Final scratch?

[decypher]

What are your views on DJ's using final scratch(or the rane equivalent) to play out music(downloaded or ripped)? Would you prefer labels release cd's for people to buy a bunch of tracks to play out on CDJ's? Or are you strickly a vinyl must.

[~god~]

vinyl must.

We're buying our final skratch by the end of this month ;)

[tvmann]

CDs, downloads, vinyl - all good. It's about the music.

Running Traktor 2.53. Testing 2.6 which is the same software as the new Final Scratch.

[FireWire]

I love the idea of Final Scratch.

Use it if you want to, it's good.

No one cares about what medium you use these days... as long as your music is good - that's all that matters.

[decypher]

There is the whole supporting the artist debate. But when big names like Jazzy Jeff and craze use FS or serato, hmmmm.

I'm seriously thinking about getting final scratch so that i can mix other forms of music, just cuz i dont have the money to go buy a million records. i'm still gonna buy all DNB vinyl though, just cuz its my preferred style and i like giving back to the producers to keep the music alive.

[DefJef]

Originally Posted by decypher

There is the whole supporting the artist debate. But when big names like Jazzy Jeff and craze use FS or serato, hmmmm.

I'm seriously thinking about getting final scratch so that i can mix other forms of music, just cuz i dont have the money to go buy a million records. i'm still gonna buy all DNB vinyl though, just cuz its my preferred style and i like giving back to the producers to keep the music alive.

Thats what i plan on doing..

I think its pretty hard and $$$$ to collect more than one genre if this isnt your full time thing... As for me, Ill always buy trance on vinyl, but use final scratch to fool around with breaks/house/speed garage/whatever just so Im not limited to what vinyls I can buy any given month.

[CharlieTuna]

Originally Posted by FireWire

No one cares about what medium you use these days... as long as your music is good - that's all that matters.

Thank you. exactly. That and paying for your music, be it vinyl or legal downloads.

[decypher]

I think if labels wanna keep up with the technology they should sell high quality wav download's or CD's for DJ's to play out as they wish..

[P.A.R.T.Y]

I saw Final Scratch 1.0 at Tom lee for like $599. The night before, I was at Believe (redroom) and saw Rane scratch in action. My conclusion, I think that Final/Rane Scratch are both nice interface for a DJ. I think Rane scratch crashed once during Believe.
As a Dj, I feel kinda proud of my records. For sure I would use CD for certain tracks, but isn't vinyl the best medium for a DJ. The quality is outstanding and the vinyl cracks on older classics give a real nostalgic feel to the night.
Ok, sure you could record your tracks 44.1/24bit and then play them back and then sell them. This is the approach Nikki Delgato is going to employ. As for me, I'm sticking with vinyl. Call me an analog purist, but when cd decks came out, you didn't see all the dj's switching to CD. Plain and simple, the records in your bag are hands on, much like and analog synth is hands on. We are moving into a much more automated unoriginal society, these softwate/hardware times are getting a bit much for this guy.

[ebbomega]

I saw a show once with Final Scratch that wasn't Richie Hawtin and it wasn't that good.

Overrated, imho.

[(val)Liam]

I remember watching the Linkin Park DVD that came with Meteora and Mr. Hahn was talking about the advent of CDJs because he didn't have to blow a shitload of money on dubplates everytime he wanted to test a sample... Final Scratch would be perfect for DJs that drop samples/scratch while playing in a band but still wanted the vinyl feel...

[oddmud]

I've used it, it's buggy. If your needles aren't perfect, and the plates in good condition you get skippy skippy going on. So it's got to be improved.But that being said, I really enjoyed using it though. I'd even consider buying it, but I don't own a laptop, so thats out of the question.

[dj_soo]

I think final scratch is great but if you're getting it so you can avoid buying tracks, that's total bullshit.

Buy the tracks on CD or from an MP3 store and play them out all you want. Don't play shit you downloaded from SoulSeek or your friend's CDs though. Especially if you're playing electronic or underground tunes of which most of the artists aren't exactly getting rich.

However, if you want to rip off Top40 and spin it out - I couldn't really care less.

[decypher]

^^ haha exactly my thoughts.

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by mofo-x

I think final scratch is great but if you're getting it so you can avoid buying tracks, that's total bullshit.

Buy the tracks on CD or from an MP3 store and play them out all you want. Don't play shit you downloaded from SoulSeek or your friend's CDs though. Especially if you're playing electronic or underground tunes of which most of the artists aren't exactly getting rich.

However, if you want to rip off Top40 and spin it out - I couldn't really care less.

P2P is free advertising... like a huge audio tape pool... and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are a lot of artists that got noticed through online word of mouth... wouldn't be surprised either if a lot of those artist would still be in their bedrooms if that online word of mouth wasn't there... 99% of the music I know and love today I discovered through P2P... and if that popularity generated helps those artists get booked for live shows, it probably does a lot to make up for whatever money they were "losing" for their albums being free...

maybe I'm wrong, but I'd give my left nut for a internet leak of my music, and I'd probably shit my pants if I heard a dj drop one of my tracks at a show/party...

[oddmud]

Originally Posted by mofo-x

Buy the tracks on CD or from an MP3 store and play them out all you want. Don't play shit you downloaded from SoulSeek or your friend's CDs though. Especially if you're playing electronic or underground tunes of which most of the artists aren't exactly getting rich.

I hope it's not about ripping off tracks. I personally like the idea of digital format. I can shop from home, I don't have to wait for shipping, It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying vinyl.

But I still love my vinyl.

[oddmud]

Originally Posted by Liam

P2P is free advertising... like a huge audio tape pool... and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are a lot of artists that got noticed through online word of mouth... wouldn't be surprised either if a lot of those artist would still be in their bedrooms if that online word of mouth wasn't there... 99% of the music I know and love today I discovered through P2P... and if that popularity generated helps those artists get booked for live shows, it probably does a lot to make up for whatever money they were "losing" for their albums being free...

maybe I'm wrong, but I'd give my left nut for a internet leak of my music, and I'd probably shit my pants if I heard a dj drop one of my tracks at a show/party...

Liam.

Thats the pipedream. In the electronic music business (where there is barely enough money to go around) It's a complete sin to share tracks of the independant artists. It should also be the choice of the ARTIST as to how it gets out to the public. If your case is true, artists would be making MP3 P2P tracks for just that purpose. Don't steal their other stuff.

Plus if you think some big name dj is just going to drop one of your tracks cause they found it on a P2P. You're kidding yourself.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Liam

maybe I'm wrong, but I'd give my left nut for a internet leak of my music, and I'd probably shit my pants if I heard a dj drop one of my tracks at a show/party...

you're wrong. it's one thing to download something you intend to buy at a later date, but it's absolute bullshit to rip off tracks from people who spend a lot of fucking work making these tracks.

I'm sure as an amateur producer you'd be overjoyed if someone ripped a cd of a tune you gave your friend and spread it all over the internet but I'm sure you'd feel completely different about it if your tune was signed to a label and the sales from that record translated to a big part of your income.

I like the idea of the digital format, but some people want to get these tools for all the wrong reasons.

Final Scratch is great for producers who don't want to press dubs or hate using CDJs, great for DJs who want their full collection available without breaking their back carrying records and it's great for people who want to make custom scratch loops and stuff, but I've heard *waaaay* too many djs just spout off and say "I want Final Scratch! It would be awesome cause then I wouldn't have to buy anymore records and just download all my tunes!"

If you're a bedroom DJ and don't ever intend to spin out, it's not quite so bad (but you should still support your artists) but playing out with pirated tunes is total and utter crap.

[angst]

WITHOUT THE ARTIST'S PERMISSION, IT IS WRONG TO ACQUIRE MUSIC TO PLAY OUT THAT HASN'T BEEN PAID FOR. PERIOD

Nobody said DJing was supposed to be cheap, so quit ripping off artists so you can save a buck. Like influenza said, there's barely enough money as it is. The industry is hurting right now and people playing illegal rips and DLs is only gonna continue to stiffle an already declining industry.

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by mofo-x

you're wrong. it's one thing to download something you intend to buy at a later date, but it's absolute bullshit to rip off tracks from people who spend a lot of fucking work making these tracks.

I'm sure as an amateur producer you'd be overjoyed if someone ripped a cd of a tune you gave your friend and spread it all over the internet but I'm sure you'd feel completely different about it if your tune was signed to a label and the sales from that record translated to a big part of your income.

I can only really speak for myself when I say this, but I'm going to be writing music regardless of who or who doesn't listen to it or how much money its worth... thats why an internet leak would be so great, because then other would be enjoying something that I've created, and MAYBE that might attract a few certain people that could book me up for gigs and whatnot... maybe I'm an idealist... but at the end of the day, I put effort and work into my tracks so I MYSELF enjoy them... if others like them, awesome!

influenza... I actually had the idea of being in a small chill room in a hole in the wall club in mind when I said that...

as for the ethics of downloading, do I feel guilty for downloading? no... because I know that if p2p downloading wasn't around, I wouldn't know any of these artists in the first place... hard to "support" the scene if you don't know it exists...

edit: I don't dj

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Liam

I can only really speak for myself when I say this, but I'm going to be writing music regardless of who or who doesn't listen to it or how much money its worth... thats why an internet leak would be so great, because then other would be enjoying something that I've created, and MAYBE that might attract a few certain people that could book me up for gigs and whatnot... maybe I'm an idealist... but at the end of the day, I put effort and work into my tracks so I MYSELF enjoy them... if others like them, awesome!

influenza... I actually had the idea of being in a small chill room in a hole in the wall club in mind when I said that...

as for the ethics of downloading, do I feel guilty for downloading? no... because I know that if p2p downloading wasn't around, I wouldn't know any of these artists in the first place... hard to "support" the scene if you don't know it exists...

edit: I don't dj

Fine put up all your tunes on the internet and let them spread - just don't try to justify stealing other people's music *espcially* from people that have dedicated their livelyhood to producing tracks from a declining non-big money scene. If people want to use P2P as advertising, it's their perogative - but to somehow think that all independant artists should be happy to have their music being stolen cause it "gets their name out" is just utterly wrong.

Although a number of people probably do start buying tunes from artists they found on P2P networks, I can almost guarentee that the people that just take and take and never give those artists a dime is a much higher proportion.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by mofo-x

I can almost guarentee that the people that just take and take and never give those artists a dime is a much higher proportion.

those are the people who wouldn't buy anything in the first place.
atleast now they are promoting their music.


this p2p bullshit is old talk. I think its somewhat healthy.

back to final skratch...
I'm getting mine next week :D

[(val)Liam]

I wonder how many artists owe their success to audio tape swapping before p2p came out...

for the musicians I know and love, I make the effort to go to the shows if they're in town and purchase the extra merchandise (3/4 of my wardrobe is made of music t-shirts)... most of which I would have never discovered if p2p wasn't around... thats "support" they would have missed out on if I don't know about them in the first place... CDs aren't the only source of revenue...

I'll probably drop the argument here... nobody's going to change their opinions at this point on either side...

[Tayfoon]

FYI:
If an artist makes a track and it gets leaked before its signed, it is nearly impossible for it to get signed later on

[Sykonee]

Originally Posted by Liam

as for the ethics of downloading, do I feel guilty for downloading? no... because I know that if p2p downloading wasn't around, I wouldn't know any of these artists in the first place... hard to "support" the scene if you don't know it exists...

Not to be a nag, but whatever happened to good ol' diggin'?

Pretty much every artist I've ever come across has been from digging through walls and walls of CDs (no, I don't buy vinyl. I've made my bed with CDs a long time ago and that's expensive enough as it is. Delving into the black crack would be ridiculously costly as well, and I know once I start, I'll never be able to stop. Anyway, enough of this. Let's get on with it). To this day I still go this route. Nothing is a bigger thrill for me than to go into a used CD shop and spend an entire afternoon going through the material, coming away with some obscure gem I'd never heard of before -and not always EDM either.

When I jumped on the downloading bandwagon, it was to find obscure remixes and b-sides that I knew existed but could never find through conventional means -that is, until I discovered Discogs. These days, I rarely download. It's just not as fun, to be honest, and I never did stumble across some new, exciting artist I'd never heard before from P2P.

I s'pose there's the funds issue. I guess for some it does play a factor but I've always budgeted myself accordingly to indulge in some new monthly sonic nacartic.

Call me an old timer if one must. I just prefer hands-on diggin' rather than downloading to discover new artists.