computer nerds (rawb please look at this too) that live downtown.

[NinjaBoy]

Yeah, in the other thread it took a month to get resovled. Shitty yes, but better then no 360 at all. And I'm sure that represents a small percentage (Since my brother exchanged his with no problems at all).

[ebbomega]

I think I need to explain something about the company you're dealing with here.

Microsoft is not in the commodity business. They never have been. They sell the XBox at a loss so that they can get people to pay for their online services (Live being the only side of the XBox where Microsoft makes money). They are in the service business.

As a result, in their minds what you purchase is NOT the XBox 360 console. What you are purchasing is the right to use an XBox 360 for x number of years (X being the number of years applied to the warranty). Many things void these rights. Opening up your system and doing custom mods or hacks is a surefire way to void it.

I don't really think there's a good way out of this situation Marty, except to say "What were you thinking when you bought it in the first place"? Other than "ZOMG THEY HAVE COOL GAMES ONLY FOR XBOX", the writing was on the wall from DAY 1 that the 360 was released. How people feel they can justify dropping anything more than $300 on a product that is known to be defective since its inception (and even if you bought it in the first wave of sales, Microsoft is really not exactly known for their testing standards and it was fairly obvious that there were going to be issues with this). It's a disposable machine, and MIcrosoft knows this. They just backed themselves into a corner when they realized that they were gonna lose out on their cash cow when nobody has working 360s to use on the Live system, so now they've extended their warranties. But we still have yet to see any improvements on the hardware or testing end of Microsoft.

Basically, you got scammed by one of the biggest blue-chip companies on the market, and you have nobody to blame but yourself.

You got hosed, Marty. You got hosed.

[askdjasd]

I agree

but unlike a few people here.. im a freakin game addict and there's nothing more rewarding than fixing the stupid problem yourself.

When I modded my orig xbox with the actual chip (the softmod royally fucked up the xbox and I had to replace the hd)
Such a great feeling!

Why I dont mod my 360, until xlink kai comes out with the 360 patch (in which it should be stupidly soon), then I have to do all my online gaming with live.

[ebbomega]

I have a prediction though, and this could be good if it happens. I think Microsoft is going to need to go the way of Sega: Take the area of the market they succeed in and drop the console market and just be an add-on to the other players.

Seriously, if they're losing money on games and consoles, why the hell don't they just drop those facets and sell PS3 Live or Wii Live subscriptions? Nintendo's in dire need of a good online system for the North American market... why not just contract Microsoft to do it for them?

This is my main problem with MS - overextension. They really need to just pick a market (and it seems the one they really want to push these days is Online Services) and stick to it, instead of trying to get their foot in every technology door that exists.

[askdjasd]

That's a big theory for a corporation that doesnt care about losing a bit of money since the main consumption of their profits is in the PC world.

They're pretty much newbies of the console world and last I heard they starting to get a big crowd in Japan.
Plus companies still have to pay MS, Sony and Nintendo for the use of their guidelines and when something fails one of the the companies. Publishers are paying big time, most likely a cause that (other than a design issue or just "Lets make the game better and push it back") failed Guidelines for 1st party companies.

This information i just spout out was what they told me at EA a few years back.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by askdjasd

That's a big theory for a corporation that doesnt care about losing a bit of money since the main consumption of their profits is in the PC world.

This is a bullshit statement. Haemorrhaging money is haemorrhaging money, and no company wants to lose money.

They're pretty much newbies of the console world and last I heard they starting to get a big crowd in Japan.

Um, yeah, let's see a citation for that. Last I heard their total Japan sales for 2007 were under 300k consoles sold.

Plus companies still have to pay MS, Sony and Nintendo for the use of their guidelines and when something fails one of the the companies. Publishers are paying big time, most likely a cause that (other than a design issue or just "Lets make the game better and push it back") failed Guidelines for 1st party companies.

Yes, but both Sony and Nintendo are better at that game than Microsoft. They have both ALWAYS been hardware companies, selling consumer electronics. Microsoft has ALWAYS been a software/online services company, and have absolutely no concept how to build a stable piece of machinery. IBM ran into this problem with processors, which is why now all Macs are being made with Intel chips - BECAUSE INTEL KNOWS HOW TO MAKE PROCESSORS. IBM is a business analyst company, not a chip designer. Likewise, Microsoft is a computer services company, not a console designer. Their efforts would be a lot more fruitful if they focused on that.

This information i just spout out was what they told me at EA a few years back.

Yeah, but a few years back everybody expected Microsoft to be able to fix their consoles.

[askdjasd]

It was a bullshit statement :)

Ok, I'll agree with you just cause in my party, my xbox is fucked. I'm scared to buy another HDMI box cause im scared that will be shit.
Im contemplating a wii or a ps3.

BUT.
My concern is games.
Like i said, PS3 will have outstanding games... not a word of a lie. We all know that PS3 will do good, its just the swift kick in the nuts it desperately needs.
But as im reading.. most of the cool ass wicked ps3 games are not standalone. They're made for both PS3 and Xbox 360.
And I'm pretty sure, by 2009 and I'll own all three current gen consoles.

[ebbomega]

I realize that your concern is games, this is why the situation stinks. I'm just quick to blame MS is all. =)

Nintendo was not far off when they started marketing their systems like drugs (the whole "Too Much Fun" campaign). Microsoft is like the acid dealer on hastings & main, whereas Nintendo is that pot dealer who lives in the crazy yaletown apartment and has a qp of 20 different AAA strains in a wooden cupboard with glass casing and humidification to present the strains to you.

What we need is for the weed dealer to talk to the acid dealer's chemist, and then you don't need to go to Sketchy McSketcherson who's probably gonna rip you off or give you bunk drugs anyways.

[askdjasd]

the same could've been said with Sony back in the day (bad example cause PSOne was quality)
I have a feeling that MS will continue to sell consoles and eventually they will produce quality.

But now here's the real question.. What comes after the current gen systems?

[meth0dical]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

But we still have yet to see any improvements on the hardware or testing end of Microsoft.

except they've changed over to the "falcon", 65nm chip replacing 90nm chip. they also started adding larger heatsinks to the refurbs AND to production models before the falcon. they fucked up at the beginning and they admitted it was because they wanted to get a jump on sony, but they're taking the steps to prevent any more failures.

[ebbomega]

[quote=askdjasd;1954750]the same could've been said with Sony back in the day (bad example cause PSOne was quality)

No it couldn't. Sony had awesome consoles throughout. The original run of the PS2 had some disc read problems for a while but they did end up fixing that.

I have a feeling that MS will continue to sell consoles and eventually they will produce quality.

MS is not a hardware manufacturer. The other two companies are. This is why I think you're dreaming a fool's dream.

[askdjasd]

they're doing it right now

I got 3 years out of my 360, who knows what the dude did to it previously.

So im not pissed off about the situation, I cant wait to fix it up, and if i cant.. im going to pick up a new one and take the risk getting another pos.

[ebbomega]

Where the hell did you get a 360 3 years ago?

[askdjasd]

2 and a half years ago.

fuck

It was first gen.

[ebbomega]

November 2005 < 2.5 years ago.

SEE THIS? THIS IS ME SUFFERING MY DIARRHEA ALL OVER YOUR CORNFLAKES

[askdjasd]

I got my box in December 2005

I got my live sub in Jan.

[ebbomega]

That's 2 years, buddy.

[askdjasd]

Ok

Thanks capt. calculations.

None the less, Im still satisfied with my product until its break.

So, I have searched on countless websites, the top left, bottom left, bottom right are blinking red, the top right is black.
That shows the fix is reletively easy, just taking the box apart will suck.. balls.

[meth0dical]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I have a prediction though, and this could be good if it happens. I think Microsoft is going to need to go the way of Sega: Take the area of the market they succeed in and drop the console market and just be an add-on to the other players.

Seriously, if they're losing money on games and consoles, why the hell don't they just drop those facets and sell PS3 Live or Wii Live subscriptions? Nintendo's in dire need of a good online system for the North American market... why not just contract Microsoft to do it for them?

This is my main problem with MS - overextension. They really need to just pick a market (and it seems the one they really want to push these days is Online Services) and stick to it, instead of trying to get their foot in every technology door that exists.

lols
the gaming industry is too big a market for ms to just back out. they've already established themselves as a major player, why would they pull out of the console area now? every manufacturer loses money on their console, not just microsoft, they aim to get that money back through peripherals and software sales. with however many million live subscribers, and 8 million halo3 buyers leading the way, they've actually turned a profit. i dont think ms is going anywhere... i think they'll actually create a huge base with the 360 (already happening) and then lead us into the next next-gen war.

[askdjasd]

Valid points, first time i've agreed with you meth.

BUT

HD-DVD is dead.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by askdjasd

yes

but

the xbox i might recieve, might be a pos.. refurbished. waiting 2-6 weeks is something I dont really want to risk.
but hey, maybe it might work.
Then who knows? it works for a week and I gotta send it back.

I've done my reading and there's more negatives than positives sending it back to MS.

#1 - if you open up your own xbox it *will* void your warranty.

#2 - I have heard hundreds of complaints about the 360 dying prematurely but I have heard nothing but good things about the replacement/warranty service. Most people are getting brand new 360s in exchange (which likely have the new heat sink technology that's supposed to counteract the overheating). We had 3 xbox's bricked here at work - returned it and we were sent back brand new consoles within a week.

#3 - you'd rather hack you own xbox with instructions you read on the internet than trust the service department of the company that actually made the hardware who will do it for free?

Good luck with that.

[meth0dical]

hd-dvd is dead, but ms made the right choice in offering it as an external add-on, rather than in the console from the factory. it saved the consumers hundreds of dollars off the top, and the annoyance of having their console driven by a failed format. thats another one of the reasons ps3 took so long to come out, sony wanted to make sure they weren't making a huge mistake.

ebbo you're obviously biased towards microsoft and its clouding your judgement on ms's ability to make a console. i'm sure they're as familiar with hardware as they are with software, i dont think its that new of a world to them. first run 360s failed because ms wanted to beat sony to the market and they didnt test the console extensively. ya, it was a douch-move, but it worked. it worked so well that half the sony exclusives either jumped ship or went multi-platform because they know here the money is... in the xbox 360.

[askdjasd]

you're probably right.

I'll call ms when i get home.
and if they say something else.. im getting the screwdriver!

[ebbomega]

I have my reasons for being biased towards [sic] Microsoft.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by meth0dical

lols
the gaming industry is too big a market for ms to just back out. they've already established themselves as a major player, why would they pull out of the console area now? every manufacturer loses money on their console, not just microsoft, they aim to get that money back through peripherals and software sales. with however many million live subscribers, and 8 million halo3 buyers leading the way, they've actually turned a profit. i dont think ms is going anywhere... i think they'll actually create a huge base with the 360 (already happening) and then lead us into the next next-gen war.

Rewind 3 years and I'm hearing this exact same argument for the Xbox.

They have established titles, yes, but they're losing money on the console market. They'd be smart to cut their losses and just focus on getting developers signed onto their Live service and then offering their Live service to Sony and Nintendo. Live is their key source of profit here, and the hardware is proving to be more trouble than it's worth for two generations already.