Foreign Aide not doing shit

[wum]

The amount stolen by African chiefs over the last 40 years is estimated at 220 billion British Pounds. The amount given to Africa by Western countries during the same period is the same 220 billion.

The only thing that's changed is that their people starve worse than ever, while their corrupt leaders have chateaus in European countries and now they have new weapons to savage eachother with ever greater profficiency.

What the dilly
========

£220bn stolen by Nigeria's corrupt rulers

The scale of the task facing Tony Blair in his drive to help Africa was laid bare yesterday when it emerged that Nigeria's past rulers stole or misused £220 billion.

That is as much as all the western aid given to Africa in almost four decades. The looting of Africa's most populous country amounted to a sum equivalent to 300 years of British aid for the continent.

[...]

The stolen fortune tallies almost exactly with the £220 billion of western aid given to Africa between 1960 and 1997. That amounted to six times the American help given to post-war Europe under the Marshall Plan.

[esoter1c]

Imagine My Shock !

[Goodfellow]

Who's the man with the plan?

A nikkuh with a gun!

[automatic]

ok, but remember, the 220B amount stolen by nigeria's corrupt rulership has nothing to do with foreign aid, it's money siphoned off from the export of nigeria's VAST mineral and oil wealth. nigeria is in fact a tremendously wealthy country. what this has to do with foreign aid to the rest of africa i don't know. if you really want to look at the problem in nigeria look at the fact that companies like shell are making a killing off petroleum there while only a measly percentage or so of the profit generated stays in the country, and of that the majority of it goes to corrupt officials in shell's pockets. there was actually a really good article in the georgia straight this week about it.

http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=11018

the other thing to remember about foreign aid is that it mainly goes to the country that gives it. this may seem counterintuitive, but it works like this....when canada announces a 10 million aid package to this country or that country here's something like what happens: we don't just ship a bunch of crates full of currency over, we buy 4 million dollars worth of grain off of canadian farmers, spend 2 million hiring a candian engineering company to help redesign their water supply, spend 2 million paying for canadian doctor's, teacher and nurses and supplies to go over and help out, pay 1 million for a canadian based aid agency to oversee it all, and then maybe give 2 million to whoever's in charge of the government.

of course once all the shit gets there a lot of it is diverted and sold, the medical supplies and food are pilfered and sold on the black market, the engineering team spends most of it's money paying bribes instead of actually getting things built, etc.....the bottom line is the foreign aid dollars do more good keeping our economy up and running than they do in africa. then again, it does do SOME good, and since it's good for our economy...

[automatic]

Originally Posted by wum

That amounted to six times the American help given to post-war Europe under the Marshall Plan.

actually the marshall plan envisioned as 20 billion 1947 dollars over about 10 years at most, and you're talking 220 billion 2005 dollars over 40 years...

totally different situations my friend, and while i don't know what a 1947 dollar is worth today, rest assured that your bold comparison just got shot to hell.

[wum]

Originally Posted by automatic

the other thing to remember about foreign aid is that it mainly goes to the country that gives it. this may seem counterintuitive, but it works like this....when canada announces a 10 million aid package to this country or that country here's something like what happens: we don't just ship a bunch of crates full of currency over, we buy 4 million dollars worth of grain off of canadian farmers, spend 2 million hiring a candian engineering company to help redesign their water supply, spend 2 million paying for canadian doctor's, teacher and nurses and supplies to go over and help out, pay 1 million for a canadian based aid agency to oversee it all, and then maybe give 2 million to whoever's in charge of the government.

This sounds like the "War is good for the economy" argument. Sure, you're employing people but where does the money come from if the grain isn't being sold for a profit? Tax payers my nga.

Originally Posted by automatic

of course once all the shit gets there a lot of it is diverted and sold, the medical supplies and food are pilfered and sold on the black market, the engineering team spends most of it's money paying bribes instead of actually getting things built, etc.....the bottom line is the foreign aid dollars do more good keeping our economy up and running than they do in africa. then again, it does do SOME good, and since it's good for our economy...

meh, it seems like most of the money is used to buy guns and oppress the people. It'd probably be best if they went back to a hunter/gather/agarian society.

[diva]

I'm definitely staying out of this thread.

People who are interested in the subject can PM for more info.

I've read rad essays from Economists who don't agree with the G8 plan either, but who offer up logical solutions for a very complex problem.

[wum]

Originally Posted by automatic

actually the marshall plan envisioned as 20 billion 1947 dollars over about 10 years at most, and you're talking 220 billion 2005 dollars over 40 years...

totally different situations my friend, and while i don't know what a 1947 dollar is worth today, rest assured that your bold comparison just got shot to hell.

It was them, not me

[wum]

Originally Posted by diva

I'm definitely staying out of this thread.

People who are interested in the subject can PM for more info.

I've read rad essays from Economists who don't agree with the G8 plan either, but who offer up logical solutions for a very complex problem.

spill them beans

[twentyHz]

Originally Posted by wum

This sounds like the "War is good for the economy" argument. Sure, you're employing people but where does the money come from if the grain isn't being sold for a profit? Tax payers my nga.

but it IS being sold for a profit, at least the farmers growing it are making a profit...North American agriculture is heavily subsidized, this is just one way governements get around free trade rules that limit subsidies....not saying it's right, just saying...

[quote=wum]meh, it seems like most of the money is used to buy guns and oppress the people. It'd probably be best if they went back to a hunter/gather/agarian society.[quote]

Not possible, the African population has boomed in the last hundred years, while food supplies have dwindled, due to the combination of modern medicine and the increased pressure that resource extraction, population and changing climate has had on the continent. might not be able to go back to where it was in terms of population/food supply without some near extinction level event.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by wum

The amount stolen by African chiefs over the last 40 years is estimated at 220 billion British Pounds. The amount given to Africa by Western countries during the same period is the same 220 billion.

The only thing that's changed is that their people starve worse than ever, while their corrupt leaders have chateaus in European countries and now they have new weapons to savage eachother with ever greater profficiency.

What the dilly
========

£220bn stolen by Nigeria's corrupt rulers

The scale of the task facing Tony Blair in his drive to help Africa was laid bare yesterday when it emerged that Nigeria's past rulers stole or misused £220 billion.

That is as much as all the western aid given to Africa in almost four decades. The looting of Africa's most populous country amounted to a sum equivalent to 300 years of British aid for the continent.

[...]

The stolen fortune tallies almost exactly with the £220 billion of western aid given to Africa between 1960 and 1997. That amounted to six times the American help given to post-war Europe under the Marshall Plan.

alot of the money stolen by nigerian leaders isnt aide...nigeria is floating in oil wealth and is one of the largest oil producers in the world so thats where alot of that money came from.

but yeah, corruption blows.

p.s what are you trying to prove by posting this?

[wum]

fuck you and your mother sean

[wum]

Originally Posted by twentyHz

Not possible, the African population has boomed in the last hundred years, while food supplies have dwindled, due to the combination of modern medicine and the increased pressure that resource extraction, population and changing climate has had on the continent. might not be able to go back to where it was in terms of population/food supply without some near extinction level event.

I think foreign aids threatens nature's natural equilibrium. Large scale agriculture is not organic to the African population and so when white farmers were ethnically cleansed from Zimbabwe and so South Africa, it was only inevitable that the people began starving to death.

Any sustainable solution to the crisis has to come straight from the people themselves.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by diva

I'm definitely staying out of this thread.

People who are interested in the subject can PM for more info.

I've read rad essays from Economists who don't agree with the G8 plan either, but who offer up logical solutions for a very complex problem.

You've read essays by economists ! Well shut my mouth.

You must know the soultion to the nwo then.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by automatic

ok, but remember, the 220B amount stolen by nigeria's corrupt rulership has nothing to do with foreign aid, it's money siphoned off from the export of nigeria's VAST mineral and oil wealth. nigeria is in fact a tremendously wealthy country. what this has to do with foreign aid to the rest of africa i don't know. if you really want to look at the problem in nigeria look at the fact that companies like shell are making a killing off petroleum there while only a measly percentage or so of the profit generated stays in the country, and of that the majority of it goes to corrupt officials in shell's pockets. there was actually a really good article in the georgia straight this week about it.

http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=11018

the other thing to remember about foreign aid is that it mainly goes to the country that gives it. this may seem counterintuitive, but it works like this....when canada announces a 10 million aid package to this country or that country here's something like what happens: we don't just ship a bunch of crates full of currency over, we buy 4 million dollars worth of grain off of canadian farmers, spend 2 million hiring a candian engineering company to help redesign their water supply, spend 2 million paying for canadian doctor's, teacher and nurses and supplies to go over and help out, pay 1 million for a canadian based aid agency to oversee it all, and then maybe give 2 million to whoever's in charge of the government.

of course once all the shit gets there a lot of it is diverted and sold, the medical supplies and food are pilfered and sold on the black market, the engineering team spends most of it's money paying bribes instead of actually getting things built, etc.....the bottom line is the foreign aid dollars do more good keeping our economy up and running than they do in africa. then again, it does do SOME good, and since it's good for our economy...

Someone who knows his shit !