hiphop. it's for your own good.

[axion]

im not gonna get involed in this argument, everything i could possibly say has already been said. rawb is right on the money, "hiphop is fucking hiphop" and that's the bottom line.

anyways here's some albums:
roots manuva - run come save me
ghostface - supreme clientele
jay-z - reasonable doubt
emanon - emanon and on & on
finsta - krush
a tribe called quest - the love movement, midnight maruaders (sp?)
el-p - fantastic damage
company flow - funcrusher plus
dilated peoples - the platform

[wundergirl]

Originally Posted by rawb

without dre and rza, both bling drugs and bitches, who would all these 'real hip hop' producers copy? what does that leave... 100 biters on dj premieres jock?

well. the bling-bling era was cute but it's over. you were right about illmatic, while leaving out stillmatic, which was a disgrace. with god's sun nas is taking it back, (which is why the lost tapes were released 3 months before god's sun) no doubt hoping to forget where he's been all these years.
i listen to immortal technique, masta ace, binary star, aceyalone and so on, and if you think they're talking about middle class issues you've got your head up your ass. the middle class is the issue, and furthermore, i can't relate to someone from the projects any more than you can relate to any of your bling-bling heros, so class shouldn't even enter into it.

liquid sword was tight but wu has had just as many bad tracks as good. dre is a businessman - not an artist (not by a long shot) and snoop IS wack. i saw him last year and he was so fucked up he could barely hold his cancer patient 80 pound ass up with the mic. it was pathetic.

as far as being without bling-bling, drugs and bitches, the door would open for artists with a message that applies to humanity, not the middle class.

http://www.undergroundhiphop.com
go educate yourself. i'm not looking for a fight. i just wanna talk about something i love.

[wundergirl]

canadian artists....
freksho
dead can't bounce
sweatshop union
moka
john smith
peanuts and corn

these groups/mcs definately need more canadian exposure. dead can't bounce - i aint afraid of no ghost is an amazing album...pick it up!

[Akeel]

white canadian middle to uppper class youth/young adults preach about the proliferation of urban black music and how it defines them as individuals....on the next passionate eye.

[Moon]

this is such an old stupid debate

[miss.myra]

haha bling bling heros!

I want that to be my crew.


Because you're all about "underground hip hop" doesn't mean we don't know about it, and because we don't 'feel' the music like you do doesn't mean we don't love it too. Personally, I'm pretty over getting gold stars for dropping names of artists who support issues just because they ought to..but hey, props to you for being passionate about something. I rock it because I'm having fun. Although we share a lot of similar tastes in music, I don't think my choice in artists really grants me a place to get up on a soapbox and dictate what hip hop really is (and downright OUGHT TO BE!) and what people ought to get down to.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by wundergirl

well. the bling-bling era was cute but it's over. you were right about illmatic, while leaving out stillmatic, which was a disgrace. with god's sun nas is taking it back, (which is why the lost tapes were released 3 months before god's sun) no doubt hoping to forget where he's been all these years.
i listen to immortal technique, masta ace, binary star, aceyalone and so on, and if you think they're talking about middle class issues you've got your head up your ass. the middle class is the issue, and furthermore, i can't relate to someone from the projects any more than you can relate to any of your bling-bling heros, so class shouldn't even enter into it.

but that's complete bs. i cant relate to sad rock songs when im not sad, but it doesn't make them not rock songs or not enjoyable. i cant relate to ray charles gospel blues but i fucking eat that shit up. like fuck if i know what half jim morrison says. just because you aren;t down with the words the artist is expressing muscially doesn't mean you can't be down with thier music, or that it makes it any less skillfull or enjoyable on its own merits.

liquid sword was tight but wu has had just as many bad tracks as good.

yeah but they're responsible for so many classics it doesnt matter. they have 1, maybe 2 classic albums, and rae, ghost and gza have at least one, beginning to end, classic album each. protect ya neck changed hiphop, and they singlehandedly popularized so many new elements in mcing and production that it's forgivable if they put out a weak group track.

dre is a businessman - not an artist (not by a long shot) and snoop IS wack. i saw him last year and he was so fucked up he could barely hold his cancer patient 80 pound ass up with the mic. it was pathetic.

dre is a smart motherfucker and a musical genius. nwa, tupac, em, snoop, death row, 50... how many top 10s has he produced? how many artists has he made or revitalzed the careers of? +2 classic albums. who cares if he is an average mc? no one. he is so chomped it's not even funny. the man's been relevant for like over 15 years. how can you even dispute that? name someone who started producing in the nwa era who still makes #1s and sounds fresh. yeah he has a stable but fuck it dude is hot and sought after. how much platinum has he done?

snoop is well produced, never seen him live, still relevant.

as far as being without bling-bling, drugs and bitches, the door would open for artists with a message that applies to humanity, not the middle class.

when i see a hendrix video he's not saving humanity. when im in the club in no thinking of saving humanity. im getting my puff dance on and my drink on. that music is just as relevant and some dude in a woven LRG hat rapping about how emo life is.

http://www.undergroundhiphop.com
go educate yourself. i'm not looking for a fight. i just wanna talk about something i love.

oh man i could start another thread about how calling it underground hiphop is complete lols, but whatever. i dont disrespect the music and i enjoy some of it. in fact a year or two ago i was just like you, rocking an anticon hoodie and a backpack.

i just dont see the logic on saying it is somehow better/more relevant/real-er/more hip hop than anything else. it's ignorant.

[Akeel]

^
your so sittin on 20" lorinsers after that post.

[cheebus420]

Originally Posted by rawb

without dre and rza, both bling drugs and bitches, who would all these 'real hip hop' producers copy? what does that leave... 100 biters on dj premieres jock?

For your information Rawb, not all hiphop artists out there today copy dre and rza. And it's funny you should mention Rza, or even the whole Wu-Tang Clan, because they're a good rags to ritches story. The 36th Chambers was recorded in such a ghetto state in new york, you can hear cars in the background of the studio.

[axion]

i dont even really understand how there could possibly be a debate about this topic. i've participated in other discussions like this but like k-pryde said, it's getting so old and tired. i've only been posting here for the past 4-5 months and i've already seen about 3 or 4 threads about the same thing, and every thread ends with the exact same result... everybody involved in the thread hits a stalemate and comes to the logical conclusion that no form of hiphop is any more valid than the other form.
personally, i dont see any point in over-analyzing this issue and making it any more complex than it needs to be.

[Sykonee]

For the list portion of this thread, I'll just say Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep. It gets overlooked far too often in list threads, I've noticed.

For the underground/mainstream etc. portion of this thread, hnn... I've read this debate far too many times to really give a rats ass so I'll leave you with fun verse from the so-called golden age of hip hop (reportedly late 80's-early 90's). Bonus karma points to whoever can guess who it's by...

Let's look at this another way
Back in the day, when Elvis played
He stole his rock 'n' roll from the black
And the media never attacked.
But if I sample some seconds on a record
Yo, check it, down with the neck
With a lynch mob and a noose.
But the madman always gets loose.
Heavy metal guitars made them stars
But let's expose them for what they are
Samplers, 'cause all their tricks
Are classic music riffs. Ain't that a bitch.
But ya' didn't know that,
'Cause all the bad press goes to rap acts.
So if you wanna know it,
The whole music industry stole it!

[Wood]

Originally Posted by wundergirl

well. the bling-bling era was cute but it's over.

shit, you better run over to INNER CITY AMERICA and tell them that, i think they missed the news.

:312:

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by Wood

shit, you better run over to INNER CITY AMERICA and tell them that, i think they missed the news.

:312:

I guess we better kiss the days of drunken penguin dancing and sipping henessey GOODBYE sherwood :(:(:(

[Wood]

i know myra, now i have to hang up my penguin parka forever. so sad.

Originally Posted by wundergirl

http://www.undergroundhiphop.com
go educate yourself. i'm not looking for a fight. i just wanna talk about something i love.

ahhh, so you're educating yourself on an on-line record shop? that explains a lot....

[wundergirl]

Originally Posted by Wood

ahhh, so you're educating yourself on an on-line record shop? that explains a lot....

i'm just giving the kid a reference point from which to start looking for something that isn't found in the top 40. my bad tho, you cant get your drink on to it, and it'll make you think instead of shakin your ass, so i guess it just falls into the category of nonthreatening backpacker rap. you can flame all you want and yap yap yap. the genres aren't the same.

[rawb]

of course more intelligent music is always better music. whenever im at a party people are always like 'AIIIYOOOOO WHERE THE LEONARD COHEN AT? TOSS THAT SHIT ON'

UNDERGROUND 4 EVR

[Wood]

Originally Posted by wundergirl

i'm just giving the kid a reference point from which to start looking for something that isn't found in the top 40. my bad tho, you cant get your drink on to it, and it'll make you think instead of shakin your ass, so i guess it just falls into the category of nonthreatening backpacker rap. you can flame all you want and yap yap yap. the genres aren't the same.

can't get your drink on to what, Kanye West? seriously, all i see is an average web store and a horrible forum filled with clueless kids like you. rawb doesn't need to be educated, he's one of the most knowledgable hiphop heads on here. you, however, need to gain some perspective... try www.djztrip.com, that's a much better hip hop forum.

you got it all wrong... the artists you listed are (mostly) dope, no one is arguing that. but all this nonsense about 'rap' and 'hiphop' being 2 separate things, is just wrong & totally off base. shows a total lack of understanding of the music. take it from someone who's followed this stuff religiously for damn near 20 years... you don't know squat.

'rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live' ~krs one

if you think that the artists you favour would share your opinion on this matter, you'd have another thing coming. Rappers like Guru & Del, they recognise the role that the chart-topping rappers play in the culture. You don't have to hate one to love the other, it's all part of the same movement.

[SLOW DJS]

Excellent point by Wood, but on a brighter note, heres a phat true skool hip-hop mix feat. many of the artists you people talked about in this thread, good cuts and good mixes, give it a listen.

ftp ip:mchammered.nailed.org or ftp.mchammered.com/uploads/s.l.o.w deejays/rainy daze