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Sep 29, 05
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the destruction of a nation
on the brink of civil war, a divided nation, a crushed social structure, massive death toll that is rising by the moment, bloated ethnic segregration through US backing of at least one of the three major ethnic groups against the others at several occasions over the last 2.5 years-
TWO THUMBS UP FOR US FOREIGN AID! all the while the US government holds on to hope of carrying out there Paul Bremmer-esque " economic shock therapy" adding on another blatant "power grab" when deciding to take it upon themselves to rewrite many volumes of Iraqi textbooks; both stealing a job opp that should have been reserved for the Iraqi state, and a subversive way of ensuring that the US's role in history is downplayed. Sound familiar? Our very own Canadian government carried out the very same "rewriting of history" when unscrupolousy, and massively downplaying the massacre of aboriginals indegenous to the land prior to the brutal colonization of English and French conquerers. TWO THUMBS UP FOR EXPANSION! this is why there is a correlation between the war/occupations abroad and at home- the same actions being carried out by the very governments that tell us we are "peacekeepers" and "progressive" and "socially conscious" http://www.mawovancouver.org http://aljazeera.net (the arab equivalentof CNN, but pretty informative nonetheless) Last edited by fable; Sep 29, 05 at 02:02 PM. 
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Sep 29, 05
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hmmm. i can agree with how shitty both the canadian and american government behave, and how its some disgusting shit.
But can you really compare the european invasion of North America with the way the government acts today? I dont really think so dude. Nothing anywhere near as bad as what happened back then to the aborginals/first nations is happening now in this continent. and Thats because thank god, the majority of people (and people in power) have become far more socially concious over the years. It sounds like yer main gripe is that people are still shit. buddy, that aint never gonna change. Last edited by -evil-duerr-; Sep 29, 05 at 03:12 PM.
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Sep 29, 05
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But forget about everyone else for a second, forget what you believe the world thinks, tell me if YOU care, and why or why not. Thats what i care about, what YOU think::_________________________________ ____________________________ ________________________________________ __________________________ ________________________________________ ___________________________ peace+'spect fable
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Sep 29, 05
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Attn [Evil duuer]
Nix the "buddy" or "dude" please Perhaps I didn’t clarify, in my initial post. I was comparing what happened to the aboriginal peoples of N.America i.e. the colonization, with similar action that are being taken by the US government in various nations as well as the UK and Canada’s participation in Afghanistan and Haiti. Perhaps things may not see. as blatantly aggressive or imperialistic nowadays, but to counter that suggestion, I offer you a few thoughts - -the tons upon tons of new school propaganda that is largely unfiltered on the net (I’m talking the left as well the right) -large media conglomerates being comprised of a fairly small alumni who have interests just as entrenched deep in the pools of self interest as any government official -the sophistication of governmental spin doctors - admittedly after watching a long period of political based television, I almost believe that the respective governments are actually carrying out an agenda that is honest, and serves the collective population...almost -the plight of indigenous peoples has been rewritten, brushed aside, artificially twisted so many times that people often forget that land such as downtown is still officially coast salish territory and the government of Canada, has yet to clear the bill -the amount of news that we as regular folk receive on a daily basis about the going ons in the middle east/various Arab nations/Africa etc in the mainstream news is quite limited/ and or is second news filtered through US or UK media conglomerates The last time I was doing some Canadian history exploration the number of indigenous peoples killed through the course of our colonization ranked up close to a million (N.American wide) now I do recognize that this number is based on various subjective sources, but I have under estimated to take that into consideration, but I digress; If we use this number at the moment, and compare to the close to 200,000 deaths in Iraq, close to 65000 ~ 85000 dead in Afghanistan, the hundreds of thousand dead Israelis and Palestinians, the collective deaths in Haiti, and Cuba, then we can bring up a definite relevant comparison, and that is really what I was coming to as a point - The imperialistic/economic expansion initiatives of super power governments such as the US, the UK, China, and Canada, find’s themselves awash the blood of a similar number of deaths to that of early N.American colonization (and IM not even counting non direct war related deaths in the American Civil War) Like I mentioned before, the vastness of information corruption or manipulation is massive, but one doesn’t even really need to scour the details to realize that our government along with others, is working under the same pretenses as governments did over centuries ago. Self interest based conquering of weaker nations, scapegoat major social problems to a smaller weaker less represented ethnic group, throw in a shot of religious righteousness or two, perhaps a dab artificially concocted nationalism through dealing with a natural disaster, throw in government funded/private company directed "news" into the mix, and confuse the whole underlying principles of specific endeavors with a bunch of details that will keep the general population to busy in conflict with each other, to realize or even CARE about what’s happening to other nations:: current political climate in Canada -massive strike action across Canada including telus, and cbc (who also happen to be Candies last provider of international news with a shred of legitimacy left) -massive inability of a large contingent of the work force unable to commute to work due to skyrocketing gas prices including 9-5 groups and professional truck drives -tuition rates growing exponentially, and government subsidies/grants being cut -despite social care cutbacks such as long term care for the elderly and substance abuse/alcohol abuse/mental health communities, there has been significant raises in the Military Spending Budget (~12.8 billion dollars) as well as tax breaks for large corporations (this is as common a sight as panhandlers on Granville) -massive money mismanagement at all the municipal, provincial, and federal levels (is there ever a day WITHOUT an example of this) -although many a military offensive is based on the premise of counter-terrorism, Immigration Laws have actually be changed to more lenient (although I’m all for less strict immigration laws that are less hypercritical, the idea behind this recent move is far more exploitative than humanitarian) as to allow more trades people to enter the country (trades positions across the nation are in high demand! and yet lack of benefits, realistic WCB coverage, and working conditions have a part to play) ***I can see it now, five years from now the general population turns on the recent influx of immigrants because they are "stealing" jobs, vs. going after the source (the government) this is just a few issues in the home-front coupled with the reality that our government is in no way going to work with our indigenous peoples in such matters as ending band council corruption, separation and creation (or more truthfully - recreation) of an aboriginal nation, resource rights (a la fishing, logging) not to mention actually reopening the books and addressing that there is currently thousands of acres of government controlled, but native owned land that has yet to be paid for. The issues are somewhat the same now, as they used to be back in the days of colonization, the only difference is its buried under a far larger pile of hypocrisy and lies. I disagree with the notion that people don’t give a fuck about such issues. Although it is very easy for one to generalize that most heads on boards such as these are apathetic and ignorant, I find that most young cats seem more educated then a lot of people my age. Many a cat on this site, and others seem more media savvy then any genXer, and really any cynicism or apathy is based on a notion that used to be exclusive to parents - that being we cant get involved, because we have too much to lose! A mortgage, car lease, kids college fund, two car, picket fence bla bla, which are all perfectly valid, but I feel part of this belief is artificially injected through mass consumerist marketing, and the time honored tradition of divide and conquer and scapegoat. I become MORE hopeful with each new person I meet, old or young! Fuck this idea that kids don’t care, or old people are to cynical. That’s the fucking mainstream media talking, and on the part of the government. Although I’m prone to flip my fucking lid, I’m inspired by some of the knowledge that young cats have these days, hell I’m even inspired by their cynicism - which is just as sophisticated as any governmental scheme that’s being cooked up. We just need to keep asking questions and debating!!! You yourself showed that you obviously know a bit, considering your familiar with slaughter which our country was built on, as well asking questions, and attempting to draw conclusions through connection. I may have the severe battle with heads on the streets or on the boards from time to time, but ill try my ducking damnest to make sure the other person doesn’t leave uber pissed, or at least have them leave wanting to research particular notions or beliefs. The reality I believe is that current situations abroad ARE connected to issues on the home-front, and DO wax poetic about Canadian historical slaughter AKA colonization. keep with the research and debate peace+'spect fable Last edited by fable; Sep 29, 05 at 04:40 PM.
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Sep 29, 05
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You forgot sanctions.......
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That's not even counting Adult casualties. America and the power of their sanctions is what kills worldwide. It's what they thraten Canada with whenever we speak of legalization. Basically any country signed to NAFTA or WTO is under Americas thumb. The numbers given to us now are pure shit, civilian casualties in Iraq are waaaaay above anything they tell us. The illegal use of chemical biological weapons is also a major cover-up. Just as Israel is using unknown toxic nerve agents on Palestinian's. The Italian reporter th US claims they accidentally shot at and killed one of her escorts had just finished putting together a report on the use of these Biological weapons, they tried to kill her she escaped. Many reporters have been detained and are still in us custody for trying to report the truth about the us's illegal biological weapons. The truth very rarely gets through the US controlled media. There are sources which do get the truth out, unfortunately they are being squelched through the use of new "Hate Crime" legislation. Anytime you see them claim Hate Crime, it usually means thought crime. www.whatreallyhappened.com
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Sep 29, 05
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feck! you are completely correct, i forgot to mention the SANCTIONS that were inflicted upon the Iraqi nations for over 12 fucking years!!!
oil for food!?! sic, really fucking sic, no matter what spin you put on it. And although Suddam Hussein was a horrible dictator (insert irony statment here) within six months (a year seems more realistic) after the persian gulf war Hussein had the complete physical infrastructure of Iraq rebuilt. Regradless of the attrocities committed by Suddam(i agree with most of the stories) the reality of Iraqi history, and massive Iraqi indegenous opinion would have rather chosen conditions under the "evil tyranny" of Suddam vs. the "humanitarian efforts" of the US military - and thats just straight up fucking scary. If someone knows several sources i can look at to find tangible records of civilian deaths do to economic sanctions, could you send em my way? *im talking about less mainstream "humanitarian organizations" or smaller independent sources* peace+'spect fable
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Sep 29, 05
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The only one I know of.......
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Maybe somewhere in www.whatreallyhappened.com or www.guerillanews.com www.disinfo.com/site/ www.stopwar.ca
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