musically un-educated minions of mindless drivel.

[Akeel]

People that dont understand the hard work and practice that goes into turntablism or any other aspect of dj'ing BESIDES beatmatching and therefore think it sucks.

People that dont understand any other type of music other then Pete Tong's latest essential mix and therefore think anything else thats different is whack.

You people annoy the fuck out of me. please stay out home with your club ibiza cd's.

[soma]

beat matching is like keepin your car on the road.

theres a huge world of driving to learn on top of that before you can step in to the F1 racer. I hear ya dood.

educate the uneducated

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by Akeel

People that dont understand the hard work and practice that goes into turntablism or any other aspect of dj'ing BESIDES beatmatching and therefore think it sucks.

People that dont understand any other type of music other then Pete Tong's latest essential mix and therefore think anything else thats different is whack.

You people annoy the fuck out of me. please stay out home with your club ibiza cd's.

Are you speaking of those that are whining about Swamp? Hahahahahha...

You peeps can learn something from dudes like Akeel and Soma... I learn something new from people like this that have been DJ'ing forever every day!

As far as scratching goes... I wish I had the time, patience and the talent to learn!

[Akeel]

^
that set it off, Swamp's was doing some unreal shit as was Mat the Alien and Spence (fka: DJ Slim).

These are some amazingly talented individuals but some people just dont get it.

c'est la vie.

[bob]

Originally Posted by Akeel

^
that set it off, Swamp's was doing some unreal shit as was Mat the Alien and Spence (fka: DJ Slim).

These are some amazingly talented individuals but some people just dont get it.

c'est la vie.

one thing about being a successful talented artist is being able to acknowledge and give their audience what they want.

personally, if i went to a club to dance, i would wanna hear music that makes me wanna dance. not some dj trying to prove to the world that he can turn a knob better than someone else.

yea it's sad that a dj has to be a crowd pleaser in order to get the crowd going. HOWEVER, the dj should be aware of when he is playing infront of a nation of mindless zombie ravers, and when he's playing infront of a panel of american rave-dj idol judges...

no offense akeel, i know it's frustrating for you... i'm sure swamp rocked it.

[Akeel]

Originally Posted by bob

one thing about being a successful talented artist is being able to acknowledge and give their audience what they want.

personally, if i went to a club to dance, i would wanna hear music that makes me wanna dance. not some dj trying to prove to the world that he can turn a knob better than someone else.

yea it's sad that a dj has to be a crowd pleaser in order to get the crowd going. HOWEVER, the dj should be aware of when he is playing infront of a nation of mindless zombie ravers, and when he's playing infront of a panel of american rave-dj idol judges...

no offense akeel, i know it's frustrating for you... i'm sure swamp rocked it.

true enough, bob. but i think people should be aware when they go see someone like swamp that he wont be playing top 40 vocal diva house.

[bob]

Originally Posted by Akeel

true enough, bob. but i think people should be aware when they go see someone like swamp that he wont be playing top 40 vocal diva house.

take into account how many people just heard the name "Swamp" and went to see him because it's the cool thing to do or maybe they heard their buddy going off about swamp before. take into account how many people just showed up at the door drunk and said what the hell let's go in... like it's friday night man, what do you care more about? the dj or the girl taking her shirt off infront of the dj?

[Akeel]

tell em to go to the hozone!

[DJ Ponz]

The problem you speak of Akeel is elitism. People feel like they need to fit into one EDM genre - especially the younger peeps I think - and thus think that everything else is pish. There was a period when I thought funky house was the gutter of techno - some sort of neo-disco renaissance - and I would rather have gnawed my arm off than gone to see Cox spin that crap. But as it turned out, Cox blew my mind, and a gained an appreciation for it. I still struggle with breaks.

My point is that people have a hard time opening up their minds to other genres - and further, they can't see the skill and hard work that is associated with spinning it. The result is elitism - perhaps a reflection of the scene's imaturity.

[Akeel]

^
no.

the problem is called ignorance. People don't like anything that isnt spoon fed to them through some form of mass media. Despite the fact that the electronica as a whole is not mainstream top40 hippity hop, it still has degrees of familiarity to the consumer. Crowds enjoy the familiar...anything thats brand new will gain popularity only by being driven into their small brains.

perfect example...britney spears "toxic"

[ppcock]

Originally Posted by soma

beat matching is like keepin your car on the road.

theres a huge world of driving to learn on top of that before you can step in to the F1 racer. I hear ya dood.

educate the uneducated

sometimes when you go off beat.. you could make some incredible stuff.

depends on the genre you're spinning.


but if its a total trainwreck.. then yes, that's fucking stupid.

[Akeel]

^
more specifically i think you mean beatmatching with diff patterns as opposed to just matching the kick and snare

[ppcock]

THAT'S THE ONE AKEEL


Thanks for helping me out while im trying to sober up. want some hugs?

[Akeel]

Originally Posted by ppcock

THAT'S THE ONE AKEEL


Thanks for helping me out while im trying to sober up. want some hugs?

yes.

yes i do.

[Séguin]

Turntablism takes MAD skill

[DJ Ponz]

^ No ;)

Elitism is the manifestation of ignorance.

Whites are elitest to First Nations because of ignorance
Europeans are elitest toward Americans because of ignorance
Ontarians are elitest to BC because of ignorance
Kits yuppies are elitest to the Eastside because of ignorance
Trance lovers are elitest to anyone else cause of ignorance.

Catching my drift here?

[Akeel]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

^ No ;)

Elitism is the manifestation of ignorance.

Whites are elitest to First Nations because of ignorance
Europeans are elitest toward Americans because of ignorance
Ontarians are elitest to BC because of ignorance
Kits yuppies are elitest to the Eastside because of ignorance
Trance lovers are elitest to anyone else cause of ignorance.

Catching my drift here?

i see what you're saying. but its wrong. and here's why. now get a pen and right this down so you remember it better :)

Having no aformentioned knowledge of any music, race (or what have you) cannot constitute elitism because there is no knowledge that can equate to the basis for that elitism. Its just igorance. Just because you're unaware does not make you elite.

it makes you ignorant...or to phrase it differently...a shithead.

The reasoning you're using is the same kind of nonsensical rhetoric you see on racist message boards.

[MC Hammered]

Now... now...

Lets all get along and go listen to some trance OK?

[trance4life]

hell ya winston!

[DJ Ponz]

Originally Posted by Akeel

The reasoning you're using is the same kind of nonsensical rhetoric you see on racist message boards.

The reasoning I'm using is direct from Edward Said's "Orientalism" in which he argues that one can understand the 'self' through witnessing and judging the 'other'. Said talked about Europe's ability to write, map and, in literal terms, "create" the Orient in their minds. They are this, and thus we are that - and it's the basis, as I think you're saying, of racial discourse today. Europeans saw the Orient as a place where things were done differently, backwardly if you like, and thus the "wrong" way. A judgement indeed! The Orient then, so Said argues, was inferior in the minds of Europeans, and subject to correction through imperialism. This is the start of Eurocentrism and racial elitism.

So too, people in everyday life see others and judge them according to themselves. And this is the stretch :) : people who don't like a particular genre of electronica judge others who do like it - with bias and ignorance - claiming that they're backward and, to use the vernacular, crappy! So I think it does boil down to elitism - through the process metioned above.
I could be wrong, but who am I to argue with 30 years of cultural theory?

[Akeel]

You must be a history major.

i'm beginning to like you because your reply was the most engaging thing i have read in a while :) but i still think you're wrong. And its a shame that this discussion is over something as trivial as musical preferences.

Just because something is old, doesnt mean its good...or in this case a valid analysis of my initial topic.

Eurocentrism and racial elitism have nothing to do with (or at least not a significant part worthy of any mention) to un-educated (electronica wise) club-goers. What you have done is overanalyzed and taken a broad context theory that explains european imperialism and thrust it upon a small social counterculture at best. In addition, that theory comprises of two large dominant racially segrated groups. I'm talking about a small community only fractured by BPM and how many times the kick drum hits. This counterculture crosses age and racial boundaries, yet you're saying that its stigmatized by a form of discrimination based on different musical genres?

No way does elitism derive from ignorance in this format because the ignorant in this case have not taken the time nor put in any effort to understand that which is different. In Said's theory there is a direct comparison made between the Orient and European culture. In what i'm talking about its merely the lack of exposure and understanding and respect.

example: I had so many people talk to me while i was watching swamp because they had no clue what he was doing...all they could see was him moving his hands around really fast. There was maybe a handful of people that understand what was actually going on and the technical prowess it required.

*edit*
check out stormfront, you'll see a lot of the same eurocentric based theories on the superiority of the white race over others because of "not understanding that which is different."

booyah.

[.anya]

^...but then again akeel's original post wasn't really about people being elitist towards different genres of music. i understood it more as, 'lots of people come out to shows and judge a dj based on criteria which is not really valid, because they do not no any better' (i could be wrong in my interpretation).
i agree with this, more or less. i don't really think its something that will be changed though, because in any practice, the masses do not usually make an effort to learn more about what going into that practice (i dont think that that's necessarily a fault, just a general observation).

that is not to say that i dont agree with what you said above. E.Said has some valid points, and yes, i believe that elitism is OFTEN the manifestation of ignorance, but by no means always. i guess i don't know enough to argue about the beginning of Eurocentrism or racial elitism, but i think that a lot more than just ignorance (ex. greed, power, status) went into their origins.

Edit: Ahh okay that was at DJ Ponz but then there's already a reply. so mueh.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

^ No ;)

Elitism is the manifestation of ignorance.

Whites are elitest to First Nations because of ignorance
Europeans are elitest toward Americans because of ignorance
Ontarians are elitest to BC because of ignorance
Kits yuppies are elitest to the Eastside because of ignorance
Trance lovers are elitest to anyone else cause of ignorance.

Catching my drift here?

^^^^
Ingnorance.

[DJ Ponz]

Ahhh well. I tried. You're right, it is a bit of a stretch, but I do think people fear difference to the point of obsurdity.

Said's work can help us on two levels: A) understanding current perceptions of the Orient by studying the citational chain of historical representation. B) understanding, at the personal level, why we think the way we do about 'others'. Its the second one that really hits home for me cause' there was a point in my life when I accepted a reality that was a result of my experiences, upbringing, socialization through schools and media...... And then it dawned on me, with the help of Said, that I am who I am, I think the way I think, because of everything I have been told/seen. That was no good, so I wiped the slate clean! I had no real idea who Asians, African Americans, Arabs or even Caucasians were. Try building up from that - "everything you think you know is wrong, or partially wrong!" And at that point, nothing was right. I think the vast majority of people in this world don't ever go through that realization and are happy enough not to. Because of this, people refuse to expose themselves - I mean really think about seriously - people, culture and for our purposes, ART. There is thus an ignorance - at least surficially - about 'different' things, and because they don't care to know any different, or are happy enough thinking what they know is right, they don't give it a chance. Judgement time! And that friend, is elitism. At least to me.

PS - I study culturally sustainable tourism development, but I did my undergrad in geography. Whod'a thought?

Peace

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by DJ Ponz

Ahhh well. I tried. You're right, it is a bit of a stretch, but I do think people fear difference to the point of obsurdity.

Said's work can help us on two levels: A) understanding current perceptions of the Orient by studying the citational chain of historical representation. B) understanding, at the personal level, why we think the way we do about 'others'. Its the second one that really hits home for me cause' there was a point in my life when I accepted a reality that was a result of my experiences, upbringing, socialization through schools and media...... And then it dawned on me, with the help of Said, that I am who I am, I think the way I think, because of everything I have been told/seen. That was no good, so I wiped the slate clean! I had no real idea who Asians, African Americans, Arabs or even Caucasians were. Try building up from that - "everything you think you know is wrong, or partially wrong!" And at that point, nothing was right. I think the vast majority of people in this world don't ever go through that realization and are happy enough not to. Because of this, people refuse to expose themselves - I mean really think about seriously - people, culture and for our purposes, ART. There is thus an ignorance - at least surficially - about 'different' things, and because they don't care to know any different, or are happy enough thinking what they know is right, they don't give it a chance. Judgement time! And that friend, is elitism. At least to me.

PS - I study culturally sustainable tourism development, but I did my undergrad in geography. Whod'a thought?

Peace

Are you not making a judgement?

"happy enough thinking what they know is right"

Who are you to tell them any different? Maybe they are right. Should they conform to your way of thinking?

Your arguments come straight from the pages of psilocybin logic. Cut down on the hallucinogens.