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Jan 16, 06
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A taste of whats to come in Afghanistan
The increase in violence in Kandahar, including the death of a Canadian diplomat, hints at what is in store for Canadian forces in leui of further committing more troops and an expanded military occupation coming up to spring.
Some related links. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...3F93A62DD4.htm http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060115/w011520.html Quote:
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Jan 16, 06
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Jan 16, 06
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Jan 16, 06
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never mind the fact that the political situation is so unstable that it'd be a civil war of epic proportions, accompanied by a humanitarian disaster. it's all about sticking it to THE MAN!. i mean, who cares how many afghanis would die as long as they're not oppressed, right?
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Jan 16, 06
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No afghan people in our group? Where did you get this information from? From the georgia straight? From two afghan academics who may or may not be part of the afghan wealthy community that benefits from the restructuring and ultimate privitization of state owned resources? What do YOU know of what the afghan people, since you decided to pull this card? Are you forgetting Iraq? It was pretty easy for us "canadians" to jump on the anti american war bandwagon, and somehow our blinding fucking nationalism causes us the in ability to find parallels and examples of the same kind of imperialist entrenchment in progress by our own government? Did you forget Paul Martins own words, stating that as a nation we need to put ourselves on the world stage as viable contenders, economically? If we accept that an expanding and growing propulation needs resources to survive, and that our own nations will not be enough, how do you propose this action? By "peacekeeping?" In a state of massive anti-middle eastern/persian sentiment, in a time of immigrant and refugee oppression exemplified by such racist policies as the R2P, canadian security certificates ,a third party national security objective and a push for two tier canadianism(how many fucking times do i have to bring this up!?!?!?!?) you think that afghan people in Canada are in any position to speak up? Come again senior, youve been found lacking. Quote:
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Go back and look at your post and research the basis, the cause and who was involved in producing the realites. -the political situation is unstable? ITS BEEN UNSTABLE SINCE 1976!!!! First it was the Russians and the US fighting their bullshit cold war at the expense of Afghan lives. The whole while the Pakistani government was making money through aiding the CIA, by allowing the transferance of arms and vehicles through their own land, as to not broadcast this too China. Do you know how the Taliban came into power in the first place? Do you know that in the course of aiding the US in fighting against "communist" russian there was a massive rift between federalist factions who would have rested any control over Afghan that the US currently had in Afghanistan, and keep it under lock and key. The other side was an extremist islamist faction that was completely outfitted with US blood money. How do you think this ended up? How many people died, suffered and fought during the american civil war> What about the formation of our own country? (let alone the massacre of five million indegenous peoples)? If we are lending "humanitarian aid" the WHY DO WE KEEP SENDING MORE TROOPS, MORE WEOPONS, AND MORE ARMAMENT? Why arent we sending more ngo/npo lead huminatarian brigades? Why are the afghan people fighting against us so hard? Why is so easy to label any man or women or child in a nation far away, that has known nothing but war and death with an american,russian or canadian label, fighting and hating anything and everything about us? Why was there an essential Canadian national media blackout, just as we were mobilizing, and excelerating our involvement there? Why is there so little CBC coverage there now? Why in the name of humanitarian aid, did we need to increase our military buget to 25.8 billion dollars? Why when the "balanced budget" was being broadcasted to every and any canadian, there was little to now light being shone on this doubling of the military budget? Why was ours and the US recruiting drive respectively intensified to massive proportions? Why was there over 6000 US desertions thoughtout 2005? Why did our army and that of the US miss recruiting goals in 2005? Why was there such an intensified recruiting drive on our universities and colleges? Why where they at our highschools!!!?!?!?!?!?!? Why cant a country, and a free people fight there own struggles, and go through the very neccessary revolution of social interaction and eventaul cohesiveness on their own!?!?!?!? Are the afghan people so weak, and stupid and simple they are unable to do this without the noble Canadian and US government!?!?!? How fucking real is democracy in this country? How clean, and fair was the development of our own fucking nation? Lean down and run your hand through the soil anywhere in a vancouver park, and if you dig deep enough, and taste soil, youll probably get the iron laded tang of INDEGENOUS BLOOD! Start putting one and one together man. You can ask me, why are the fucking afghan peoples of Canada supporting the war in Afghanistan, and ill fire back two more questions of my own, WHO are these Afghan people? Where are their interests? How free or safe is it for any Afghan people to talk about their true feeling in this country? How many Afghan people have actaully spoken out against the actions of MAWO, and on how many instances? Have you been out to a single rally, forum, or conference in the last two years? I may or maynot support the belief of Afghan people here in Canada. But i DO COMPLETELY support the struggles of regular Afghan people WHO ACTAULLY LIVE IN AFGHANISTAN. this following site, is created and moderated by The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan. A group of amazingly strong, dedicated and fearless women who have been in the center of the nightmare that is the imperialist cash grab for a nationas resources amidst a rising fundementalist faction, a corrupt government, and massive poverty DUE TO THE "HUMANITARAIN AID OF WESTERN STATES" http://www.rawa.org senior, goat and jay, i dont want to segregate, us, i dont want to shit on people, i want to listen to everyones opinions and i want to be patient, but if you think our government has the best interests of the people of Afghanistan, asides from those who seek to benefit from the poverty and desperation than you have a lot of researching and introspection to take on. If you do not like the idea of MAWO, i will come and meet you by myself, whereever, and whenever. Ill bring resources, ill bring letters, contacts, whatever the fuck illustrates the reality of US and Canadian occupation of Afghanistan. Ill listen and talk as much as you want. But if you insist on going perpetuating half truths, or being snide, or flippant or ignorant i will return the sentiment, and heat, ten fold on this board, and anywhere else for that matter. The persistence of the current instability and the West's support of the "Northern Alliance" terrorists in Afghanistan proves that the US and her allies pay no attention to human rights and women rights, but seek only their political and economical interests. - rawa Shakeel Lochan 604.719.7410 [email protected] [email protected] http://www.mawovancouver.org
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Jan 16, 06
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Jan 16, 06
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look, i don't have time to read that whole thing right now, i'll get to it in a bit.
but basically, i don't think now is the time for canada to pull out. there simply isn't enough of a unified structure in place to maintain afghanistan as a "soveriegn nation". yes, that's completely the fault of cold war ideology and wester/communist imperialism, but the bottom line is the country is fucked right now, and i believe that if canada and other countries there were to pull out it'd be lead to a bloody and extremely lengthy civil war, and the country would eventually dissolve in to a bunch of constantly warring warlord held states. i think that canada should absolutely pull out, but i'd like to see the political situation far more stable before that happens. there you go as i said before right now i think it's a choice between canadian "oppression" and total fucking bloody-minded chaos.
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Jan 16, 06
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or is it the "the longest damn rant!" of which case im hurt. I only swore once!?!?! or is it "take less drugs retard!" In which case, im really hurt. :(
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Jan 16, 06
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nope its to long didnt read.
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Jan 16, 06
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ez
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Jan 16, 06
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why dont you make a long story short and just give me the key points.
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Jan 16, 06
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i think it's a bloody and lengthy civil war. tell me why i'm wrong.
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Jan 16, 06
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^ and before you come on and say that it's the right of the afghan people to fight their own civil war for self-determination to bring about the birth of their country, i'd just like to add one thing. not every civil war end up in the forging of a strong and independent nation....sometime's they just drag on for decades and lead to no resolution. look at the situation in ethiopia/eritrea if you want a good example of a completely pointless and wasteful civil war.... they both spend most of their gdp on the military while the people live in crushing poverty.
the point is that we're THERE now. to leave without supporting some kind of national debate/communication/political structure that at least shows the hope of forging some kind of national consensus would be irresponsible imo.
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Jan 16, 06
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Jan 16, 06
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holy shit.. fable wanna write my paper for me?
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Jan 16, 06
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where's afanistan?
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Jan 16, 06
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I don't think Canada being there or not is going to change anything when Afghanistan is run by the CIA.
The Taliban eradicated the heroin crops. Thats why American forces went there in the first place, to stop the Taliban, not look for Osama. Now the Poppies are back 10 times as much as they were before. Thats what we're really doing there, protecting CIA Heroin, from the Taliban. Peacekeeping my fuckin ass ! Peacekeep with guns, that makes sense. Be peaceful or I'll blow your fuckin head off ! :285:
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Jan 16, 06
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Fable - Do you have reason to believe that Afghani's living in Canada can not speak their minds? Again as i said in the first place do you have any Afghani people involved with MAWO? It would seem you're suggesting these people are willing to fight a civil war but not to speak their minds freely in one of the safest countries in the World. I'm quite aware of the recent history of Afghanistan ('76 onwards) and that region yet I still just don't see that you have the right to try and represent these people.
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Jan 16, 06
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The idea or belief that unless western nations interceeded in the name of "humanitarian effort" Afghanistan will destroy itself is at the very core, racist, and arrogant. There isnt any historical fact, or precedent that says that the Afghan people will not be able to come to terms with the current social fragmentation and deteriation on their own efforts. We both can agree that Afghanistan is in the shitter. We both can agree that it is a result of social fragmentation, and the rise of extremism and corruption. What i dont agree with, is the root of these realities. Religeous fanatacism and governmental corrupton can only survive if there isnt a stable, organized oppostion. This opposition could only survive in a socio-political arena that promotes such. An arena that could garantee the reletive safety of the people, food, shelter, water, and essentailly an environment that is free to examine and its own inherant problems. It is essentially the people themselves in a soveriegn nation that can fight, and ultmately win their own freedoms. Savage? Perhaps, but in leui of the results of contemporary imperialistic occupation, whats more savage? - and which of the the two is essentailly an artificial situation!?! Jay, i dont disagree that Afghanistan does in fact need help. Im not so entrenched in my own beliefs in ideal examples that im blinded to the fact. But this leads me up to bring up the point of What is in fact our governments intentions with increasing military forces, doubling military budgets, and keeping all this activity in the dark? If we agree that its based on an imperialist agenda, the same agenda that has essentially been behind many of the woes of many nations, then what are the chances this one will help!? And further more, by accepting its imperialist in nature, how can we even believe it will help!?!?! The life expectancy of Afghan people has gone down 4.5 years since the initial occupations!!! One can go so far as just being content with bullshit CNN to learn how bad things really are! Sham elections, a government that is as corrupt as the Taliban was fundementalist, reconsruction contracts being given to western companies, massive social fragmentation, unemployment, lack of water and food, a massive refugee population are only a few indicators that the occupation is making things worse! But why would it be any different!?!?! By definition an imperialist agenda only cares enough of the people of occupied nation only enough to nullify any resistance. Use Iraq as a beggining point for comparson and critique. Ive only given a handful of ideas, beleifs and facts, there is so much more. But at the core, i will say this: The current state of Afghanistan is a direct result of US and Canadian government enacting an imperialist race in the nation. An imperialist race for resources to supply an ever expanding western population, that in general does not realize the state of our own economy, and what it really means to be able to feed it. With saying all this i cannot support such an endevour in the name of humanitarian endevour, knowing full well the history and agendas entenched in the contemporary reality of what imperialism is. Our support of the US and Canadian war drives only perpetuates the dissolving of any hope in hell to rebuild numerous nations including Haiti, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
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Jan 16, 06
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Neither do i believe that the small contingent of peoples who support the current canadian war drive, are in anyway in connection with the people WHO LIVE IN AFGHANISTAN. Any hope of revolution is based on a focussed progressive program, that respects the abilty to continue to function. This could legitemately be a foundation for a reason behind the current silence of the Afghan community. Im going to ask you to read between the lines of what im saying, and come to some conclusions. Im also going to ask you, that if peg you as someone who is ernestly involved in this struggle, what are the chances that these struggles are galvinated of the indegenous peoples of Afghanistan? The same resistance that is being fought in Iraq. The same resistance that is despertly trying to form in Haiti. How may people do YOU know who are of Afghan origin and support the Canadian war? And how many of these people are of the belief that the canadian war drive is inherently good ONLY because we are NOT american? And how many of these people know of what is going on in Haiti, and Iraq?
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Jan 18, 06
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What I still want to know though is this. With a significant Afghan population living in the lower mainland (and Canada) why are they not expressing opposition to the presence of Canadian Peace Keepers in Afghanistan? During apartheid in South Africa people spoke out and many suffered dire consequences as has been the case in nearly every other such struggle. Look at the situation in Myanmar (formerly Burma) where even under the most oppressive dictatorship and a complete lack of interest from the West news of what's happening is still getting out. My honest take is that for better or for worse the Afghan community in Vancouver supports Canada's efforts in Afghanistan. More on this latter...
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Jan 18, 06
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bro, your thinking in a bubble. Life doesnt work that way. Your failing to take into consideration all the connections between the actaull occupation, the historical content of our government and those involved in Afghanistan, our economy, the US economy, global economics, Afghanistans natural resources, inherant political power struggles, the actions taken by US government, the illigitemacy of the United Nations, the war on working people, immigrants and indegenous peoples at home.........
We are using completely opposite forms of logic.
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