Pope given last rites

[wum]

Originally Posted by dabbler

and?

lowest HIV infection rate = PER CAPITA. meaning they have more than everyone else, but because of the high population numbers....

that and senegal is only one country

uh. let's just say what they're doing is working.

edit: my point is that they're taking a religious approach to sex, as opposed to the other African countries, which you said was harmful.

[dabbler]

oops, i was wrong...

canada
Population: 32,507,874 (July 2004 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS: 56,000 (2003 est.)


senegal
Population: 10,852,147 (July 2004 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS: 44,000 (2003 est.)

that would put canada as the lowest per capita. (of the two)

i still don't see your point.

[diva]

Originally Posted by wum

how'd he get a urinary tract infection?

old people get them all the time
it's not an std
it might have been caused if they inserted a urinary catheter during one of his hospitalizations

[cinist]

sylvia brown assures us that the next pope will be black

[lithe]

popopopopope!

i'm not a religious person in the slightest but found his mass/prayer/blessing profoundly evocative. he radiates a tranquility and spirituality that is unique and that is admirable, regardless of ideological differences.

[DJ Ponz]

Originally Posted by cinist

sylvia brown assures us that the next pope will be black

I've heard that too.

Sorry to change the subject, but I want to talk about why so many young people - particularly westerners - have this aversion to christianity in particular and religion in general. All too often, I think, we don't see the really really good things christianity is doing on a daily basis - feeding the hungry, providing shelter for the destitute, giving good, moral (albeit culturally specific) guidance to people in need. And it's not just Christianity, it's all religions. But somehow, organized religion has this bad name - particularly amongst youth. I'm the first to call christianity's ill-teachings - some of them make my eyes roll deeply - but there is, in my opinion, far more good that comes of them than bad. Christians mean well - they do! - but as with any institution, there are fuck ups (molesting little boys, corruption). On a daily basis - and as a whole - these people are striving to make the world a better place - and succeed in so many ways.

Now somewhere along the line, it became cool (perhaps not the best word) to be anti-organized religion, particularly anti-christian. I have a strong feeling these sentiments are based in ignorance of what religion is and stands for - or even what they try to do, but also they are the result an adolecent rebeliousness against all-that-is-normal and part of the "system". I think this is particularly useful in thinking about why youth today shun chritianity in droves. It seems that everyone poo-poos Christ, but welcomes and is willing to explore Budda, the Dali-Lama or even Allah. People long to differentiate themselves and thus shun the obvious, banal and recognizable Christianity in favour of more exotic - at least by our standards - religions and forms of organized spirituality.

If nothing else, religion is like the school system - itself a sham! No, but seriously, it is a mode of socialization of the masses, and without it, moral and ethical fibers in society would fall apart. Religions are a part of our very social fabric, so I think it's hugely important to explore them in depth - if not for spiritual reasons, then for personal ones.

*Don't fucking tell me religions are the root of human conflict, we've already established that they're not. See here

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

*Don't fucking tell me religions are the root of human conflict, we've already established that they're not. See here

Many people use religion as an excuse to be irresponsible.

Faith can be used to excuse/support any action (eg. crusades, sacrifices), but especially indifference. Why should we do anything now if God is going to sort out good and bad later? Instead of acting to resolve current problems, many people resort to prayer, faith, etc. (ie. indifference). Some young ppl are infuriated by this.

[diva]

I think the pope has lead quite an amazing life.
From growing up as a catholic in a communist country to living through the second world war. Fuck, the man was even shot 15 years ago!

As someone was raised roman catholic, the pope's impending death signifies an end of someone who represented piety in it's purest form.

The next pope will probably be from central america, south america, or africa because these areas have a higher percentage of practicing catholics.

I think 120 cardinals will convene in rome to vote on this matter after he dies.

To the person who said that they have to go pray about it until everyone agrees on one name. lol. That's not true. The process of selecting the new pope will be a tad more practical than that.

[automatic]

"JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA – Tuesday President Bush will step off Air Force One into the dry, summer heat of Senegal, one of Africa's oldest democracies and the country with the lowest HIV-infection rate on the continent."

Senegal was one of the first African countries to aggressively combat the epidemic through a variety of actions. Behavior-modification campaigns were launched encouraging youths to delay their first sexual experiences or to use condoms.

Religious leaders from the country's two main faiths, Christianity and Islam, were encouraged to help educate the public. And prostitutes were targeted with safe-sex campaigns and frequently tested for AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.

jay, you're way off, it IS the rate per captia that's important.....put it this way, if every single person in canada (100% of the population) had aids, but only 5% of the population of china had aids, they'd STILL have more people infected than us, but who would you say had done a better job fighting the spread of the disease?

wum, you're getting christianity mixed up with catholicism here, and you've actually PROVED jay's original argument that the pope's decree's regarding not being able to use contraception killing thousands. bottom line is that the pope wouldn't have supported the safe-sex campaigns in senegal that targeted youth and prostitutes because they promoted condom use alongside abstinenece....

then you also have to look at a lot of other factors relating to the spread of aids in africa. senegal, depsite having more than half of it's population below the poverty line has been a stable multi-party democracy for years, and has some solid communication and transportation infrastructure in place. despite some simmering guerilla movements it hasn't been touched be the kind of long-term out of control civil strife that has devestated much of africa. it's pretty hard to run a successful HIV campaign in a country where half the people are running around with machetes cutting the hands off of the other half.

finally, before you talk about this as a triumph for christianity, be aware that when it says senegal's "two main faiths, Christianity and Islam", the cia world factbook has the split 94% islam, 5% christian, 1% other.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

as soon as the current pope dies....WE`RE ALL FUCKED!

[dabbler]

ya i know it's the per capita thing that's important, i was only wrong when i said that senegal must have a lower pre capita rate than anyone else. then i discovered that canada's is lower, and i'm sure other countries are too. basically all i did ws prove that the line "lowest HIV infection rate in the world" is totally bullshit.

[wum]

Originally Posted by dabbler

ya i know it's the per capita thing that's important, i was only wrong when i said that senegal must have a lower pre capita rate than anyone else. then i discovered that canada's is lower, and i'm sure other countries are too. basically all i did ws prove that the line "lowest HIV infection rate in the world" is totally bullshit.

it only stated lowest rate in Africa

[dabbler]

fair enough, i miss-read it.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

the Pope is the head of a religion, not a politician trying to appease his constituents you tool.

There's a difference?

[sNyx]

Originally Posted by wum

the Pope is the head of a religion, not a politician trying to appease his constituents you tool.

Originally Posted by ebbomega

There's a difference?

one bases his on personal truth, one bases his on personal growth

[wum]

Originally Posted by bl0nde

exactly.
i went to the vatican last year and saw the pope.. i found it very interesting.

i heard the vatican is one of the most amazing things ever

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by wum

i heard the vatican is one of the most amazing things ever

Gold! GOLD! GOLD!

It's so funny in the Sistine Chapel b/c it's supposed to be completely silent--you're not even allowed to whisper. But, there are a couple hundred ppl in that room, and they all wanna talk about the pretty pictures on the walls. So, the gentle rumble of voices gradually gets louder and louder until it's roaring. Then, there's a guy standing there whose sole responsibility is to "SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" everyone every 3 or 4 minutes. He's really loud and it scares most of the tourists who quickly look around all embarassed as the whole place instantly becomes perfectly quiet. So, the cycle continues . . .

[Draven GD]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

I've heard that too.

Sorry to change the subject, but I want to talk about why so many young people - particularly westerners - have this aversion to christianity in particular and religion in general. All too often, I think, we don't see the really really good things christianity is doing on a daily basis - feeding the hungry, providing shelter for the destitute, giving good, moral (albeit culturally specific) guidance to people in need. And it's not just Christianity, it's all religions. But somehow, organized religion has this bad name - particularly amongst youth. I'm the first to call christianity's ill-teachings - some of them make my eyes roll deeply - but there is, in my opinion, far more good that comes of them than bad. Christians mean well - they do! - but as with any institution, there are fuck ups (molesting little boys, corruption). On a daily basis - and as a whole - these people are striving to make the world a better place - and succeed in so many ways.

Now somewhere along the line, it became cool (perhaps not the best word) to be anti-organized religion, particularly anti-christian. I have a strong feeling these sentiments are based in ignorance of what religion is and stands for - or even what they try to do, but also they are the result an adolecent rebeliousness against all-that-is-normal and part of the "system". I think this is particularly useful in thinking about why youth today shun chritianity in droves. It seems that everyone poo-poos Christ, but welcomes and is willing to explore Budda, the Dali-Lama or even Allah. People long to differentiate themselves and thus shun the obvious, banal and recognizable Christianity in favour of more exotic - at least by our standards - religions and forms of organized spirituality.

If nothing else, religion is like the school system - itself a sham! No, but seriously, it is a mode of socialization of the masses, and without it, moral and ethical fibers in society would fall apart. Religions are a part of our very social fabric, so I think it's hugely important to explore them in depth - if not for spiritual reasons, then for personal ones.

*Don't fucking tell me religions are the root of human conflict, we've already established that they're not. See here

Great post. i agree that religions are doing a good part in maintaining society as we know it, but i feel that this is not our full potential. excelent point on how the youth feel its kool to be anti-organized religion. i even agree that generaly christians meen well. though its hard to ignore how many things are done in Gods name, or for Gods will....

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by sNyx™

one bases his on personal truth, one bases his on personal growth

I repeat:

There's a difference?

Personal truth IS Personal growth.