Hip-Hop vs. The Law

[axion]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

You know what the real difference between the two is? Money. End of story.

not quite. there are tons of things other than money that set apart "underground" artists from "mainstream" artists. everything from the artists upbringing, lyrical style to the amount of drive & determination the artist has.

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

Goddamn them selling out to the man.... god forbid they have a family to feed or something.

most families don't require 20 million dollars to feed.

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

The one thing is that they'll still make music. More often than not its the same music you loved by them when they were still minor label underground artists.

not at all... i dont know how you could possibly compare the two. most "underground" artists have a completely unique sound, more times than not this is exactly a good thing though.

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

Underground is no more than the farm team for the big leagues.

not really, there are tons of critically acclaimed underground artists that are more than happy to stay "underground". i can think of a 5 very popular ones off the top of my head.

dont get me wrong here. im not rooting for the underground or anything, i just think that there are quite a few weak points in your argument. honestly i dont understand how this issue gets so ridiculously over-analyzed and argued about, but at the same time if you are gonna throw in your two cents, make sure you know what you are talking about.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by ballerz1

Why is it that every successful hip-hop artist needs to project themselves as being criminals, even when they grew up in suburbia? Take Ja Rule for example. He was raised in a suburban community but then started projecting himself as a hard-core gangster. Then a song came out (“Hail Mary”) by 50 Cent, Eminem, and Busty Rhymes that dissed him for the fact, and his sales started to slide. It’s also interesting to see how the law enforcement deals with these young artists, such as the NYPD setting up a special “Hip-Hop Task Force” that monitors their every move.



I thought to bring up these topics because I just saw a preview for an upcoming hip-hop special on Court TV being produced by Russell Simmons.

It’s called “Hip Hop Justice” (I think), and airs Wednesday (10/06) @ 10pm. It looks really interesting and hopefully will help put hip-hop in a more positive light.



Peace,



Trevor

Most rappers are criminals to begin with and are just capitalizing on this yarn. Thugged-out NBA players too, about 42 percent of them have a criminal record. It be a black people's thang.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug19.html

[wundergirl]

mainstream vs. underground aside,this thread originated in the question of images portrayed by artists, it's gotten off topic.

it's not like gift of gab isn't specifically aiming his "non-threatening backpacker rap" (as miss.myra has coined it :)) at a certain demographic, it's just that his decided image has yet to saturate the media.

it's all a cycle, thugs were underground once, and groups like B.E.P. are bringing their tunes to the masses. what'll we fight about when pop goes underground and only the cool kids listen to britney?

[Senior]

Originally Posted by thumper

Most rappers are criminals to begin with and are just capitalizing on this yarn. Thugged-out NBA players too, about 42 percent of them have a criminal record. It be a black people's thang.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug19.html

You give people from Surrey a bad name.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by Senior

You give people from Surrey a bad name.

mmm.. not really when you think about it

[Senior]

Originally Posted by thumper

Most rappers are criminals to begin with and are just capitalizing on this yarn. Thugged-out NBA players too, about 42 percent of them have a criminal record. It be a black people's thang.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug19.html

Being a criminal is a "black persons thang?"

With that sort of attitude you might not make to many friends around here but rest assured there are people out there that see it your way...

[miss.myra]

Oh don't mind thumper, they're one of those 'well if there's a percent sign behind it, it must be a scientifically accurate statistic' and 'oh well if its posted on the internet, it has to be true' (cause you know, it's so hard to make a webpage, and there are tons of watchdogs that make sure that all websites contain accurate information about everything)

They're just a troll. They've just been holding onto a plethora of facts they know will piss people off for awhile and they just need to let it out. If you ignore them, maybe they'll actually find a legitimate hobby!

[thumper]

But I thought we're talking about rap "Ima kiieww you" music here? Not hard to see the connection between criminality and their lyrics. And even if the Washington Post is jewish owned you gotta admit it tends to cover non-political things quite objectively.

Why is everyone ganging up on me :226:

[decypher]

Yes as myra say its retarded to drop names strictly for stupid purposes. This underground/mainstream discussion has happened with every form of popular music style. I completely judge on talent, music styles, and message, even if the artist/s are completely mainstream, i'll still love them just because i love their music. Thing is, nowadays if a popular artist trys to do something political they are coined as jumping on a bandwagon as well. So what are we supposed to believe here? make your own defination of whats good music, and if people dont agree, maybe one day they will and you'll be able to promote your style for a living. I wouldn't have any complaints if that happened to me. Doesen't mean i sold out. It's really what you do with your spotlight, your influence and money once your up there, that really makes or breaks the person. Theirs tonnes of artists who do good things with their money that people would consider "mainstream"

I used to hate the punks at my high school. I had listened to a wide variety of old and new punk for years but never felt the need to openly dress like a crazed punk to "revolt against the system" (lol). As soon as i started wearing shirts of my favourite bands, i had punks telling me i couldn't wear that shirt cuz it was their favourite band, and up to that point they had no clue i had been a big fan. So what is this bullshit? Fan's of supposed "open minded" and "underground" music (which punk wasen't at the time by their defination) were dissing me for liking it? Like i wasen't allowed to take their precious bands away from them and put it into my CD player. So i told that kid to fuck off and begin to realize the hypocrisy of this underground&mainstream argument. I blasted sepultura in the headphones pissing everyone off, listening to punk which everyone thought was "hardcore" back then. I got ridiculed for a style of music i listened to. But at the same time i wasen't trying to be confrontational, thought i was better then them or the usual elitist attitudes. I just wanted to listen to the music i liked and be left alone. Then all of a sudden 4 years later, EVERYONE loves metal and punk; all the people who said shit to me especially, talk about frustrating.

I think people should shutup and make up their minds, and PRACTICE what they PREACH. Underground or mainstream? who gives a fuck. Read up on the artist, what they do, the music they make, lyrics etc. and decide if you like it or not. Don't hold yourself into constricting borders, it only restricts your musical talent.

Everyone has their reason for listening to music, whether its just catchy music in the club, or picking it apart music. let it rest.

[Crazy Dave]

most main stream hip-hop is not hip-hop... it's rap, it always has been it always will be.

[Hot Karl]

who cares.

it's always people on the age old quest to inform other people that the music they listen to is so cool/underground/hip/new.

if you listen to underground, that's fine, but i get sick of every song being a fucking preach fest.

if you listen to mainstream, that's fine, but i get sick of every song being a stereotype fest.

so it's all about finding a happy medium. or not thinking so deeply about your music and getting so militant about it.

you love g-unit? that's cool. you love talib? that's cool. just don't act like either is the fucking messiah.

[Crazy Dave]

Dude it's no different then saying Britney Spears is a no talent hack, that she has no artistic cred. Same thing with MC-Protool, aka name a main stream rapper/hip-hop artist(with the exeption of a few).

To make matters worse some guys are using the term hip-hop to describe there music. That makes about as much sense as labeling Jungle tracks techno, Or trance music as hardcore. Call it what it is. Don't call it hip-hop and market your products from a some one else image.

One more thing to think about. Take P-didy, he has talent... but it's not in his music, it's in his marketing skill. So what's wrong with some one making the separation of the two? What's wrong with some one getting pissed when integrity of a scene or standard is eroded? What's wrong with hatting what is shoved in your face. what's wrong with hating things that are fake.

There's nothing wrong with it,,, so fuck main stream Hip-Hop and what it stands for. FUCK IT REAL HARD!

[Hot Karl]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dave

What's wrong with hatting what is shoved in your face. what's wrong with hating things that are fake.

nothing's wrong with hating, except it gets old fast, especially when the hater has nothing new or insightful to add. it gets kinda old and repetitive, much like the genre everyone's hating on.

it seems like it's not people who love hip hop, it's people who hate the mainstream and everything associated with it.

and for me anyways, it just boils down to the fact sometimes i want music that's fun, be it ludicris rapping about midgets or lil jon doing his thing.

[Crazy Dave]

Granted,,, but then again do you get pissed off with the trance haters also?

hehehheee meh.

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

nothing's wrong with hating, except it gets old fast, especially when the hater has nothing new or insightful to add. it gets kinda old and repetitive, much like the genre everyone's hating on.

it seems like it's not people who love hip hop, it's people who hate the mainstream and everything associated with it.

and for me anyways, it just boils down to the fact sometimes i want music that's fun, be it ludicris rapping about midgets or lil jon doing his thing.