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Feb 10, 06
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For The Homeless
My thoughts today:
Passing on Hastings today, I thought how many of those homeless are actualy great workers deep inside? How many of them just don't get those chances that we, us money owners, and family/friends supporting members help us achieve what we do best: Thinking that way, I realise the community we live in is more selfish by its ''over acting'' then communities I've seen by its ''under acting''...By this I am pointing out the fact: Are we doing to much? Is feeding their hunger the real probleme? Is it giving them a home where they can shelter a better solution so they can grow of them selfs? I'm not sure Edit: It should be provided with a minimum. I was thinking of a simple - environmental, economical, social, Working, ''None homeless developemental'' and so on for a community that seems to not figger what is the probleme...Drugs, maybe...None favorable situation to work, most definetly...Money, perhaps...Lazyness, Yes YES AND YES... So I go to the store to bring my glass bottles today for the deposit...Just to realize that the money they gave me in reture was really not worth the effort of bringing it, either keeping it in my appartement... So my point is, why not put larger deposites on bottles, cans.. If ''people'' really care about their money they would take the time...And trust me we find the time, its just a matter of organizing our selfs. Rich do not want to spend their times bringing those dirty, stinky bottles back to the store... So not only it would provide the chance for ''homeless'' to have incomes, but also it would provide them with a working mind... Giving them food, is not a solution, only if you don't want to find a dead man on your side walk, but who wants to see a veggy on their side walk? Edit: (Its only good for short term) Humans become lazy when they have nothing challanging them, they forget the notion of ''working to servive'' as we did thousands of years ago, and that wild animals still do.... It would provide them with a maybe reason to fight for their food...It would make them realise, ''my efforts wern't worth that drug I am addicted to or want to take, ''I am finaly doing something of my life'', and trust me people want to achieve much more when they are feeling more usefull... I SAY WE BRING HIGHER DEPOSITES ON THOSE BOTTLES, CANS AND WHAT EVER JUNK IS BAD ENVIRONMENTAL ELEMENT SUCH PLASTIC&ALUMINIUM. THOUGHS... Last edited by maztraz; Feb 10, 06 at 01:47 AM. 
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Feb 10, 06
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Thats one thing I dont understand.
If you want people to recycle and they make ads saying that 'its worth it' to recycle, why lower the deposits on bottles? If every bottle you bought from the store there was an extra 75 cents deposit, then people wouldn't chuck them out, they would recycle. When its only 5 cents a can, personally I don't care and most of the time end up just placing them in the garbage can. I know its NOT the right thing to do, but hey im lazy, fuck off.
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Feb 10, 06
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i didn't see you out hand making and handing out over 500 sandwhiches to these people on christmas eve-eve in the pouring rain. it WAS a solution because those people were starving, and damn were they ever thankful for what we did for them. who knows, maybe after a good meal and a warm cup of coffee, even ONE of those people was inspiried to get up and DO something.... Taking cans/bottles away from them isn't going to make them suddenly change their attitudes towards drugs. its going to make them do even more radical things to achieve the high they are looking for. and face it, addicts are NOT going to stop being addicts just because. they've got to WANT to stop booting or smoking. Last edited by Silverwinged; Feb 10, 06 at 01:25 AM.
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Feb 10, 06
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i think bigger deposits is actually a pretty good idea.
although i disagree that shelter and food is not the answer. it's not the WHOLE answer, but it's part of the answer. they have to be able to get food in them to get energy to go out and get on with their lives and they also need a place to sleep...because without a place to sleep at night it's hard to get your shit together (i assume). there are many homeless people out there who are already collecting cans/bottles for money...so, i mean, making the deposits higher will increase their income, but lots of them are working this way already. they have already started up bottle return companies in the downtown eastside that are run by volunteers and homeless people. so you're idea is already in the works. :)
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Feb 10, 06
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i highly doubt anyone starves to death in Vancouver. i agree, laziness has become a problem because of the level of support that the less fortunate recieve, but in many cases people are homless and living on the streets becuase of problems out of their control. ie: upstairs.
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Feb 10, 06
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You have no idea what I have done of my life dear. Have you maybe thought that I have problemes as well, and must help my self before in order to be able to help others... I never said it wasn't a solution, or okay maybe I did, but I think it provide only a solution on THE SHORT TERM ONLY..but thats not what we are looking for, we are looking for long term... I don't doubt that maybe some were inspired by what people have done and looked forward...I do admire the people that do that as much as the people that live a certain way. My point was people are capable of much more when they are provided with opportunities that make they're incomes grow. Last edited by maztraz; Feb 10, 06 at 01:35 AM.
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Feb 10, 06
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i think CERTAIN people are capable. yes. but how many of the people that sit on hastings are there because they've sold away their lives for drugs/booze/whatever? i know that there is no way of knowing, so i wont make a statement. However, i do know that a good chunk of those people aren't going to give two shits about having a job opportunity. Again, they are only going to care about where the next hit is coming from. I'd love to see more opportunities for people to get out of the rut they are in, but alot of the time, the first step is rehab or a half way house... There just isn't access to facilities like this, as there should be. I'd be FAR happier seeing my tax dollars go towards rehabs that are turning out people who are USEFUL in society, rather than safe injection sites.
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Feb 10, 06
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^safe injection sites are really the first step toward rehabilitation. they don't promote drug use, just provide safe means, and they offer help for getting off the drugs as well. they don't just supply clean needles and swaps...they supply the information that is going to help people get clean.
you also don't want your tax dollars going to pay for some guy who's now sick with AIDS or hepatitis C or needs help because he's overdosing...right? safe injection sites really do help out with that type of stuff as well. and it costs less money to run them than the hospital bills would be from them getting sick (not to mention the loss of hospital beds to other citizens)
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Feb 10, 06
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maybe i'm letting my ignorance show through, but IMHO providing safe means is a certain type of promotion within itself. Why would anyone want to get clean when there is no fear of getting hep or aids, and they can go about their merry way... the biggest fear if any, being a bad batch of rock. and they supply the information, but how many people actually take the time to read it/pay it any reguard before/after booting up?
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Feb 10, 06
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Some look: More depression then happiness in life, lack of social help and warmth, tough community situation:most people being coldminded, or rough spirituality, feeling completly abandoned... I'd say more then the above, basicaly people that take drugs need things to be balanced and it is just more aviouse when they take drugs and thats what they want to show ''conscious or unconscious'' its there and alive and most people don't see it or don't wanna see it -- And if it is there, its cause people don't enough for THAT. Some built: They need a spiritual/emotional experience to warmth them up, and just can't find it no where, the ''professionalism'' we have in this society is just cold minded to new spiritualities Alot of people seem to fear outer cultures/methods. With my strong travel experience, I personaly find it hard here my self even tho I make efforts for it to happen but not everyone has the power to, having a spirituality to conferte you to put you in the right direction, guide you through what is unsure, educate you with certaine methods with a social back ground should be automatic in our society -- But its not there! Or its to Far!Or people are underground or rejecting. So what do people do, is make their own, but often making decisions by our own aren't always healthy cause a human hasn't all the necesary knowledge/ideals to know what it is to built a spirituality or emotions of conferte by them selfs -- Like childhood you need mother guiding/knowledge/conferte as much as fathers..Some people don't always take that in consideration cause often they did not have that basic education -- that should give them alot of reasons to fight in life if they havn't had that or other -- We all have things from childhood that are missing today, and that is the reason for what we fight for. They're must be a organizations of re-education as much opportunities to built solid income. How many times do I see pyramids of matresses in the back streets that just lay there for weeks. Childen accesories, Electronic stuff, clothing/shoes, home Furniture, basic materials to make masterpieces: paper&woods, metals&plastics...etc Im sure 3rd world countries are more organized at that level then we are... Exemple: One could collect materials/objects. Other could built things out of it. Some could try to sell it as a piece of art or usefull piece of furniture and what not. People could getter and have reasons to getter to construct something possitive, and could make they're own piece of marketing and finaly make something possitive out of all this negative vibes that society releases. Do we have centers like these? I would love to know what they are doing if so. THE REASON FOR THIS IS SOMETHINGS ARE NOT BALANCED WHEN THEY NEED TO BE BALANCED.
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Feb 10, 06
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I personally believe at the core of our homless problem, and like those across the world is, class discrimination and oppression. Enacted through a growing trend of social program cut backs, discrimination against those in the mental health, and addicition communities, as well as indegenous peoples, refugees/immigrants.
I think that mental health, and addicitions play a major role in the detriment of homeless peoples, but also believe that a large portion of this is a product of what i mentioned earlier. In the light of this, i think that an accelerated program of social program cutbacks, gentrification, and essentially, an ever expanding capitalist/neo liberal program, both domestically and internationally, will see poverty become more and more a prevalent problem as the years as pass. (The situation is already critical for fucks sake) And i think much of this, is PLANNED. I say one of the first, and more realistic steps, is to empower, and mobilize the impovrished peoples. But to do this, we must increase the availability, resources, and shear size of medical/mental health/addicitions services. Only then can there be a legitimate effort made to educate the peoples in question, and clarify, the nature of the situation, and the reletive who, what, where, why, when. Throughout this there needs to be an increased parallel effort in education, and unification of those in a more "comfortable" state of living/higher class/middle class, whatever you want to call it, and help illustrate that said people have more in connection with said impovrished peoples then the very government that somehow wins over subrurban/middle class support. Its all interelated. Domestic poverty, international imperialist war. We undertake the temporary tasks, like feeding, clothing, and trying to rehab impovrished peoples, because to not undertake congruent action would be simply detrimental to long term action, but this temporary action MUST always be purposeful, and indicative of said long term action. Outreach/Introduction/Comforting/Detox or Rehabilitation/Education/Unification/Mobilization/Empowerment....revolution?
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Feb 10, 06
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But i do appreciatte the sentiment, greatly. Thanks for making this thread,
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Feb 10, 06
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you can't force someone to get clean off drugs if they don't want to get clean. it's like those kids at raves who pop a hundred pills of E a night...until they realize that it's not good for them they aren't going to stop doing it...they won't listen to anyone until they believe it themselves. does that mean we shouldn't have sites online that promote safe E use...or have pill testing stations at big festivals such as Shambhala? i don't think so. people are going to do drugs if they want to do them...you can't force them into rehab to clean up their act. even if we could force people into rehab, how many do you think would stay clean afterwards?
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Feb 10, 06
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What you seem to forget is unification will not be brought without disunification, what unifise people is in fact something out there that seperates communities to gether but also creates a concept of ''struggle'' if you can call it like that -- I don't think applying pressure in a violant physical away is good, and I way far from there, it is only struggle of conscious we want to apply, and drugs alcohol is much worser and it is cruality at other level(what is more illogical then inflicting a war to our selfs?) What we are looking forward to know is the quickest way to achieve something for people with little opportunities, I love to believe there is a other process that we could apply, but I don't think its that easy on short term as you say''''' And this state of ours is in no way gona chance his conception of the world a day to other -- bringing solution little by little is the best way, slowly prenetrating it to build something of our own.. People need reasons of unification, they don't just unify cause they were givin process in hand, the process needs to be in hands as much as in the environmental surrounding them... Of course they need resource of re-education, and possibilities of gethering -- It needs also a structure of as much possitive then negative elements to build spiritual of faith, like energy need possitive and negative molecules to produce energy.... Don't thank me, its only bunch of words, the act in its self is much more important. Last edited by maztraz; Feb 10, 06 at 05:31 PM.
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Feb 10, 06
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edit- or way too fucking lazy.
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Feb 10, 06
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i've noticed a few people make comments like the one above in this thread. just because people didn't want to (or couldn't) come and help out with you guys on that date, doesn't mean they care any less. it doesn't mean they don't do their own thing to help. for people to even suggest that is ridiculous. fnk isn't the only way to help people. besides, the point of that was to help people, not to give you "bragging rights" about it later on the internet.
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Feb 10, 06
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I take it you were there, and i salute your efforts. But if your are speaking as someone who dedicates a large portion of their life to such work, then im sure we will cross paths sooner than later. Perhaps then conversation can be more civil, and less irrelevant.
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Feb 10, 06
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Its an all out fight. Brutal, painful, long, and foccussed.
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Feb 12, 06
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I think that indeed re-education is very importent, but they're is just something out there that is needed for the people to move ''they're asses'' if you want to call it like that -- Get them moving, re-educate them self as workers, building a little more self-psychological health... Higher deposit would be indeed very materialistic, and I have thought of doing this in winter only: Since the situation is often physicaly un-stable by winters, but psychologicaly unstable in summer -- so they're would be great abuse in summers of MATERIAL power, but it seems they're is great abuse of MENTAL power at the moment... Should we devolop a seasoning in witch deposit would be higher on winter seasons and re-education centers would be lower in welcoming. And in summer devoloping bigger desponibalitiy for re-eduction, and lower possible income... I have thought of the short process but not the lasting.. Deposits would be hard to check every season, I think there people that have other solutions as well... The fallowing would probably be a great, indeed complicated, but great process: Last edited by maztraz; Feb 12, 06 at 04:39 AM.
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Feb 12, 06
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