The people who went to work and never got to say goodbye to their children or tell their wives/husbands how much they loved them. Yes, terrorism is horrible and more should be done about it but to say that its deserved is an ugly attitude. Those people never deserved it. NOBODY DESERVES IT. I realize that horrible things happen to good people everyday and nothing is done but my case still stands..... whether you as an individual step out to do something about it or not does NOT mean you deserve to die.

Anyways, I have this little pit in my gut right now and even though that little pit only shows up once in a while, it lets me know that I feel, I hurt, I love, I care and that I'm a living human being who appreciates every moment my life gives me. I'm thankful that I'm still living it and I will never forget the tragedy that went on that day or the tragedy that goes on every single day. Neither should you. Love your life, love your friends, love your family, but even more importantly love people you don't even know because we are all connected and every single life on this planet MATTERS.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

They are right now, just as long as they're being forced.



You can disagree that they don't deserve it, but if it continues happening what do you have to say about that? Do people not have the power to control their own destiny? Are you giving up on free will?



Translation: The truth hurts, fuck the messenger for bringing the message I didn't want to read. FF since you weren't offensive I can easily digest what you wrote and go on with my day.

Pretending to care for one day is easy, if you care READ THIS for starters.

i read a few of the articles from that link....


you're a moron if you buy into the full extent of that shit.

[Goat]

They are right now, just as long as they're being forced.

People from the 4 corners of the globe *figure of speech* will never come together collectively to solve issues (world hunger, pollution, poverty, etc), ESPECIALLY under force. Unless evil space aliens are involved, that is. The leading superpowers of today all have one thing on their minds. $$$.
It'd be like socialism/communism worldwide, i don't see it happening.

You can disagree that they don't deserve it,

no one deserves to have their life prematurely taken away, period.

Translation: The truth hurts, fuck the messenger for bringing the message I didn't want to read.

your truth, not mine.

[miss.myra]

I read a really excellent editorial on 9/11 in the National Post today (read it if you can!)

Are we unlearning what we were determined to learn from such an event? In my opinion, this day should be looked upon solemnly and everyone should take a moment to reflect on it for our own reasons, because to everybody that the news of this event touched it left some kind of impression on us. It's nobodys job to tell you what you should be thinking. And I don't care about all the links you have to show or all the rhetoric you have to regurgitate Markpaul, NOBODY in this world deserves harm.

But why this year is there less hubub around the anniversary? Mr. W Bush is choosing not to use this as some kind of poltical grandstand and had a moment of silence on the whitehouse lawn this morning. People seem to be talking in this city alone more about dakine getting busted than this.

Either we're unlearning or we're numbed. Look at the news this week, in Iraq America had casualty number one thousand this week, we've had the hostage ordeal and murder involving hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia (not to mention plane crashes and bombs at subway stations scarring the very same country), and the bombing of an embassy in Asia. Are we really still shocked at the hundreds and thousands of people around the world unwillingly becoming martyrs for a cause?

[~god~]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I read a really excellent editorial on 9/11 in the National Post today (read it if you can!)

was it this?
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...6-18769b51bc4f

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by ~god~

was it this?
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...6-18769b51bc4f

no, wasn't quite as sappy..

[FeelGood]

Im flying on Sept. 12th.

Wicked post, my heart goes out to all the families who lost their loved ones.
God bless this world and bless the families.

[~god~]

but most importantly, god bless america! :)

[FeelGood]

^

damn rights.

[Goat]

Either we're unlearning or we're numbed.

sadly, we're unlearning. With the recent genecide situation in Sudan , i've very little doubt an excuse for another Iraq will be far behind, In the name of "saving lives" of course. but still...
We live in troubled times.
:(
-peace-

[PHOTONIC]

So unfortunately I lost a friend today because she didn't agree with my views on 9/11... I've officially made her msn ignore list forever.

When you look at the attacks, they were brilliantly planned and executed considering what Osama had available to work with. You take out WTC, you harsh fuck up the economy, you hit the pentagon, u fuck up military intelligence, that last plane was going to bush's getaway or camp or whatever... you kill the president too, anarchy. Not to mention the fact that it cost the country hundreds of billions of dollars. It was fucking brilliant. America deserved what they got. Everyone says that what he did was wrong. America has been pushing countries around for decades. Someone finally had the balls to make a fucking stand. Obviously they can't directly declare war on the US because of the retarded insane size of the US military, so he resorted to what he could. I consider it large scale international guerilla warfare, you hit what you can without direct confrontation. Most people label it as evil terrorism though. Am I saying that what he did was right? not necessarily. Do you think he just woke up one day and decided, I'm gonna fuck over America who has done absolutely nothing bad to me? Not at all, they had it comming.

I considered 9/11 a somewhat of a good day. It may be sad that many innocent people died. But it was the day that America learned that it couldn't push around the rest of the world, that they weren't the best, that they arn't the center of the universe like they would like to believe.

Innocent people died yes and its sad, but innocent people have died since the beginning of time. Its a fact of life. Anyways, who was it that dropped 2 nuclear weapons on Japan? oh yea.... it was the yankees.

Maybe America should change its foreign policies. Maybe America should keep their troops in America, not go galavanting off to save the day where they shouldn't be in the first place. Maybe America should stop treating half the world like shit and expect countries to suck their dick to stay on their good side. If it takes more attacks on American soil to get these points accoss so be it. I would consider it a step towards a better tomorrow where America respects the rest of the world instead of trying to force the ideas and rules upon us all.

Am I a cold-hearted asshole? I don't think so. Am I going to hell? I doubt it even exists. Am I going to get bad karma for this? Most likely... I know some people on here lost friends or family 3 years ago, and I feel sorry for you. All I'm saying is that America is to blame for what happened. If they didn't push around the little guys, this wouldn't have happened.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by PHOTONIC

So unfortunately I lost a friend today because she didn't agree with my views on 9/11... I've officially made her msn ignore list forever.

When you look at the attacks, they were brilliantly planned and executed considering what Osama had available to work with. You take out WTC, you harsh fuck up the economy, you hit the pentagon, u fuck up military intelligence, that last plane was going to bush's getaway or camp or whatever... you kill the president too, anarchy. Not to mention the fact that it cost the country hundreds of billions of dollars. It was fucking brilliant. America deserved what they got. Everyone says that what he did was wrong. America has been pushing countries around for decades. Someone finally had the balls to make a fucking stand. Obviously they can't directly declare war on the US because of the retarded insane size of the US military, so he resorted to what he could. I consider it large scale international guerilla warfare, you hit what you can without direct confrontation. Most people label it as evil terrorism though. Am I saying that what he did was right? not necessarily. Do you think he just woke up one day and decided, I'm gonna fuck over America who has done absolutely nothing bad to me? Not at all, they had it comming.

I considered 9/11 a somewhat of a good day. It may be sad that many innocent people died. But it was the day that America learned that it couldn't push around the rest of the world, that they weren't the best, that they arn't the center of the universe like they would like to believe.

Innocent people died yes and its sad, but innocent people have died since the beginning of time. Its a fact of life. Anyways, who was it that dropped 2 nuclear weapons on Japan? oh yea.... it was the yankees.

Maybe America should change its foreign policies. Maybe America should keep their troops in America, not go galavanting off to save the day where they shouldn't be in the first place. Maybe America should stop treating half the world like shit and expect countries to suck their dick to stay on their good side. If it takes more attacks on American soil to get these points accoss so be it. I would consider it a step towards a better tomorrow where America respects the rest of the world instead of trying to force the ideas and rules upon us all.

Am I a cold-hearted asshole? I don't think so. Am I going to hell? I doubt it even exists. Am I going to get bad karma for this? Most likely... I know some people on here lost friends or family 3 years ago, and I feel sorry for you. All I'm saying is that America is to blame for what happened. If they didn't push around the little guys, this wouldn't have happened.

yeah they couldve learned somehting but americans arent pussy like you, their reactionary assholes. terrorism directed against americans will only further solidify their resolve to kill anyone they think is a threat. Bush would not be as popular as he is now if it wasnt for 9/11 and its not just because americans are scared its because they are angry, they'll never question their foreign policy now.

Osama didnt attack america cuz he felt they were bullies and was pissed off over their foreign policy he did it because he's a religious zealot and a bully who hates all secular and non-islamic countries. dont be so pious in convincing yourself that canada isnt a target as well.

The japanese thought they could change american foreign policy when they attacked pearl harbour, they were right, they turned a isolationist "sleeping giant." into a force that obliterated their entire country and then controlled much of the world up until this point.

americans can't be bullied and they will only change their foreign policy when it serves their best interests.

p.s i dont think you're a cold hearted asshole, no, you're just a clueless idiot.

[PHOTONIC]

americans arnt bullies? they just waltzed into iraq cuz bush felt like declaring war since he "knew" they had weapons of mass distruction, which a year n a half later still havnt turned up at all, not even the slightest traces of em. America tries to sneak around NAFTA and put illegal tarrifs on out lumber and promises to eliminate us from NAFTA if we legalize marijuana. The stopped importing french wine which had harsh affects on french exports becuase France wouldnt help Bush's illegal war against Iraq? Lets also insult them by trying to rename french fries "freedom fries". They are bullies and they do throw their weight around.

come to think about it... clinton did a decent job for 8 years.. maybe bush is just the bully?

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by PHOTONIC

americans arnt bullies? they just waltzed into iraq cuz bush felt like declaring war since he "knew" they had weapons of mass distruction, which a year n a half later still havnt turned up at all, not even the slightest traces of em. America tries to sneak around NAFTA and put illegal tarrifs on out lumber and promises to eliminate us from NAFTA if we legalize marijuana. The stopped importing french wine which had harsh affects on french exports becuase France wouldnt help Bush's illegal war against Iraq? Lets also insult them by trying to rename french fries "freedom fries". They are bullies and they do throw their weight around.

come to think about it... clinton did a decent job for 8 years.. maybe bush is just the bully?

i never said americans arent bullies i said they cant be bullied

[PHOTONIC]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i never said americans arent bullies i said they cant be bullied

oops well its 2:30 n ive been drinkin and its hard to pay attention.. appologies haha