My banter with the Christian Heritage Party

[pbreak]

For some unknown reason I was recently on the CHP website and decided to drop them a line... their response and my original email are below - albeit now that I read my original email I obvioulsy didn't take much time to write it as my points are quite mundain and seem like they were written by an angry teenager, and he even came back with some fairly decent quotes (I'm not sure if he actually did some research just to answer my email - that would make me feel important though). Of course most of his talk is skewed greatly towards his side with no real evidence backing any of his claims, in fact he even contradicts himself by referencing the C.S. Lewis "common features of many legal-ethical systems" while still insisting on a purely biblical legal system - but the one paragraph that really got me is in bold... this paragraph can also be taken as "the word of God is law". So what do ya'll think about good ole' fundamentalism?

From: Ron Gray <[email protected]>
>To: Paco De la Guapa <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Christian and western civilization
>Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:31:44 -0700
>
>Dear Paco De la Guapa,
>
>Thanks for writing. I appreciate your comments, and I accept the
>criticism that my comments tend to ignore the contributions of other
> cultures to the growth of what we now call western civilization. I
> should perhaps have said that Christianity was the primary root of
> western civilization. Of course, you have made an assumption in
>leaping to the conclusion that I regard all other cultural-legal
>systems as "heathen"; I'm not dismissive of them. A better model
>for both os us to follow would be the chart of "The Tao" in the
>appendix to C.S. Lewis' book The Abolition of Man. In that chart,
>Lewis shows the common features of many legal-ethical systems.
>
>The Greco-Roman system, however, made only a marginal contribution
>to western civilization. The republican model of government that
>preceded the Caesars provides primarily a warning to the modern
>West: as Cicero said,democracy will only work until the people
>discover that they can vote themselves a share of other peoples'
>wealth; we see that today. The Athenian model of "democracy"
>scarcely deserve the name: Athens was a slave state, and only 1/3
>of the adults had a vote; and in any case, their democracy only
>lasted about 45 years, and then they clamoured for a dictator to
>restore order. They murdered Socrates for asking embarrassing
>questions.
>
>The diffusion of the Judeo-Christian understanding of one Creator
>God did much more for the world than all the other systems
>combined. Science as we understand it grew out of the understanding
>that the creation reflects the orderliness of the Creator, and that
>it is legitimate to search our His mysteries; democracy, as we
>understand it, is rooted in Magna Carta and its principle that
>there is a higher law which even the Crown must obey -- and it is
>found in the Bible.
>
>We're in danger of losing both science and democracy as we move away
> from a Judeo-Christian worldview and deeper into the irrationality
>of postmodernism. That's why it's important for Canada to restore
>respect for our heritage of Biblical principles as the foundation
>of good government.
>
>Thanks again for writing
>
>Ron Gray
>National leader
>Christian Heritage Party of Canada
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paco De la Guapa" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:50 PM
>Subject: hey there
>
>
>>I'm not going to send any hatemail your way or anything like that
>>like you
>>probably usually get a lot of that anyway, but just a little tip
>>for you
>>guys - I was perusing your website and found this little goodie:
>>
>>"Therefore, we saw a great need for a national political party that
>> would
>>encourage Christians to put forward the Biblical perspectives upon
>>which
>>Canada - and indeed, western civilization itself - was founded."
>>
>>Although I must agree that the vast majority of people settling
>>North
>>Americans were indeed Christian, you seem to think that
>>Christianity is
>>required to create laws based on ethics and morality, and that
>>other laws
>>(which have developed in other countries independantly and are
>>strikingly
>>similar to our own) are simply heathen laws. Of course the other
>>biggy you
>>seem to overlook is that Christianity is NOT the foundation of
>>western
>>civilization... one might consider the social/legal/ethical systems
>> set up
>>by the polytheist Greeks/Romans/Persians/etc. to be of just a
>>little more
>>importance since Christianity was actually built upon those.
>>
>>
>>
>
>======================================= =================================
>=======
>The Christian Heritage Party is Canada's only pro-life, pro-family
>federal
>political party, and the only one that endorses the 'supremacy of
>God' clause in the Canadian Constitution.
>
>To learn more, call toll-free 1-888-VOTE CHP (1-888-868-3247) or
>visit
>our web site at www.chp.ca

[rawb]

props for you for interacting with someone you intensely disagree with in a basicly civil, intelligent and inquisitive fashion.

i wish more people would do this!

[sidekick]

^you should see him yell at hippies!

[rawb]

you can't reason with patchouli

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

^you should see him yell at hippies!

Yeah, all civil niceties are out the window when Bryan has to deal with hippies. Christians sure, but hippies, that's just too much!!

[sidekick]

i think it's the bongo drums.

if the christians had drums he would yell at them too.

[cubed]

I'm leaning more towards the not showering and dreads.

[sidekick]

but i know he really hates the drums, too.

believe me, i've had to tolerate many a rant about hippies and drums from him.

[wum]

looks like you were

[SEAN!]

Our form of science is rooted in the ideals of rationality and reason which stem from the philosphies of the enlightenment, philosophies which were essentially a rejection of religious doctrine.

was it not the catholic church who persecuted galileo for his own findings regarding the nature of out solar system?

[wum]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

Our form of science is rooted in the ideals of rationality and reason which stem from the philosphies of the enlightenment, philosophies which were essentially a rejection of religious doctrine.

was it not the catholic church who persecuted galileo for his own findings regarding the nature of out solar system?

I think the argument goes that since God is about "orderliness", we have to imagine the world according to systems or the various "ologies". This paradigm rejects pixies or demons causing weather, or other phenomena.

and Catholics are another story altogether... oi

[cubed]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

but i know he really hates the drums, too.

believe me, i've had to tolerate many a rant about hippies and drums from him.

I lived on the drive for 2 years, my hate for hippies knows no bounds.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by cubed

I lived on the drive for 2 years, my hate for hippies knows no bounds.

i don't hate hippies.

but i share bryan's hate of their drum playing.

just because you're a hippy does not automatically make you have rhythm!@#$

[Rhianna]

Originally Posted by cubed

I lived on the drive for 2 years, my hate for hippies knows no bounds.

Do you see a lot of them w/ out shoes? Every time I'm there I see it. Who walks down the drive w/ no shoes!? Think of the diesae they must spread.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by wum

I think the argument goes that since God is about "orderliness", we have to imagine the world according to systems or the various "ologies". This paradigm rejects pixies or demons causing weather, or other phenomena.

and Catholics are another story altogether... oi

thats a pretty shitty arguement

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Rhianna

Do you see a lot of them w/ out shoes? Every time I'm there I see it. Who walks down the drive w/ no shoes!? Think of the diesae they must spread.

i bet that's how you catch 'hippy'. through your feet.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by cubed

I lived on the drive for 2 years, my hate for hippies knows no bounds.

werd, i hate everyone who dosnt ascribe to the same neo-liberial capitalist ideology as me...it goes double for hippies

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

i bet that's how you catch 'hippy'. through your feet.

nah man, you catch hippy from doing too much acid at shambhala

[Rhianna]

^doesn't that mean you're a hippy Sean?

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

nah man, you catch hippy from doing too much acid at shambhala

but i bet you can absorb acid through you feet!

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Rhianna

^doesn't that mean you're a hippy Sean?

no, because of my training and socialization as an ardent capitalist i am all but immune to the hippifying affects of acid and shambhala.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

no, because of my training and socialization as an ardent capitalist i am all but immune to the hippifying affects of acid and shambhala.

but if you marketed hippy products you could combine both your love for capitalism and the hippy way of life.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

but if you marketed hippy products you could combine both your love for capitalism and the hippy way of life.

i dont love the hippy way of life, three days a year of pseudo-hippyness is enough for me, and i probably wont be doing it at all beyond this year.

however i would engage in the comodification of hippy culture if i felt i could make money off of it regardless of my ambivalent feelings towards hippies.

[wum]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

thats a pretty shitty arguement

is not:(

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i dont love the hippy way of life

even better! now you can destroy their 'culture' with commercialization and do it with a clear conscience.