eff xmas

[ebbomega]

jeez. thanks. but if i spent my christmas with my family i'd get fired.

it doesn't matter when you guys celebrate, just make sure that you spend at least some relaxing social time with family this time of the year. that seems to be the only thing all these different religions seem to agree on.

[fable]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

North American culture is fucked,youre all so shallow and moronic to set aside certain days of the year that are supposed to be for family and helping those in need.DO IT 365 DAYS A YEAR,dont sit there and fucking whine about how rude or selfish people are being at this time of year,youre like this the other 364 days of the year so why should anything change?People need to start realizing that x-maz means fuck all,its a pagan holiday thats a retailers dream and all you dumbasses buy into it.So shame on all of you for being selfish and stupid.Dedicate your life to giving and being with family,dont set aside days to do so.

shmucks.

GO HAVE A DRINK....OR TEN!

[mugsy]

Originally Posted by Jingles

You can say that now because you aren't one and your perspective has changed

Kids are still good, they are still the product of the parents that raise them

ehhh. i've been working with kids - and at some points - younger peers for 7 years this coming summer, and on average i find the behavior, habits and demands are all getting progressively worse. i know there were kids just as bad and badder when i was in that age group, but this is on a whole other level.
kids are sponges yes, and they are usually a reflection of what is around them.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

North American culture is fucked,youre all so shallow and moronic to set aside certain days of the year that are supposed to be for family and helping those in need.DO IT 365 DAYS A YEAR,dont sit there and fucking whine about how rude or selfish people are being at this time of year,youre like this the other 364 days of the year so why should anything change?People need to start realizing that x-maz means fuck all,its a pagan holiday thats a retailers dream and all you dumbasses buy into it.So shame on all of you for being selfish and stupid.Dedicate your life to giving and being with family,dont set aside days to do so.

shmucks.

From what I've seen out of you, you're a hag 24/7/365 so maybe you should practice what you preach and keep your bah humbugging to yourself ;)

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

jeez. thanks. but if i spent my christmas with my family i'd get fired.

it doesn't matter when you guys celebrate, just make sure that you spend at least some relaxing social time with family this time of the year. that seems to be the only thing all these different religions seem to agree on.

yeah but i think you missed my point.Religions+this time of year=not so much.
well maybe if youre jewish then yeah but any other religion ah no,that includes Christianity.

What my point is,people should stop being so stupid and selfish and stop setting aside just *one* day a year to family saying its in the name of jesus when he has f-all to do with x-maz.Its a retailers holiday just like Valentines day and any other holiday aside from Remberance day and like Canada day.
Same goes with helping people in need,make it something you do the other 364 days a year as opposed to just one day a year...or dont even do it at all.
People help people in need at this time of year not because they care but because they feel obligated to,where are they the other 364 days a year???Not helping thats for damn sure.

and cdn_boarder,im not a hag.Im a really nice person that stands firm in her convictions.You wouldnt sit there and call me a hag if you werent guilty of the above noted things.So ease up and take into consideration what ive said and maybe do a little bit of research about x-maz.I think until youve done so you might wanna bite your tongue or else you`ll be suffering from the foot in mouth disease;)

Im done.

[miss.myra]

People generally won't do something the other 364 days of the year to help, and I don't think that's a realisitic expectation. What are YOU doing the other 364 days of the year to help people out?


My point really is that this time of year, it's not worth it to get stressed out and take it out on whoever crosses your path. I can't handle how crazy some people get. That's the only part that bothers me.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

People generally won't do something the other 364 days of the year to help, and I don't think that's a realisitic expectation. What are YOU doing the other 364 days of the year to help people out?


My point really is that this time of year, it's not worth it to get stressed out and take it out on whoever crosses your path. I can't handle how crazy some people get. That's the only part that bothers me.

my family&i do countless things for various different charitys and individual people.Its actually kinda nuts what my family&I have done for people that were in need,but those nutty things are the most memorable.

aaaaaaaaaaanyways...........

Giving more and expecting less isnt unrealistic,its just undesirable because people are selfish and more concerned with thier well being as opposed to the people around them.And thats what pisses me off and makes me ashamed to be a part of the society in which we live.

[esoter1c]

Everything post 9/11 sucks.

[fable]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

yeah but i think you missed my point.Religions+this time of year=not so much.
well maybe if youre jewish then yeah but any other religion ah no,that includes Christianity.

What my point is,people should stop being so stupid and selfish and stop setting aside just *one* day a year to family saying its in the name of jesus when he has f-all to do with x-maz.Its a retailers holiday just like Valentines day and any other holiday aside from Remberance day and like Canada day.
Same goes with helping people in need,make it something you do the other 364 days a year as opposed to just one day a year...or dont even do it at all.
People help people in need at this time of year not because they care but because they feel obligated to,where are they the other 364 days a year???Not helping thats for damn sure.

and cdn_boarder,im not a hag.Im a really nice person that stands firm in her convictions.You wouldnt sit there and call me a hag if you werent guilty of the above noted things.So ease up and take into consideration what ive said and maybe do a little bit of research about x-maz.I think until youve done so you might wanna bite your tongue or else you`ll be suffering from the foot in mouth disease;)

Im done.

at the surface level your making some huge assumptions, but realistically your actaully pretty close to the truth. :(

[fable]

Giving more and expecting less isnt unrealistic,its just undesirable because people are selfish and more concerned with thier well being as opposed to the people around them.And thats what pisses me off and makes me ashamed to be a part of the society in which we live.

A "strong sense of self" was artifically turned into "hyper individuality". Why? Because its easier to control/manipulate/oppress individuals.

Celebrity idolization doesnt help.
Injections of unresearched nationalism definetly doesnt help.

Getting people to understand and believe that one can hold onto a strong sense of self AND understand that our individual achievments mean fuck all if we dont put them into the context of the greater good, is the challenge of all challenges!!

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

my family&i do countless things for various different charitys and individual people.Its actually kinda nuts what my family&I have done for people that were in need,but those nutty things are the most memorable.

aaaaaaaaaaanyways...........

Giving more and expecting less isnt unrealistic,its just undesirable because people are selfish and more concerned with thier well being as opposed to the people around them.And thats what pisses me off and makes me ashamed to be a part of the society in which we live.

What makes you think you're in any position to assume this about every single person in western society, save yourself? A lot of people out there are doing good things everyday which they do because they want to, not because on some level it puts them above the world. I see your point and it's not that I disagree, I just don't see why you have to make yourself look better and everyone else look worse by making gross generalizations every step of the way.

[(val)Liam]

funny how stressed and frustrated people get in their pursuit for happiness this time of the year, to find the end didn't justify the means...

just once I'd like to see people relax and not worry about getting people presents...

[charly]

^ people always get so caught up in having the perfect christmas, that i think they just sort of ruin it for themselves. christmas isn't about having the perfect marthastewartish dining spread.

this is something that i've come to appreciate about my family. the only thing i ever see my mother going a little nutso with is baking, but it's something she enjoys, not something that stresses her out. she doesn't stress. if something doesn't get done, then no big deal. our christmases may not be hallmark card picture perfect, but they're enjoyable and memorable.

people need to chill a bit, enjoy themselves and appreciate your family while they're still around.

[(val)Liam]

also... not a lot of people know what they want, but they still have expectations... and thats another big challenge of christmas, is not just getting the gift, but "knowing" what they want without them telling you...

christmas is great for kids... but when you get older it looses its magic... people just need to accept this instead of going into a frenzy that, in the end, isn't worth it...

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

yeah but i think you missed my point.Religions+this time of year=not so much.
well maybe if youre jewish then yeah but any other religion ah no,that includes Christianity.

wow. you really don't know much about religion.

i know plenty of christian families that spend christmas together. mine included.

you're missing my point. religion is about gathering, about rituals together. and christmas is the perfect time to do it with the people that mean the most to you. but whatever. saying any one religion is better than any other (and saying that jews are the only ones that have it right) is fucking conceited bullshit.

What my point is,people should stop being so stupid and selfish and stop setting aside just *one* day a year to family saying its in the name of jesus when he has f-all to do with x-maz.Its a retailers holiday just like Valentines day and any other holiday aside from Remberance day and like Canada day.

you're backpedalling. first you're all 'be nice to everybody all year' now you're jumping on the 'spend time with people this time of year' bandwagon. sheesh.

and it's only a retailer's holiday if you make it one. have the creativity to get things for other people that don't necessarily involve retail. as is cliche, it's the thought that counts.

Same goes with helping people in need,make it something you do the other 364 days a year as opposed to just one day a year...or dont even do it at all.
People help people in need at this time of year not because they care but because they feel obligated to,where are they the other 364 days a year???Not helping thats for damn sure.

actually, no, they're in need because it's the winter, and in the winter is when they're a shitload colder, hungry, and just generally less sane than the rest of the year. but that's nothing new. one need only read this particular forum to see that people are going crazy this time of year.

and cdn_boarder,im not a hag.Im a really nice person that stands firm in her convictions.You wouldnt sit there and call me a hag if you werent guilty of the above noted things.So ease up and take into consideration what ive said and maybe do a little bit of research about x-maz.I think until youve done so you might wanna bite your tongue or else you`ll be suffering from the foot in mouth disease;)

funny, i was about to give you the same advice

[Cosmos]

christmas these past few years, i agree, has gone down the shitter. a lot of people see the holiday as a time to become brand fucked consumer whores and swipe their credit cards past anything with a price tag. being in a mall instead of a church for most of the season confirms the commercialization of it all. it's not about the xbox, or the ipod and whatever the hell else went out of stock this christmas. it's a time to sit down with family and friends, eat turkey, drink, relax, and thank god for all the shit you have. but with the world in the state it is, i'm not surprised people have lost the true meaning of christmas.

[fable]

and it's only a retailer's holiday if you make it one. have the creativity to get things for other people that don't necessarily involve retail. as is cliche, it's the thought that counts.

i completely agree. If you aint feeling the consumerist bullshit, or the religeous hypocricy, then appropriate christmas!! - for your needs of community, good loving, and spending quality time with friends and family. Why shit on a great opportunity? By taking this approach, we find a less reactionary, productive path to solution.

religion is about gathering, about rituals together.

aka moral finger pointing, scapegoating, and prejudiced based opportunistic lobbying. WOOHOO!!

[Ragga_Wh0re]

i know plenty of christian families that spend christmas together. mine included.

you're missing my point. religion is about gathering, about rituals together. and christmas is the perfect time to do it with the people that mean the most to you. but whatever. saying any one religion is better than any other (and saying that jews are the only ones that have it right) is fucking conceited bullshit.

*bud I didnt say one sect of christianity had it right or was better then the other.Chanukkah or however you spell it has significance as opposed to christmas.Jesus was not born on christmas,its a pagan holiday.The Jesus praising sect of Christianity has fuckkkkkkkkkkkk allllllllllllllllllllll to do with christmas is my point.So dont sit there and put words in my mouth.



you're backpedalling. first you're all 'be nice to everybody all year' now you're jumping on the 'spend time with people this time of year' bandwagon. sheesh.

Ah no,Im saying dont dedicate just one day a year to family dedicate more then that.I come from an Italian family so Im used to spending unlimited amounts of time with my family,I dont think its unrealistic for other ethnicities to do the same.And once again,quit trying to put words in my mouth.

and it's only a retailer's holiday if you make it one. have the creativity to get things for other people that don't necessarily involve retail. as is cliche, it's the thought that counts.

I dont make it a retailers holiday,but even if I do or dont or if you do or dont IT STILL IS!Why?well this goes back to how Jesus wasnt even born on fucking Christmas and theres all this hype to give gifts like the wise men did(which has nothing to do with Christmas because Jesus wasnt even born at this time of year!) So yeah its a ficticious holiday unless youre into paganism.



actually, no, they're in need because it's the winter, and in the winter is when they're a shitload colder, hungry, and just generally less sane than the rest of the year. but that's nothing new. one need only read this particular forum to see that people are going crazy this time of year.

Right,so back to my point.If theyre hurting this time of year what makes you think theyre not hurting the other 364 days a year/Oh yeah thats right they can go and rob peoples crops and shit cuz like crops grow when its not winter right?

What I strongly suggest you do is seek out information that goes against everything youve ever known and keep an open mind while doing so.Also keep an open mind when peoples beleifs dont reflect that of yours.Id appreciate your opinion more if you had actually read info from both sides of the spectrum,weighed out the evidence and facts then based your decison on that.However,you did not.So I will not respect your opinion because its moronic.

Anyways have a happy Pagan Holiday!:)I hope Santa Klaus was good to you.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

What makes you think you're in any position to assume this about every single person in western society, save yourself? A lot of people out there are doing good things everyday which they do because they want to, not because on some level it puts them above the world. I see your point and it's not that I disagree, I just don't see why you have to make yourself look better and everyone else look worse by making gross generalizations every step of the way.

whoa whoa whoa.You asked me a question,I answered it.Dont take my answer and try to use it against me implying that I think im above everyone else because I give a damn about other people.Way off mark lady!

You dont see my point though because if you did you wouldnt say what you had said in the above quoted^.

Look at the society in which we live,its all about convenience.To help others is an incovenience.If you can sit there and argue this point with me then kudos,but I mean really.And it is safe to assume that helping people isnt unrealistic (as you have assumed) as it is more so undesirable...why?Because its an inconvenience.

[cinist]

oh god, take a day off

[-evil-duerr-]

two words

TURKEY !
YUM!

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by fable

aka moral finger pointing, scapegoating, and prejudiced based opportunistic lobbying. WOOHOO!!

That's politics, not religion.

Sadly, politicians have taken over most of the major religions and made it more about population control than about ritual.

But at the core of all religions is fellowship. That's what people SHOULD be taking out of it, IMHO.

[ebbomega]

I'll say one thing, Godessa... use the [ quote ] tags, sometimes it's confusing when it looks like you're using my words as your own.

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

*bud I didnt say one sect of christianity had it right or was better then the other.Chanukkah or however you spell it has significance as opposed to christmas.Jesus was not born on christmas,its a pagan holiday.The Jesus praising sect of Christianity has fuckkkkkkkkkkkk allllllllllllllllllllll to do with christmas is my point.So dont sit there and put words in my mouth.

No, in fact, you said that ALL christians have it wrong and the only ones who have it right are the Jews. Channukah is significant for the same reason Christmas is significant... it has less to do with the actual reason for celebration (like seriously, how many jewish families that celebrate passover have you seen that are really that worried about their firstborn son?) and more to do with the communion of people. Channukah acheives this by holing up for 7 days with your family. Christmas has it by getting the families together at church for midnight mass or Christmas Eve services. But saying this:

Religions+this time of year=not so much.
well maybe if youre jewish then yeah but any other religion ah no,that includes Christianity.

makes it seem like you're claiming that the jews have it figured out but nobody else does.

Ah no,Im saying dont dedicate just one day a year to family dedicate more then that.I come from an Italian family so Im used to spending unlimited amounts of time with my family,I dont think its unrealistic for other ethnicities to do the same.And once again,quit trying to put words in my mouth.

No reason to be a scrooge about it. The thing is that this is a chance to take some time off from the regular hustle-bustle of life and actually enjoy yourself some alone time with your family. And while you may come from a big family that does this all the time, not everybody does. A lot of people are very wrapped up in other aspects of their life that they can't afford to be able to spend large amounts of time with their family. For someone like me who only really has two parents and a Grandmother that are anywhere within a day's travel from me (everybody else is in the midwest states, southern california, toronto and halifax), and where my grandmother is the only one who actually lives in the same city as me, excuses like this where I get to see all the people close to me are fantastic

I dont make it a retailers holiday,but even if I do or dont or if you do or dont IT STILL IS!Why?well this goes back to how Jesus wasnt even born on fucking Christmas and theres all this hype to give gifts like the wise men did(which has nothing to do with Christmas because Jesus wasnt even born at this time of year!) So yeah its a ficticious holiday unless youre into paganism.

You've missed the point again. No, it's not a ficticious holiday. We just DON'T KNOW the exact date of birth of Jesus. So why not just pick a time when people seem to give each other presents anyways. Funny thing is, in the Christian calendar Christmas isn't even the most important date... Easter is (it doesn't take much for a person to be born.... rising from the dead is a little bit bigger, wouldn't you say?)

So why not just choose to celebrate it at a time when people are sharing all of their "gifts" with each other...

Again, the gift-exchanging thing isn't so much a matter of Christmas itself, nor is it really a consumer-driven thing, though the companies definately do cash in where they can (they're corporations and all they care about is money. This isn't so much an unfortunate outcome as it is an unfortunate inevitability) but that's always been true of companies. The point isn't about buying people presents or celebrating some guy 2000 years dead now's birthday as it is about sharing your gifts.

Right,so back to my point.If theyre hurting this time of year what makes you think theyre not hurting the other 364 days a year/Oh yeah thats right they can go and rob peoples crops and shit cuz like crops grow when its not winter right?

Wow. Just fucking wow. How can you be so bloody naive?

No, in the summer time it's warm so the body doesn't need food so much. and people are generally in a better disposition so sharing isn't out of the question. It's a lot easier to sleep under the stars in July than it is in December. Fucking hell, your view of the world is so narrowminded and self-righteous it makes me sick.

What I strongly suggest you do is seek out information that goes against everything youve ever known and keep an open mind while doing so.Also keep an open mind when peoples beleifs dont reflect that of yours.Id appreciate your opinion more if you had actually read info from both sides of the spectrum,weighed out the evidence and facts then based your decison on that.However,you did not.So I will not respect your opinion because its moronic.

Sorry, was there anything to that rant other than just self-righteous rhetoric?

Anyways have a happy Pagan Holiday!:)I hope Santa Klaus was good to you.

Already did. It's called "solstice" and it happens the same time every year: shortest day of the year. It's a celebration of the peak of winter - in the celtic calendar, winter starts nov. 1, when the last harvest (all hallow's eve, the night before Samhaim, or "Hallowe'en" in western culture) finishes and everybody starts trading their wares in preparation for the cold months to come. Then at the height of winter (shortest day of the year) everybody gathers together to share the wares they spent the spring cultivating, the summer allowing to flourish, the autumn to flourish and now the winter to enjoy.

THAT celebration has been happening a lot longer than people even heard about this kid from Bethlehem, or before menorahs became a common winter ritual. And it makes a lot more sense to me than celebrating a bunch of things that have nothing to do with me (IE, some guy who died nearly 2 millenia ago, or some suffering of some people who seem to have an entire identity bassed entirely on the suffering of their people).

[fable]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

That's politics, not religion.

Sadly, politicians have taken over most of the major religions and made it more about population control than about ritual.

But at the core of all religions is fellowship. That's what people SHOULD be taking out of it, IMHO.

Hmmm, i must agree! But in my own opinions religeon took a strong sence of community right into moral bullying. I think this could be a root cause for the current move to hyper individualization as a gut reaction to such moral bullying, in an attempt to exsert some strong sense of self.

If we can practise spirtual beliefs, in a group context, without judgement and or any notion of leadership, rather opting for guidance, then i can support religeon. But historically religeon comes with such a need for instilling "awe" and sometimes "fear" into the common peoples. that the true messages where already convuluted before any "political" direction was invested.

But admittedly im confused and undecided in such avenues, as i look at contemporary moves to secularism and look how much good that brought about - a complete oppositionary etremeist/fundamentalist backlash!

All asides, if people are attracted to religeon for the sole purpose of building community, spirtual guidance, and nourishment for their faith, then all the power to them, these are basic human needs.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by fable

Hmmm, i must agree! But in my own opinions religeon took a strong sence of community right into moral bullying. I think this could be a root cause for the current move to hyper individualization as a gut reaction to such moral bullying, in an attempt to exsert some strong sense of self

I like the word "humanism" a bit better, because it takes into the individuality of the person, but also allows you to be part of a community as well.

If we can practise spirtual beliefs, in a group context, without judgement and or any notion of leadership, rather opting for guidance, then i can support religeon. But historically religeon comes with such a need for instilling "awe" and sometimes "fear" into the common peoples. that the true messages where already convuluted before any "political" direction was invested.

In that case, I highly recommend the religion of weed smoking. While there is still a political hand involved in it (especially since it's technically illegal), it pretty much covers all of the good points of religion: Fellowship, sharing, communing, togetherness... how many hotboxes have you been in where you've felt the need to say: "Everyone in this room is an amazing person"?

But admittedly im confused and undecided in such avenues, as i look at contemporary moves to secularism and look how much good that brought about - a complete oppositionary etremeist/fundamentalist backlash!

This is why I picked discordianism. because it takes secularism into account. Feck, you can be in any religion and still be a discordian. Mainly I ask: Why limit yourself to one set of rituals? You're only limiting your spiritual expansion. Learn as much as you can of different religions, start to learn what the underlying themes that bond them are. When you get caught up on dogmatic debate you stagnate the purpose of religion, which is to learn as much about yourself and the universe and how they interact as possible.

All asides, if people are attracted to religeon for the sole purpose of building community, spirtual guidance, and nourishment for their faith, then all the power to them, these are basic human needs.

It is this reason entirely that religion in general exists. Because it is a basic human need. But people get so caught up in this mythical being that knows all, is omnipotent and judges you based on your actions and dispenses rewards and punishment based on such actions... That's not God, that's Santa Claus.

Have you ever gone to the top of a mountain at high noon on a bright sunny day and just chanted in enochian? Seems so simple, but it can be a pretty empowering experience.